that's why a proliferation of guns results in tragedies and that's why we need meaningful gun control

that is sad but hardly surprising.

When I was growing up in Ohio the rich kids clique in my class bragged about shoplifting. The male members had enough money to go to college to avoid the draft during the Vietnam war as they got a deferment. They also bragged about this.

Fortunately I came from a poor family. I wasn't drafted as I chose to join the Air Force and get some practical education which I used as a basis for my lifelong career in electronics.

I'm far from rich today although I am not poor either. I was able to retire when I was 59 and haven't had to consider returning to work eight years later.

I also have never shoplifted.

pretty on the outside but very ugly on the inside. She always cheated in class and bragged about things she took. Wonder if that is a attention getter for rich kids. We were lower middle class family. 6 kids in my family. But dad retired from the Air Force and taught us right from wrong. We would never ever think of stealing. We would be in deep trouble. My oldest brother went to college but he didn't go into the war. He didn't try to avoid the draft. He went in but he was overweight so they turn him down.

The guy probably picked up some bullets, primers and possibly a can of powder and hid them in his jacket. That's all you need to reload cartridge cases if you have some basic reloading equipment. He might have also stolen a Lee Loader which would provide that holds all the tools you need to reload in a compact plastic case.

I lived in the Tampa Bay area for 37 years and since I enjoyed shooting I used to visit a lot of gun stores. In all most all of these stores the clerks and owners carried large caliber pistols in a holster on their belt.

One time out of curiosity I surveyed these gun stores to find if anyone had ever tried to rob them while they were open. Surprisingly most had experienced such attempts. Only one was successful. A clerk was behind the counter when a customer walked up with some items to buy. When the clerk opened the cash drawer to the register, the customer smacked him in the head with a blunt object, stole all the cash out of the register and ran out the door.

The clerk picked himself up and pursued the robber with a Colt .45 pistol in his hand. Fortunately the clerk came to his senses and realized that he would be in a world of trouble with the police if he chased the robber down and shot him as this would not be considered justifiable self defense as the attack had ended. He also realized that if he fired at the robber as he was running and hit an innocent person, he would be liable.

After this incident the gun store put in a secure door system and customers had to be buzzed both in and out.

So gun stores are not the safest place on the planet but most criminals with any intelligence do not attempt to rob them.

But to hear the NRA et al tell it, a gun on the premises is the best way to deter such theft. I've actually been in this particular gun ahop, and I can confirm that there are plenty of guns in evidence, as well as plenty of respnsible gun owners hanging around.

It's not that shoplifting is a statistical near-certainty; it's that pro-gun groups have been singing the praises of The Gun as the unbeatable deterrent. Cases like this one, with broad daylight theft in front of witnesses, sort of call that mantra into question.

has firearms in his house for self defense might deter a smart criminal but many criminals are not that bright. Most gun owners do not wish to advertise the fact that there are firearms in their home because that make it a target when no one is home.

Also you have to be able to get to your firearm if someone enters your home and this may be difficult if you are in the kitchen when a home invader enters your home and your firearm in is the bedroom. I feel that a person may well be excessively paranoid if he carries a handgun with him when he is home but a few actually do this.

I feel it is wise to have layers of security. If you have had good training in firearm safety, are proficient with your chosen self defense weapon and actually could shoot another person if truly necessary than perhaps a firearm might work as the last layer of your security. A good alarm system and perhaps a dog as well as strong doors and adequate locks should be your first layers of security.

The NRA says a lot of stupid things and this is also true of gun control groups such as the Brady campaign and other groups that advocate extremely strong gun control.

Speaking to your "layers of security" comment...

Several people--notably gun owners and dog owners--dismissed the need for an alarm system, presumably because the dog could use the gun to call 911 in the event of a fire, or something.

Anyway, these several posters declared that alarm systems are overpriced, easily breached and ultimately impotent against a determined and experienced burglar. I disagree, but if that's their view then so be it.

I note, however, that the gun shop that was robbed has a security system. Curious, considering the claimed pointlessness of such equipment. Why would a gun shop--the very pinnacle of gun ownership--embrace a failed technology that individual gun owners deride?

Just as you can store your valuables in a top notch safe and given time an experienced safe cracker can break into it.

Hell, you could be a bad guy and live in a walled compound with well trained guards armed with fully automatic weapons and a seal team could take you out.

In most cases a simple layered security system should work well for the average person.

You're asserting that a professional can overcome even a sophisticated security alarm system. This is probably true, for what it's worth, but the average home likely doesn't contain sufficient valuables to justify the expense and effort of such a high-end burglar. If that type of criminal bothered to break into my home, he'd be sorely disappointed at the payoff.

You're also asserting that the many criminals aren't bright enough to avoid homes that keep a gun. Maybe true, maybe not. Certainly that doesn't mesh with the commonly expressed fear that burglars will specifically target a home that's listed on a map of registered gun owners.


But all of that's not really the point. At issue is the claim that guns are the best security system and crime deterrent, coupled with the fact that an apparently non-professional criminal was able to pull off a caper in a gun shop in broad daylight.

If you have the training and proficiency to use a firearm safely it could save you from serious injury or death when all the other layers had failed.

The criminal caper you refer to appears to be simple shoplifting. I don't believe that it is necessary to shoot a shoplifter. He stole $200 of merchandise. The surveillance film has a clear picture of the prep. There's an excellent good that he will be caught.

If I caught a thief in my home with $200 dollars of my stuff in his hands and he turned and ran out the door I would not shoot him.

knowledge of how to use them.

If you do please avoid owning any firearms.

Using a firearm should be reserved for self defense and only for those extremely rare occasions where there is a absolutely no other choice or you will end up in a hospital for a long time or six feet under.

I believe and hope you were just being sarcastic.

of the gun control issue.

Sometimes it has been hard to tell if the posts were serious or sarcasm.

The bottom line is that any since any discussion of shooting another person is very serious and possibly could be misinterpreted it is somewhat helpful to label attempts at humor as such. Of course that is the poster's choice.

...and stationed an armed schoolteacher there for security.

C'mon, where's the love for this guy?

A day without ammo is like a day without sunshine.

Must have needed 'food' for his precious.

One shouldn't have to pay to exercise their right to keep and bear arms.