General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe last time a group of Amercians rose up and used their guns to battle the US Government
their motivation was to defend oppression, not liberty. I'm talking about the civil war.
When political and social leaders are assassinated by civilians, they are always the ones that advocate peace and liberty. People like MLK, Lennon, etc.
Seems to me that people who use guns to enact desired social change do so for the sake oppression, and almost never for the sake of liberty.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)coast.
patrice
(47,992 posts)We should have done a Marshall Plan on them like we did (later) in Europe after WWI. Instead what we did to the South after the Civil War was more kind of like the Treaty of Versailles did to Germany, made a bad situation WORSE, and then failed again after WWII had put us into a position of economic ascendency to address Economics:Racism in the South. We failed in that by choosing the Cold War and development of the Military Industrial Complex instead, through President Harry Truman, thus fertilizing differences that were first established by the economic dominance of the North and the Civil War.
Spryguy
(120 posts)Every member of the southern army should have been expelled from the country on pain of death, all property seized and turned over to the freed slaves, and the rest burned to ground. Sherman didn't go far enough with those racist assholes!!!
patrice
(47,992 posts)men and women into Iraq.
Slavery wasn't uncommon in the North either & endentured servitude, practically the same thing.
The War between the North and the South was about ECONOMICS and slavery in a supporting role to that.
What happened was another instance of what Jay Gould later said about how you can always hire half of the poor to kill the other half.
patrice
(47,992 posts)in a People's History of the United States.
patrice
(47,992 posts)madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)taken away and handed over to former slaves as land grants. Just as they were handed out in earlier times.
Reconstruction was a failure, but I don't think a Marshall Plan would have worked. I really think they needed to be Shermanized. Nothing short of Shermanizing them would get rid of the still continuing racism of the South.
patrice
(47,992 posts)see much difference between your attitude and that of these gun-worshipers. It's repugnant.
What should we do about all of the guilt around what we just did to Iraq?
There would have been plenty of people in the South who just got drug along with the economic political and historical inertia of the time. Children? You do little for the claim to Justice inherent to Civil Rights and you damage the minority position by claiming the opportunity to repeat what the oppressor did to them.
You have heard MLK's Dream for ALL races/classes/people?
wow.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)The gun-worshippers or as I refer to them as gun-thumpers/teabaggers are all about the repression of the minorities in this country. That IS repugnant.
What about Iraq? Did you oppose that war also??
My comment about the south was to take the land away from the Slave Owners and hand it over to the the newly freed Slaves. I could not really give a rat's ass about what happened to the WHITE slave owners after the war. Considering that they helped form the KKK and are now known as the Koch brothers and Nixon's Silent Majority and Southern Strategy.
Yes. I Do know who MLK is. My father helped bring him to a conservative northern college just two months before he was assassinated. The racists who ran the college nearly got my dad fired and they did manage to run the other man off the college within a year. YES.. WOW.
Spryguy
(120 posts)150 years later, and the South still oppresses the black man and is dominated by racists tea baggers. Would have been better for the country and humanity to have shermanized them!!!!
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)doc03
(35,382 posts)where in 1921 West Virginia coal miners battled against coal operators.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)but they were not fighting against the US government.
doc03
(35,382 posts)union miners at Blair Mountain.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)and the extremists took away woman's constitutional rights to privacy by killing Dr. Tiller
not to mention the rights of 26 in CT and all the others.
the NRA is a dictatorship tyranny holding hostage most of our timid politicians
their day is coming to an end, but it still will take time
WillyT
(72,631 posts)dhol82
(9,353 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)act in its behalf.
I fear they mistake the slavery of being a reactionary for "individuality" and the notion that none of their desires should have any consequences for freedom.
I think real freedom. Freedom of the mind and heart is pretty uncomfortable for most people, so they protect themselves with categories and pre-defined conclusions that they have been conditioned to call principles. Not that there are no such things as high-order truths that apply to more people, more of the time, in more situations, just that those principles inhere in those factors, so bringing them TO situations artificially, from "authorities" external to the circumstances is more likely a mistake and a violation of the value that we say we put on actual people and their lives/experiences.
subterranean
(3,427 posts)I believe that was the last time a group of Americans used their guns to battle the US government. I think it's pretty clear who the oppressors were there.
patrice
(47,992 posts)else doing similar things for whatever reason, e.g. Waco, TX.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)It wasn't people saying, "We need to rise up and defeat these oppressors." It was, "Oh shit! We're getting shot at right now."
subterranean
(3,427 posts)It was more in self-defense, as you said.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)subterranean
(3,427 posts)As I understand it, the 1973 incident started out as a protest against the tribal president at the time, and developed into a standoff against the federal government.
merrily
(45,251 posts)likely in the hope that they would preserve slavery in this country, perhaps forever.
Even defending oppression is too good a term.
It was greed.
When it comes to cheap labor, slavery has no rival.
But, Americans have taken up arms against their own government in war only twice.
The first time was in 1776; and few Americans quarrel with that today, though plenty of opposition existed then.