I think the 8 and 4 position is too low because if you lose power steering, you will lose control of a car.

I also remember when a tire blew out because of ? it was not an old tire, so very unexpected, Holding the wheel higher seemed to let me keep control.

I do take the air bag thing into consideration though, did not think of that danger.

Thanks for the information, good to know.

Years. Take a yearly driving safety course.

I find my left hand at 8:00 and my right hand on the console shifter both comfortable and responsive.

I found it quite disconcerting going from British right hand drive cars to a manual American one - I was used to leaving my right hand on the wheel, which feels much safer than leaving the left hand on it and taking the right hand off (I am right handed). It took quite some time to get used to (not a problem with automatic transmissions, because you only do it when you're stationary). I wonder how someone used to a left hand drive car would feel.

I drove manual transmissions in all environments, because I like them better--but it's a bit of a trick to re-calibrate the brain to shift with right hand instead of left, and vice versa.

I did a fair share of both travelling AND driving in new locations, switching from left to right, so I had the experience of adjusting, and then adjusting back.

It helps if you "know the route" when you first get into the vehicle--then it's "automatic pilot" and you don't have to think so much!

I never had trouble staying on the proper side of the road--my brain was wired to keep the center line closest to "my" side of the car. This only became problematic if I drove an American car in Japan or UK--then I had to "think."

Once you're going, it's OK; the problem is pulling out from a car park, or somewhere else where you're not really on one side or the other, and your brain automatically switches to what you're used to.

Tape an arrow to the dash with masking tape, pointing to the right!

But whenever I've driven on the wrong side, the cars were american, so the car was left hand drive (the driver was close to the curb when driving). Its odd, because the car feels normal, but you have to really think whenever you make a turn since its very easy to get on the wrong side.

It just feels wrong.

Of course, if I grew up that way, it might be a different story.

Until my parents gave me a 3-day racing class for my 18th birthday (seriously, WTF were they thinking!) - right off, the instructor sent me through a chicane with a downshift; right into the gravel. No way can you give the car enough or fast enough input with one hand. It's not just handy for the track, either...I was lucky not to get into any emergency situations needing that kind of maneuvering on the street before I knew better.

To this day it's hands on the side spokes, usually 9-and-three, with a quick smooth stab at whatever controls need to be manipulated and nothing short of Schumacher himself is going to convince me to change that.

And it maes sense actually.

I use the 3 and 9 o'clock because that makes it's easier to access the steering mounted controls.

I have a kid learning right now. What is this? 8 and 4? Come on.

But, that's not quite the same as driving on regular roads

... but I'm sure it's very strange an wonderful.

just like other courses. Your choice of Ferrari (430 or 458), Lambo (Superleggera), Aston Martin Virage, Audi R8 or Nissan GT-R. I've done the latter two. Quite fun!!

I was thinking of something slower, with more back-and-forth rocking motion.

Like Jeeps on a field of boulders.

In Florida, I'd expect the driving to be done naked, except for boots, one driving glove, and a beer in the other hand.

ya see...I have black leather seats....

that also taught to have the hands at 9 and 3. Isn't that the same position professional drivers take, too?

I've been using 9 and 3 for decades now, and find it's the best position when driving in traffic. If traffic is light or sparse, I'll drop to 8 and 4 (or "worse", just 8 )

Oh, and I got into an argument with a coworker some years ago about how 9 and 3 is safer. She simply couldn't accept it, having learned 10 and 2 as if there could be no other possible way.

At least she didn't drive with hands at 11:59 and 12:01...

I hold it at about 7:30 (unless need sharp curves).

(oh, and I only use my right knee when I'm on the interstate and can use my cruise control)

as much as I'd love to be able to use it. Because no one else seems to drive a constant speed. Either they don't have working speedometers, or they have no clue how to drive. I'm guessing the latter

I recall the steering wheel on my father's old MGB was so large that driving by knee was almost involuntary!

"At least she didn't drive with hands at 11:59 and 12:01..." Or with her knee!

And yes, I've been told that 9 and 3 are the positions used by professional drivers. It is supposed to be the optimum position to lock elbows and maintain or regain control of the wheel in an accident. Also, the steering wheel controls are right there. How would I adjust the radio or answer the phone if my hands were in a different position? Lol.

So I'm pretty much a 9 and 3 gal. But on a Sunday afternoon, when there is no traffic, I slip into a lazy 8 and 2 position. (Odd, right?)

so we can re-post here with exact minute and second placements of our hands

I am guilty of knee-driving, too, though I know for a fact that I simply cannot drive a straight line if I have to fiddle with something, like my media-player. It's best to just let that cut (or album) play out until I can stop somewhere, or get a red light. Of course, when I want to use a red light, they never are red

When I returned to the state more than a decade ago, I had to take a road test. Having grown up and taken HS Driver Ed here, I automatically did the 10/2 position--wherepon the tester told me, "we don't require that any more." Once upon a time, they used to deduct points for not using the 10/2.

For what that's worth...

Of course you were driving at 40 mph.

I'm usually more prepared though.

I guess what they say is true... The best comedy is rooted in truth.

With my fingertips.

Driving one of these:



No airbag though.

TRUE story


1968, at the Chevy dealership I apprenticed at. RAINING like all hell in the late spring. TOP OF THE CARRIER (back in the day, not so safe). Dark green Corvette coupe. Driver starts to back down, car slips 1/4 way down the upper ramps, hits the gas, catches, OVER THE TOP up in the air rolls over in mid air and LANDS on the roof middle of the highway. Horrific noise. People scrambling to get the car turned over and get traffic stopped. Guy wasn't seriously hurt but he got taken away and Anchor Motor freight (defunct) in their baby blue transporters came later to pick up their trailer and the 'Vette pushed by a snowplow back into the lot.


Not me.

If they can't, they'll try as hard as they can to maim you. And they do. It happens all the time. Car haul is one of the most, if not THE most dangerous trucking disciplines out there.

At any large auto transport company with a roster of over 100 drivers, the top seniority guys were what we called at one co. (Teamster gig in Mich) "The walking wounded"

Most of the top 20 on the seniority board walked with a limp.

I have broken both thumbs, my right one twice.
Broke my right ankle
Sprained the living hell out of my left, that blew up like a grapefruit. Literally.
Cut my forehead open several times.
Left tufts of hair on an upper deck (I do a much better job of ducking now!)
The fingernail on my left middle finger has just now grown back from a smashing 6 months ago.
Bruised ribs.
Bruises as a matter of course.
Working outside loading and unloading in all types of weather. Put on a load of Fords in Wayne Michigan when the snow was coming down one and a half inches an hour SIDEWAYS

And I have to be behind the wheel at 6:15 in the morning to drive 75 miles to the port of Brunswick to load nine for a 3-way to Punta Gorda, Cape Coral and the Fort Myers Airport.

Luckily it will only be in the 30's when I hit the road.

Nighty night! Drive safe!

(A HERETIC I AM - closing on 1.9 million career miles accident free. 195,000 of those in the last 2 years, 4 months)

I was in the slow lane going the usual five over the speed limit--the guy in the car carrier was in a hellacious hurry. He went around me and "forgot" I was there. I coulda been killled, but I reacted fast and headed for the grassy knoll. I'm pretty sure he was hopped up on something--the statie who turned up at the scene thought so, too.

I did get a new driver's side out of it, and a paint job...but I also aged a few years!

I'm really sorry that sort of thing happened to you, or for that matter, that it happens at all.

The amount of drug use and abuse, be they "whites" (speed) or anything else has really gone down considerably from the days when I started OTR. Pre employment and random drug screening were voluntary on a company's part back then and it wasn't till 89 or 1990 with the full implementation of the CDL nationwide that the majority of drivers began being tested.

The fact is though, some truckers, perhaps way too many, are quite simply assholes.

On behalf of the thousands of professional, competent and courteous car haulers out there, please accept my apology for the behavior of that dickhead.

I am so very glad you werent injured.

I am on the road and posting from my phone ( I have a new hire/trainee doing the driving, so I'm not texting while behind the wheel, I promise) but when I get home on my PC tomorrow, I'll put up a link to this one dumbass car haulers YouTube page. He is a perfect example of a dickhead driver, actually putting up videos of him having an accident in heavy traffic just because he wouldn't fucking lift and let someone into his lane. He has several videos that CLEARLY show him breaking the law, including one where he is pulled over in Virginia because the troopers radar detector detector went off. He had one and was guilty as hell ( radar detectors have been illegal to use in commercial vehicles since the early 1990's) but got away with it because the cops couldn't find the unit in his truck.

It's god damned idiots like that who screw the reputation of an entire industry.

Once again, I'm so very sorry you had that happen to you and I'm really glad you are OK

Years ago as a consequence of my work, I took a "defensive/evasive driving" type course, it was one of these things where they taught ya how to handle weather, oil, funny surfaces, and accidents/people wanting to do you harm; that kind of stuff. The thing they drilled in, over and over, was to always be looking for "the way out" even before anything happens. When the guy hit me, my first thought was "Find the damn way out" so I got away from him as quick as I could.

The guy who hit me was an irresponsible putz, but his company was real stand-up. They didn't screw around, came right out and fixed my car, gave me a rental, didn't argue when the job took longer than expected. The car is a bit of antique, an 86 Pontiac, and now it looks, quite literally, showroom new (at least from the outside--I really need to get a radio, my old "tape player" one has been dead for some time).

I'll admit I'm a bit warier than I used to be when any massive vehicle rolls up near me, but I don't hold it against drivers in general--shit happens; I'm glad no one got hurt, and my old car didn't end up totalled!

You stay safe, now--anyone on the road can be inattentive (as I'm sure you've learned over the years).

The term used by my original instructor was "Look for an out" - same thing.

It is something that should be a habit, but can be difficult to make one unless you are thinking about it regularly. I've found that these days, I almost subconsciously don't put my truck, or my car for that matter, in a position where there is no "out"

The right lane of most stretches of the interstate is perfect for this, obviously because there is generally a breakdown lane or a shoulder of some sort.

Some may think the middle lane of a 3 lane stretch of highway is just as good, but it isn't. What if the truck or the car that is the hazard is coming from the right? The right lane is always better.

I applaud you for taking such a course. I'm quite sure it has made you a better driver.

Below is a link that guys YouTube channel I mentioned. The first video that appears is the one of him getting pulled over by VA SP for the Radar Detector.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ngabell

I found this guys channel about a year or so ago, looked through a few of them and then I watched this video;

All I can say is, you're the one with the good driving record, and this clown puts pics on YOUTUBE of his stupid self HITTING other cars? What is he, nuts? He's certainly stupid!

Someone should send that link to his employers!!!

Yeah, I like that 'way out' thing--I took the course eons ago, back in the early eighties, but I never forgot the lessons, and I'm still here to tell the tale! What I really like best is that they give ya the tools, so you go into "action" mode when something bad starts happening around you, and your mind is kept busy so there's no panicking!

And hey, you should have given me some slack the other day re the shipping container homes, boss. I never hauled the intermodal stuff, just 53' dry vans!

Hope all is well with you My Friend.

Just bustin ya chops, ya local drivin', "I'm home every night neener neener" type!

All is good, my man. Just fine.

Take care, and stay warm up in them thar hills! Two things I miss from California. The mountains and In-N-Out!

OK....3 things....

Broguiere's Eggnog

http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2011/12/los-angeles-top-notch-nog-from-broguieres-farm-fresh-dairy.html

Frickin heaven in a glass bottle!

I called and BEGGED them to over-nite me a case.
They wouldn't.

(Picture a terrier, running in circles, just after you said the words "Wanna go bye bye and get some bacon?" That's me right now!)


Seriously though.......



IS IT STILL ON THE SHELVES?!?!?!?!?!

YES! YES! YES!!! BUY ME SOME!!!


Really. PM me or...text me. I'll pay for it all. I'll frickin Western Union the money.

Quick! Go Now!!! Faster!


Hee hee.






.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Seriously.



Go now.,

I wouldn't take your money... if they have it, it's on me. Just text me where to send it. I'll text you in the morning when I find out.

I'll come out there and pet your cat.

Or clean your gutters.

No.
No I won't, cause then I could just go buy it myself.

What I will do is be indebted to you forever.

Thanks, man!

When I'd drive cross country and eavesdrop on truckers' convos on my CB radio.

Drivers have too many other toys now.

One hand for the cig, and the other for the mic?

But apparently I've been working on it!

One hand for the cig and the other to reach for the coffee cup!

I rarely have the CB On anymore. It's just dumbass Republicans too stupid to know they vote against their own interest.

I've been driving over the road since 1987 and drove in the city of Miami for 3 years before that. I can say with complete confidence and absolutely no reservation that I work in an industry overwhelmingly populated by morons.

Just kidding. Nothing to see here.

8 and 4 for open interstate, country roads, streets without a lot of traffic.

Besides, the same hand position all the time is monotonous.

Every couple minutes, I switch from the radio to the coffee cup.

And knees at 8 and 4!

Works fine when driving from JOCO to KCMO on I-35 at 8am.

That's my route and my time.

...and drinking out of my cell phone!

But always with my knees on 8 and 4...

make sense from the perspective of comfort and sometimes airbag safety, they present a problem during emergency maneuvering since you need to move your hands in the opposite direction that you want the car to go. From that perspective, 9&3 or 10&2 make better sense.

and another subordinate hand, if desired, at 8 or 4. I think my instructor was a bit of a maverick, but it works and feels comfortable.

One thing that position does is leave plenty of clearance for emergency maneuvers. Personally, I would feel handcuffed by the 8-4.

when the airbag goes off.

but sometimes I've got one hand in my pocket And the other one is giving the peace sign...

puttering along in a neighborhood usually gets one hand around 5, driving the automatic through town gets the right at 1 or 4, the manual gets the left at 11 or 7, highway gets 930 and 230.

I just heard about the air bag causing serious injury to head if hands too high recently.

From 16-96 years old, give them room LOL

Also, people who have their wipers on the highest setting during a slight drizzle. Scared and unsure person behind the wheel, give plenty of braking distance

In the right hand lane in a newer Honda...


wait for it....



WITH HER FOUR WAYS ON!


Lady? Since when is driving in perfect conditions an emergency situation?

driving on a bright sunny day when nothing is wrong with her car?

there's even a few channels dedicated to it

The ones who are very vocal about when I should turn, etc. Of course, they've been in numerous accidents and I haven't been in any...

Like a swerving tractor or something. It's an automatic reaction. Otherwise, I gently hold the bottom 5 and 7 or just 6. lol

He survived. But I think that chicken is going to kill him eventually, one way or another.

[font size=20]SUBTLE![/font]

So, grip the wheel at East and West, or the more comfortable positions of WSW / ESE and SW / SE.

Not too cool.

I cannot even imagine trying to drive from my lap.

Prius drivers, maybe.

On edit:

Who drives cars with airbags enabled?

Fools, that's who.

Those things will kill you.

Hope you are being sarcastic.

And may be somewhat averse to a bomb going of in our face. Also, airbags don't do so well in multiple impact crashes.

Didja know that far better seatbelts than the ubiquitous 3-point are readily available - but are not legal for road use? How do you think NASCAR drivers walk away from those brutal wrecks?

Believe that because their uncle was ejected from a vehicle and survived that its best to be ejected during a crash than to wear a seatbelt.

Leaving the airbags enabled is a much wiser decision. The restraint system is designed to work as a whole, with the belts and seats in concert with the airbags (in a situation where the bags go off). Removing one part of the equation definitely lessens the efficacy of the whole package.

If you're a renegade like I was and have a half-cage with borderline-legal seats and completely illegal harnesses (with three-point belts hanging for inspection purposes) then yes, you should have the bags disabled - my 240SX actually had a handy little panel on the side of the steering wheel, popped open as easily as the fusebox and there was the airbag connector. I think Nissan knew what people were planning on doing with those cars..

I have been clipped (front right bumper, by an intoxicated driver) when the bag blew and sent me into a spin into the median wall. It could have killed me, just that simple clip.

I have had the bags dis-enabled on all of my cars.

I would rather take my chances on my own.

on public roads, and have the good sense to take it to the racetrack.

I have several cars that will top that. I happen to live very close to a raceway ( http://www.racesonoma.com/ ) and I am not far from some wide-open roads in Nevada.

There are a few of us who truck our cars to Reno, head out on roads where one can see for miles and get it on.

You have to understand that there are those of us who can drive more safely at speed than most folks can drive at 65mph. Plus, we have better autos.

It's the fact that the rest of us don't like sharing the road with people willing to go more than 10-15 over the posted limits.

No matter how skilled and safe you are, you'll never be able to safely predict what other (and unprofessional/unskilled) drivers are going to do in those situations.

Best is to keep it on a track built specifically for high speeds and maintained for that as well.

But when i drive at high speed or on dirt roads my hands go higher up the wheel as i feel it gives me faster turns. Also i try to never cross my arms due to the airbag and i have the steering wheel pointed as low as i can so the airbag is not hitting me square in the face rather my chest takes more of it. It still gives you a fair whack but allows you to keep driving if it does deploy.

Simply the best driver in most of our lifetimes.

Try it. When your body shifts in the normal course of things, your shoulders will move from side to side. With the 10 & 2 grip, you have to constantly adjust for that shifting, or use your arms to oppose the shifting, which is fatiguing.

With 8 & 4, your shoulders can shift a lot without moving the steering wheel.

blathering or texting on their phones, it's all good.

Whatever position a person thinks is comfortable and provides good control ...

I drive with my hands at 10 and 2 and I know it isn't what is said as being the correct way anymore but out of habit I still do it. I must break that habit.
After all whats a habit for if its not to break it

Thanks for the reality check on this

But when in a precarious situation, like driving in heavy rain, snow or traffic, I instinctively have them at 10 and 2. I don't think this video changes what my mind says to do.

There are times when I drive with one hand at 12. Sometimes just my thumb at around 7 or 8. Haven't wrecked yet.
Being a shorter person, with short arms, I have to drive pretty close to the wheel which is scary thinking about the air bag, but I figure I would be better off getting smacked with that then smashing into the wheel with a jolt.

console / ARM rest, left hand high noon.

back in the "old" days. Still do. Occasionally I use 10-2 but usually 8-4.

That's what they're there for; they give you the best grip on the wheel since your thumbs have something to latch on to as well as providing the best positioning for control. You never see The Stig with the "roadtrip grip", or this guy..

I remember when Hammond got to drive one he was screaming the whole time!

Also they had some F1-type production car on the show (can't remember it now) I guess for those that could afford not only the car but the support team that came with the package. Clarkson was noting at one point how much further he had to brake in it than his mind allowed him to think was safe in order to be safe in the F1 car

I remember seeing that episode and going WANT...but it turns out the truly well-heeled wannabe-racers are doing the Ferrari "F1 Clienti" program - they sell actual retired Ferrari Formula One cars to the .0001%; the car is garaged and maintained by Ferrari and available for the owner to drive in special track-day events held on the F1 circuits throughout the year.

A man can dream..

but would guess there's a fair amount of training in driving a F1 car. Hammond stalled his several times, yet I don't think he got much more than some instruction on what the controls did.

I'd be happy just being able to step into a good F1 training simulator, if they exist

The F1 Simulator I mean.

My buddy has one, though it isn't real sophisticated, he has a seat that gives feedback, pedals, steering wheel paddle shifters as well as a stick shift. 5 laps around Monza or Watkins Glen and you'll be hooked.

There are much more complex ones out there, mostly in arcade type settings as they are pricey. The type that are made to look like a 3/4 scale of the car and are mounted on air cylinders to give you the sensation of accel and decel, lateral G, etc. The visual is provided by surround type screens.