and by making women the dirty ones, they get off scott free!

I didn't watch it and could care less - but if she was paid than she is under certain restrictions. I have not desire to flaunt my body (for which we should all be grateful) but i know if I came to work having decided to do so I'd be in trouble as 1) I take their money and 2) they have made it clear what the standards of dress are.

Sex is pretty good though - I read about it in a national magazine and it sounds amazing.

Bryant

I am not saying she is a whore - I guess there are two issues here.

1. Is it appropriate that woman flaunting their sexuality in public should be looked at as whores? Generally not (although there is a point where it becomes that - full public nudity is not something I think we are ready for as a society).

2. Is it appropriate for her to take their money and then create a spectacle of herself, counter to what the organizers might want? I don't believe so.

Bryant

For whatever reason Beyonce made a choice to perform for the audience. She may or may not have been paid for it. Why is she a whore then?

Why do you think she made a spectacle of herself? In my eyes, she put on an amazing show and looked great doing it. In my eyes, she is comfortable with her sexuality and knows how to make the most of it. I don't think it makes her less of a person even if she was paid for it.

There are numerous male performers who have provocative acts, but there is little to no attention paid to them. It's just aimed at the women and they are called whores for it.

I probably shouldn't have responded to this. but to be clear I am not calling her a whore.

I think you are missing the point. It is possible that the organizers of the Halftime show brought her in, hoping her sexuality would be on full display (actually that's probably likely). Evidently based on what I have read - she went too far for some people. I don't know as I didn't watch.

The point to her taking money isn't that taking money makes her a whore (it doesn't, and I am not calling her a whore), it's that if you take money you have to live up to what you understand you are taking the money for - which in this case probable means being sexy but not too sexy.

Anyway - again, I am not calling her a whore. And that last statement seems kind of off - male sexuality is proscribed completely differently than female sexuality because of our national hangups about homosexuality (particularly male sexuality).

Bryant

Ps. I'm not calling her a whore.

In Saudi Arabia if you show your hair, you are considered a harlot. In France, going topless at the beach is normal behavior. In America wearing little triangles of cloth in strategic places is considered fine if you are at the beach, but would get you thrown out of the opera. Clothing depends on culture and place for it's appropriateness.

A show is just that, a show, meant to be seen. Creating a spectacle of herself is entirely the point of a show. I'd bet tons of money that the organizers of the Beyonce show were pleased with what they got. Why would you think otherwise?

Sorry, dear, your prudery and judgementalism is definitely showing.

I didn't see the show - and - i guess it's hard to judge how much real outrage there is at DU - it certainly doesn't sound as furious as the Janet Jackson thing a few years back.

Your initial point though, doesn't make a huge amount of sense - she wasn't doing the Halftime in Saudi Arabia or France; I agree completely with your last line which is that clothing depends on culture and place for appropriateness. To some people it seems that she went past that boundary.

I guess we'll find out what the organizers thought next year - I don't know how long in advance these are planned, but if they tap a classic rock act, we'll know.

Bryant

The entire Super Bowl a spectacle and it was expected. It is a venue that pushes the limits every year. Going as far as possible. Nothing new about that. It's a competition from year to year. Not exactly a relaxing or subtle event.

His clothing is tight, leaving nothing to the imagination...his man-boobs are always on full display.

And HE gets paid, too!

And unlike Beyonce, he has no talent...!

I may have to sleep with the lights on tonight

Oh, I'm so ashamed. I'm a monster!! A monster!!!!

because it will generate talk and possibly add more viewers. The old adage "Sex Sells" is 100% true and has been from the year 1,000,000 B.C.E to February 4th 2011 and far beyond that.

The world wide exposure more than makes up for it

The NFL doesn't pay their halftime acts.

production costs only, but receive no personal renumeration.

If you got it flaunt it. When I was a whole lot younger, I had it and I flaunted it. But old age has kicked in and unfortunately, I don't have it anymore.

If a woman wants to flaunt her sexuality, is it because she really WANTS to or is it because society has pushed her to do that?

What about porn created by women?

I'm not arguing with you, btw. Just pointing out how complex the subject gets.

stratosphere that Beyonce can do whatever Beyonce wants, society be damned.

That's how I see it at least. I think she really loves her body.

Another aspect of it is that sex appeal sells. That applies to both genders.

Would Beyonce have been asked to perform at the Super Bowl, Inauguration or anywhere for that matter if she hadn't been flaunting her sexuality all along? And if so, was that choice really a choice about being a sexual being or about being successful as an entertainer?

I'll think that maybe women can be famous for talent other than being able to shake it, shake it, baby.


Oh no it's not about prudery. It's about women who are less than stunning or older than twenty, having the same chance to express their musical or other performing talents based on CHOPS as men have.

Geez take Madonna for example...her show was fucking terrific but all she gets around here is shit for being too old. (Or for being pop rather than whatever your preferred genre is. But that's a matter of subjective taste, which isnt justified for values critique. ) How fucking sexist and how fucking ageist.

waiting for a man to jump up on stage and rape her, since "She was asking for it wearing those clothes". They may act like they are progressive and liberal but its all to common for old folks to not be able to except sex and/or stop thinking of women as lower beings who can not choose their own paths.

in a sentence as well, doncha think? But I guess we're all "prudes". I never thought I'd see the day that Boomers--hippies and Free Lovers from the 60s--would get accused of THAT!

I would say a lot of it is bred with fundieness at an early age...

Oh my god they are being sexual on stage, in front of peoples, my eyes! me eyes! They are sexualizing the WORLD

Don't expect people to call her a "singer" if half, or more of her performance is dancing. Either herself, or a bunch of people behind her. Too much of popular "music" is more about dancing instead of singing. Anyone can get onstage and shake their body and grab their ass and their crotch. Few people can really sing without Autotune or something similar. And race doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. I say the same thing about Madonna, or Britney Spears or any white female whose every "performance" consists more of dancing instead of singing.

Beyonce will impress me when she stands still, alone on a stage, and sings without backup or lipsyncing. Until then I reserve the right to think of nothing more than the latest eye-candy.

Yes, she can actually sing. So she's not just the latest eye-candy.

They were one of the first female groups to have status alongside make peers in club music... If anything, they made more of the men actually add singing in with rapping. And they designed their own clothes. They were the first to come up with the high cut so they could show off their dance moves at a show. It was liberating to be in a club and have a female(s) as the main singers and everyone is still dancing and having a great time.

Years later, and Beyonce has had an amazing run as a solo artist. Many of the dance/ club songs are strong- female songs. No moping about brooding over a man, if the man doesn't put a ring on it, there loss. Her albums have a mix of dance/ club songs and slower, power ballads.

And she seems to have made the right decisions for her in her own time. When she first started dating Jay-Z, there seemed to be a never ending pressure of when they would be married and why wouldn't she marry him. She wanted her career and Beyonce Brand, she and he got married in their own terms and then had a child on their own terms... She was in control of her body and when things were right for her (and she's 10 yrs younger than he is). It doesn't seem like either of them use one another for each others career, but support one another.

Of course, I don't know them personally, but over the last 15 yrs she's seemed like a very strong, independent woman, who has legs like tree trunks, a very curvy body, and has felt no need to enhance anything. If I were to give a word association with Beyonce, it would be Amazon.

there was a concert on tv, something like "Women in Rock"... Cyndi Lauper, Ann and Nancy Wilson, etc., I think Wynonna Judd... were all performing. At the last minute, the producers decided to throw Destiny's Child into the mix. It was really the first time I'd bothered to listen to them--my daughter loved them, but I was into Rock, not R&B. At any rate, when the promo spots were coming on, no mention of DC; then when the show went live, they were announced.

I was like "oh man, how are they going to stand up to all of that at the last minute?" Well, Beyonce took off in a solo and it was the most amazing thing to watch. She truly rose to that challenge, as did the other 2 ladies. I can remember Cyndi Lauper sitting next to them as Beyonce was singing and the look on her face was that she was really impressed by her. From that moment on, I've been a fan of her ability and professionalism. Yes, she CAN sing.

Whitney Houston got the same blow back when she sang the national anthem at a SuperBowl game--she pre-recorded it and lip synced on the day of performance. Interestingly, that recording went to #1 on Billboard right after that.

So, yeah, Beyonce can sing AND she can dance.

Haters just gon' hate...

To your opinion of Beyonce.

I haven't seen a post where parents children needed to leave the room for that one. But some posters are being lauded for asking their children leave the room for the half time show, then they were allowed back in where they were subjected to the Calvin Klein commercial.

Some people still have a long way to go.

Edit to add:

customers know they aren't getting that dude, right?

Yummy.

But I also didn't feel the need to call Beyonce names for the outfit she wore. Very sexy.

Just not my kind of music. I must admit she is attractive for someone so young (I'm 45) and a very skilled performer.

I just ordered a crap load of that crappy underwear on line thinking I was getting him too. Now my day is ruined.

I wanted this 'issue' to spin on for a couple days before anyone pointed out the hypocrisy.

Misogyny abounds.

that most of the men who saw it will never look like that in a million lifetimes?

That was lovely.

Women have to be modest and pure, but men as always get to do whatever they want without the same kind of rules and restrictions on them.

Not sure there was "outrage", but its not getting great reviews.

Personally, I think that we "civilized" people are full of crap.

Dance as a form of sexual / fertility display is not so distant from where we actually are today.

Link to the thread where the lack of clothes were discussed with this add. Where parents had to remove their children from the room. Where he looked like a slut.

You clearly don't get it and don't want to get it.

Whoosh.

from the room because she was busy oogling.

Like Beyonce has. You smiley is cute, I just don't think you know why.

Here's a thought ... the half time show at the Super Bowl is longer and more anticipated than ANY single commercial.

As such, the Calvin Klein commercial has received less attention on DU when compared to Beyonce's half time performance.

And this apparently surprises you?

The horror!!!

On edit: And just to add, my family was not upset by either. My wife thought Beyonce's performance was flat. And after the CK ad she said "Well, that was interesting.".

We all agreed that the only thing missing from the half time performance was Justin Timberlake.

And that is all good. They are clearly comparable to what is being discussed. The double standard is as obvious as the nose on your face. Some are always right and cannot admit when their views of the genders are hypocritical, they will waffle all around attempting to make a point that is not there. Others are there and I enjoy discussing issues with them.

Duluth trading company, baby.

I'm not talking about the commercial...I am talking about the GAME. They weren't doing minuets out on that field--they were trying, aggressively, to really hurt each other.

The thing for the kids to watch was the Puppy Bowl, not the Superbowl.

And football is extremely violent. In all honest, I am drawn to that part of the game. Every single play these guys do things that would send me to the hospital in tears. Maybe not tears, I don't think you can cry is you are unconscious. There is clearly a place in this country for "gladiator sports".

making more money, drawing attention to herself had nothing to do with it...yeah, right.

It's how she earns a living for one thing and she's good at it.

She does own her body. Is she less of a person for how she chooses to use it?

If she truly "owned" her body and her sexuality she wouldn't feel the need to do this...I call BS on supporting this over-rated hack.

"Maybe she should just sing"

Way to put her in her place. Maybe she should just sing, she is getting a little uppity with all of that dancing.

that does not offend your delicate sensibilities?

Pretty obvious. Your posts speak for themselves.

You must be really fun to be around.

MAYBE she shoudl sing...I've capitalized the word whose meaning you should look up, then re-read your original post.

The irony is thick. Take care.

As someone pointed out down thread, pro choice applies to more than abortion.

In your opinion sexy women don't want to show it, but that's all it is, an opinion, not based on facts at all. As a woman who was fairly sexy in her youth and who flaunted it on the dance floor and who didn't wear a bra for 20 years, didn't need to, I call BS. My sister who is even sexier, dressed way more conservative because that's who she was. Two sexy women, two different ways of dressing, neither any more valid than the other - that's reality, not your little uptight judgements.

Suffice to say it's enormously immature and totally wityhout one rational coherent thought.

Funny how you seem to have answered my question without even intending to do this.

if we are properly ashamed of them and want to cover them up. It's a false meme.

If the poster last night had called a properly covered Michelle Malkin a b*tch he'd have been run off the site. Instead he called Beyonce a prostitute and her fellow performers sluts, and was hailed as a wonderful daddy for teaching his daughter that. Just let that sink in for a minute.

I honestly don't give a shit if anyone likes her music or not. I call BS on the idea that she's a no-talent "hack" or uncomfortable with her sexuality because she showed more skin that some people are comfortable seeing on an uppity female- and in the middle of a violent game, no less. YMMV.

Here is a random sampling of no-talent hacks using flash and/or showing skin to cover for their lack of singing ability.

on the planet. maybe they shouldn't use sex to sell products either

some feminist heroine.

what's YOUR big problem with HER doing it for herself vs. her being used by some corporation? i think it is progress that she CAN DECIDE to use her sexuality IF SHE CHOOSES just like coporations use women to sell products. and i'm not at all upset that she has a winning combination and that she's making tons of money marketing herself, the way she chooses to. more power to her.

What the fuck is going on with the overload of people posting here DEMANDING we take Bouncy's crappy show as a sign of a strong woman...don't try and tell me what I can and cannot think of her shitty music...and why is it that women feel the need to show off their sexuality, to "prove" they own it...did Bruce pull shit like this...even Madonna didn't. As far as I'm concerned the minimally talented singer only reinforced the notion that women can't succeed UNLESS they use sex...

So since she doesn't sing any music you like it's shitty? Wow so if you don't like something somebody else does since its not good to you whatever the other person likes is inferior to your taste?

Ok, I joined DU in order to join with other liberal/progressive people and I log on here tonight for a "is she a whore?" debate. This is a shame. You know "We" liberals/progressive claim to be so tolerant and so open yet we still are do divided. We are doomed we will never progress because we still have people who still feel superior in their thinking to anyone they disagree with.

Shame

and neither does Beyonce. you are the one who is insists on trashing the woman, her music, and her style.

Buzz off :swat:

That whole style- making money on sex- is not progressive imo

She had no choice but to go on stage and be sexy.

It's her body, her choice. If she has the talent to flaunt it, she should go for it. If it offends your sensibilities so much that a woman is in charge of her sexuality and using it as she sees fit, look the other way or turn off the TV.

whether manual labor or brainpower, we all sell our bodies

Why is risque entertainment different?

mustard covered shorts with the stripes down the side?

Beyonce had as much fabric (four pairs of support hosiery) on her legs as they did--and she at least had a bit of a lace skirt covering her hindquarters. Perhaps they should have put a bit of modest lace on the behinds of the gentlemen on the field....hmmm?

People only THOUGHT they were seeing skin. In fact, they were seeing four layers of a shiny nylon fabric with a lot of elastic built in.

Just like the Ravens, in those painted on yoga pants!

huge men running around in revealing tights...business as usual. a woman wears lace think of the children. total hypocrisy.

To say nothing of the bits and pieces placed hither and yon to accentuate this and that!

Why, the strutting, half naked trollops! Think of the children, INDEED!

Fans of more wholesome entertainment can still find Pat Boone CDs.

I think she's an All-American archetype: the Tease.

Beyonce is about as square as a pop star can be. I don't see her and think sex, I see a corporate robot.

That said: I respect her robotic corporate craft.

"If I were a woman, I'd be the biggest whore in town..BWAHAHAHA"!

Talk is cheap. The proof lies in the HONEST answer to a question like:

Would you marry a woman who did that publicly? Would you want your

daughter, your sister, your girlfriend or your mother to be in the kind of "show" you describe?

I guess you believe I should keep them in burkas, but I'm not one to tell others what to do.

On the prior question of "Would you marry a woman who did that publicly?" I can assure you that (a) I'm already married, so it isn't really a concern of mine and (b) my preference in marrying was determined on other grounds. However, judging women's behavior on the criterion of "would I marry a woman who did X" seems like an odd way to go about it. I do not expect every woman on the planet to appeal to my sense of whom I would or would not marry, as I do not consider every woman on the planet to be auditioning for that role.

Do I expect every woman on earth to do their level best to be what I personally consider to be "marriageable"? No. They are sentient beings entirely capable of deciding what to do without consulting me.

I asked about your PREFERENCES regarding your own family, not what we all know

to be factual adults "freedoms", and, predictably, you can't answer.

BTW, I have no idea why you would imagine that I, as a woman,

would think you should keep other women "in burkas", but I guess when you're on the defensive,

all sorts of weird assumptions come out.