K/R

It was signature moment and I'm sorry that there are others who find it necessary to rain on Beyonce's parade.

They are all fabulous.

it's only because she is "of color". No one has a right to critique her performance but you?

criticizing Beyonce for being not wearing enough clothing during the halftime show. Or for making music that old white guys don't like. Or something. Women (and women of color especially) get this kind of reaction all the time.

By the way, when does anyone at DU complain about the cheerleaders at pro football games? Never. What are the cheerleaders doing? Jumping up and down. What are they wearing? Not much. Why single out Beyonce for special criticism? I guess the cheerleaders are staying in their "place" and not drawing attention from the game.

If you disliked the show or the music you're just a woman hating old white guy.... gotcha

Nobody is shutting down critiques and the text of your post is illogical. This thread adds more critique (positive and negative) and commentary, a fine thing.

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and
fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy
to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence." -- Supreme Court
Justice Louis D. Brandeis, in Whitney v. California, 1927

"Ignorance is the most violent element in society." Emma Goldman

Puritanism: "the haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy."
H. L. Mencken

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American
public." H. L. Mencken

Just so we are complete here

I guess I'm just surprised at the ease with which DUers find themselves bashing Beyonce, and not the whole overblown nightmare spectacle that is the Super Bowl itself.

I'm pretty sure a lot of the players aren't paragons of virtue.

I didn't like the music, the outfits or the stripper moves. I wouldn't have liked the show, had the same show been done by a white singer. For example, I did not care for Madonna's stripper show. And as for the show having all women, all I got from that was that it was for titillation purposes, not a demonstration of the power of women, either black or white. And for the love of all things wild and wonderful, next Superbowl, engage a sound engineer.

dancers, including the Rockettes and those 1950's stars the June Taylor dancers.

but I really don't get all the pearl-clutching. It's 2013. We've had scantily-clad women gyrating around on TV since the eighties and probably even before. Big whoop!

Addendum: Sure, you could make the case that this kind of performance objectifies women. But if you're going to make that case, then stop watching football. Women are objectified every time a game is on. Some of the commercials are far more offensive, misogynistic, and plain stupid than any costume Beyonce could ever come up with.

Be consistent, is what I'm saying. Or else be quiet.

hold my tongue often on DU with music controversies because while there are many ways to criticize anything, down to every hair on a performer's head without being all racist, much of the objection to her, to Janet Jackson, and others is if not racist, at least fully unaware of how some of the crap they say sounds....
Look, lots of comments about 'that dance music' or 'the overproduced sound' the mention that there are dancers on the stage, many times these things are fucking codes even if the folks using them do not understand what they are saying. "I don't like that glossy dance sound, Beatles never needed dancers, I like good singers like these: insert photos of white girl singers here.
Again, it is perfectly possible to say that you thing Beyonce is a hack devoid of all skill without the subtext. Most comments about her are without that subtext. But some of them ARE all about that subtext.
Hell, I nearly went off DU when Michael Jackson died, not because of the many very diverse attitudes about the man, but because of comments about his music. One thread I will never forget had people talking about his last rehearsal song, the clip so many saw. The many, many comments about 'vapid dance music' and 'meaningless lyrics' and 'mindless pop' amazed me on DU, because the lyrics actually mention FDR and MLK Jr, the lyrics are powerful shit:
ell me what has become of my rights
Am I invisible because you ignore me?
Your proclamation promised me free liberty, now
I'm tired of bein' the victim of shame
They're throwing me in a class with a bad name
I can't believe this is the land from which I came
You know I really do hate to say it
The government don't wanna see
But if Roosevelt was livin'
He wouldn't let this be, no, no

Skin head, dead head
Everybody gone bad
Situation, speculation
Everybody litigation
Beat me, bash me
You can never trash me
Hit me, kick me
You can never get me

All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that
They don't really care about us

-------
So I don't care if you though the man was evil, to claim that lyric is 'vapid dance music' means that the speaker can not hear the content of dance music, or of what they call 'dance music'.
Many people on DU called that very song 'empty minded, soulless, noting but rhythm.....'

I had to walk away from this place for a time over that. It was far too clear a picture of far too many of my own fellow when they claim to be listening to music, they are really just judging it by it's cover...

Well said! Well said!

And I'm NOT a fan of Beyonce - I'm more Erykah Badu in the space and place - but anyone who has heard the song "One and One" knows she doesn't just do 'vapid' 'dance' music.

And ironically - the M.J. song you mentioned - is the only one I liked by him since I think the Bad CD came out. It's like he got good and pissed and started telling it like it is.

and no, they are not black.

Why isn't it OK to simply not like the music and say so?

Edited to add that my music collection is about 85% female. Most of them write their own songs and play at least one instrument. Sorry if that's what I prefer.

of the ability to reach millions.

Ask any pop musician or any musician. They know how hard it is to make a hit happen. Very specific ingredients go into the pie and the semiotic scaffolding is a vector for issues in the culture.

heh heh used an ethnomusicology reference to confound. yes they study pop music.

It is incredibly sad that there are so many people in this world that fail to see the genius of Michael Jackson.

I am greatly saddened by his death because he was in fact a genius, a genius that came and was "Gone Too Soon" leaving behind three children and lots of unfinished business no doubt.

Many of the lyrics to MJ's songs need to be carefully read and interpreted and they certainly never will be forgotten, at least by me anyway.

Powerful shit you say. That is putting it lightly IMO.

The world would be a better place.

MJ donated to the Obama for President campaign and if that is not political, I do not know what is.

He was far more involved in many charitable contributions, including:

On March 1, 1988, (on occasion of the United Negro College Fund's 44th dinner) at a press conference organized by his sponsor, Pepsi, in Manhattan, N.Y., he offers UNCF’s President and CEO, Christopher Edley a check for 600,000 dollars, the entire grossings from his private sold-out benefit concert held at Madison Square Garden in New York City (for the 42 UNCF institutions, including Fisk University), making him one of "UNCF"s most significant donators. The event featured children reading their dreams and wishes as Jackson looks on.

On May 22, 1988, he visits the Bambino Gesù Children's Hospital in Rome, Italy, where he signs autographed pictures and delivers sweets, records and moral comfort to the ill children, among whom 13-year old heart-transplant patient, Nunzia Glaccio. Jackson signs a check for 100,000 pounds to the hospital for leukemia research. While in Rome for his Bad Tour, he also visits the Sistine Chapel, the Vatican City, Saint Peter’s Cathedral, and other significant places.

On June 19, 1988, Michael Jackson is performing a concert during Bad World Tour at the Reichstag Building in Berlin, West Germany, before an audience of 50,000 people. Over 3,000 East Germans gather at the Berlin Wall to listen to Jackson performing on the other side of the Wall in West Berlin. The entertainer decided to perform at Reichstag to send out a message of peace and unity. The Berlin Wall was a barrier constructed by the German Democratic Republic between East Berlin and West Berlin which ran just behind Reichstag, from August 13, 1961, this completely cutting off West Berlin from surrounding East Germany and from East Berlin. The barrier included guard towers placed along large concrete walls, which circumscribed the death strip that contained anti-vehicle trenches, fakir beds and other defenses. The fall of the Wall started on the evening of November 9, 1989, and was the first step toward German reunification, which was formally concluded onOctober 3, 1990. Michael Jackson wrote a poem dedicated to this historic episode for his 1992 book, “Dancing The Dream”,titled simply: “Berlin 1989”.

In 1988, Jackson’s signed fedora is given away on occasion of a music celebrity auction advantaging the "T.J. Martell Foundation for Leukemia, Cancer and AIDS Research", the hat being sold for over 4,000 dollars.

much more here:

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/michael-jackson-charitable-contributions

Heal the World was a well-known one (I hope) ...

It is a shame that the world lost just a fine person who I believe did the best he could considering the hand he was dealt in his sad, too short of a life. I find what the press et al. did their best to ruin him and he knew it too.

I'll never forget him. And no, I never believed any of the lies surrounding him, never. It is sad that his reality was not known to the world. He was "one of the best people to hit the planet" in the words of his late friend Elizabeth Taylor.

Gone too soon indeed.

grown men that molest children and then hide behind thier celebrity and money to avoid punishment. Seems like Some du members think they have the right to decide what and who is acceptable in the pop music world, and make certain to bash anyone with the temerity to question the orders and absolutes of our resident neofeminist leaders and male haters. Someday even sexist neofeminists will have to stop treating men with this double standard and begin to see men as something other than objects to dehumanize and targets for female rage and vengeance. You have the right to claim to be interested in the formation of a fair, egalitarian society- but you don't have the right to your own special sexist assumptions replacing reality. The same sort of sexist assumptions and vengeance as the teabaggers; except the victims are men, so their victimization is acceptable and preferred by the feminism-as-vengeance crowd. No real difference between teabaggers and these extremists, but then again denying the humanity of the enemy is what extremists do.

MJ was acquitted by a jury of his peers.

The reason he was acquitted was because he was no where near Neverland when the events occurred.

It was a racist attempt to take down a good man that happened to be black IMO.

Welcome to my ignore list.

I too am disappointed in regressive nature of some many posts about Beyonce's show. Is this DU, the progressive site? What's up with these people? You can like Sinatra, or Billie or Sarah or the Beatles or country without disparaging what was a great extravaganza of a Superbowl halftime show, just what it's supposed to be. And all-women by the way.

Now when are we gonna talk about how tight the football players' pants are? Because fair is fair.

You know. The one with the hunky, well-muscled guy in his underwear.

I am privy. They were really liking the dehumanized lump of man meat. I thought I would have been skewered if I were to have talked similarly about Beyonce in here outfit, not that a gentleman would do such a thing. The whole sexualization of our culture is rampant and out of control.

I think people in general should show less cleavage/bulge.

long line. in modern times such women can reveal more skin, but the sexual hook is still the same.

she is not a paragon of liberation.

that the media and certain feminists are portraying her as such is a sign of the absolute emptiness of modern feminism.

Sid

Hardly. It was an indictment of the anyone who was critical of Beyonce's performance.

a beautiful, powerful woman who doesn’t need a man, or even a male gaze.

So, tell me. What's with the titillating outfit?

to use men, as though men using women isn't bad enough? Two wrongs make a right? That kind of thing.

Demeaning her talents is how it appeared to me.

WHY CAN'T WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT???

we gals cannot be on the playing field but we can certainly shake our booties on the sidelines or while performing and don't you see - that EQUALS the playing field!!!

for profit, it's so feminist and empowering'.

what a fucking crock.

it's what women have done back to the days of the courtesans.

we are being told on a DEMOCRATIC BOARD we have to be OK WITH IT!!! The more things change the more they stay the same!!!!

simply ridiculous and demeaning. She has such talent, they all do, why do this with it?

Can you imagine Stevie Nicks parading around have naked?

Mr. Scorp has a penchant for the dramatic.

So sue me.

"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months"

-Oscar Wilde

selling sex in her schtick is not to say there's something wrong with it or she should wear a sack.

just to note it's not some feminist liberation, just the usual with more skin.

Her singing killed the performance for me, for it was wa y to fragmented. Jennifer Hudson on the other hand can really belt out the songs with a tremendous amount of soul. Alicia Keys isn't too shabby either. I will say though that with Alicia Key's talent on piano I would have loved to see her add a piano solo into her rendition of the star spangled banner. Would have made it even better

90% of performers use a backing track, Brittney Spears always did.

Considering the stresses involved she did fine. She was also obliged to go fully live due to the inaugeration bruhaha

the stamina needed to dance less than 10 minutes pales beside it.

she's an entertainer. just an entertainer. not a paragon of liberation, not a bionic woman. she's just a fucking entertainer.

over and over.

vs. about ten for the bricks person

Certainly you'd agree that the dance performance is more complex as it involves communication with hundreds of millions of people as well.

original claim.

especially for a short performance.

nor does beyonce do anything that a typical chorus line dancer on broadway or on film can't do.

she's just an entertainer, and she's not famous because her dance skills are super-special.

'every generation throws a hero up the pop charts'

She did but it impacted her vocals a bit. I'd say 10% can sing / dance at that level but only .001 can do it flawlessly.

dancer/singers pull it off, two performances a day every week.

the point is, it's no feat to sing and dance at the same time if you're in good health and not too old.

the wear and tear on professional dancers is tremendous, and the level of training is grueling. (btw, beyonce can sing and dance but there are many who can sing and dance better)

this fact does not preclude having empathy for people who work other types of grueling days jobs.

then there are the people who work mentally grueling day jobs.

we just need more empathy all around.

Last edited Tue Feb 5, 2013, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

a professional dancer.

she's a media personality who sometimes dances.

she has a better claim to being a professional singer than a dancer.

watch her superbowl show without sound & see how much she dances and how complex her dancing is.

not impressed.

....though i agree that ain't sayin' much. i'm not impressed either.

my issue was that you seemed to be saying that it was easy to "pull off" what professional dancers do. sorry if i misinterpreted.

singer with some dance training who became a media personality. she has some dance moves, but she's no working dancer.

i watched the video again; she spends most of the time striking poses, not dancing. the dance moves she does do are pretty routine (& dull, to my taste).

pressure involved

OK

I've lived with actual professional dancers (as in women that earn their living dancing) and they never diet, they don't have personal trainers, and they never see the inside of a gym, because the don't need to. My last Dancer girlfriend was a featured performer in The Lion King in LA. She spent pretty much every waking moment, when not in rehearsal or a performance, trying to consume enough calories to keep her shape.

First, I'll start with what I thought were positives. I liked that her entire backing band were all women. That was cool and she actually be spoken about more than Beyonce.
2nd, I like that she brought the remaining members of Destiny's Child on stage with her. It shows she didn't forget where she came from.

Now, the things I want to, not necessarily criticize, but mention.

She really didn't sing that much--particularly when she was dancing. Counting out numbers, yelling at the crowd to "come on," are all just fillers to prove she is on a live mic. Her back-up singers did a lot more singing than she did. When she did sing, she wasn't bad, flat in a few spots, a little out of her register in a few others.

My particular problem though, is your assertion that she did something outstanding. As someone else mentioned, Broadway dancers/singers do at least 2 shows a day like 6 days a week. They do this all the time, they just don't get the recognition (or the money).

Another problem I have is how accepting some people are of the fact that it's quite all right for a singer to lip sync if they dance too. They're friggin' singers, who are sometimes very talented singers that put the "show" or the "performance" ahead of their talent. Give me Aretha Franklin everyday of the week and twice on Saturday and Sunday. Give me Adele, who stands in from of her mic and belts out a song so full of beauty and soul that it makes you want to cry--makes you devastated that a talent like that could lose her voice before she reaches her full potential.

Yeah, Beyonce put on a hell of a show. Good for her, that's her job but she does have talent and it's sad to see that talent often shunted so she can shake her ass in underwear because that's what's expected to sell records--funny how Aretha and Adele don't have to look like strippers to sell records or draw crowds though. And just FYI, I'm not suggesting women should have to wear burka's. I think women should be allowed to dress any old way they please but if I had a daughter and she wanted to emulate someone, I'd push her towards Adele over Beyonce.

and a lot of people don't like that. Plus, it's essentially derived from African dance, and a lot of people really have a problem with that because it's body hip wide stance feet planted fertility music. I'm not that into the pop music aspect but the dance is fabulous and agree that it was great to see all women as the backup band.

Still a great night for women.

They just look like petty jerks (at best) when they do it.

Nice post.

That pretty much proves the point of why this was a moment culturally speaking

In fact I started collecting images to say something similar, mainly in response to those who felt they had to shield their children's eyes from the Beyonce spectacle.

I was going to compare the violence of football, and even the violence and twisted ads that use our American identities to sell us Ram trucks vs. a proud celebration of black dance aesthetic by a super talented crew.

You focus here more on something I didn't even know -- that women only own 1% of property in the world -- I suspect more than than that in the US! But it is obviously still cutting edge to have Beyonce do this performance, we're still a country that allows so much violence but when it comes to celebrating sensuality, and African American female beauty and physical artistry, that causes a furor.

+100000000000000000

The show showed beautiful, shapely and scantily clothed and talented women on the stage. I would prefer that we women showed our power through our minds and our accomplishments, not shaking our booties for the men folk. Trying to appease them so they won't be too threatened by those powerful ladies.

I think women enjoy dancing and flaunting it. That's a requirement for performance of that kind of music and the idea is to make others want to dance too. Only in our culture it's disturbing to feel the hips so people disassociate themselves from the natural need to move and express the body.

And most of them aren't afraid to use them.

I'd really love the publicity.

and we do too. Have hips. and butts. Some of us have more than we asked for.

(Not that I'm always happy about that......but that's my personal preference)

I never would've guessed by your screen name!

As for the hips and butt...okay, I'll go with it! Although, as I've aged and the estrogen has left me like rats running away from a sinking ship, the hips have disappeared, leaving me at 6'1" looking like a praying mantis. I never thought I'd see the day when I wished for MORE junk in the trunk!

But I wish I'd had Beyonce as a fashion icon when I was growing up, instead of skinny gentile chicks like Farrah. I would have been a lot prouder of my booty.

In the context of a dance music spectacle which is what we're discussing -- why do people drag down dancing to strippers when it's all of our rights to enjoy ourselves dancing.

& embrace the complimentary differences between men & women.

I know I'm a strong woman & I can be tough in my own way when I have to be, but I also like my femininity, too.

that change is going to have to take a long time even if it starts right now.

you cannot hold Beyonce responsible for all of history's ills. she is working the market as is her job as an entertainer. Change the market then she may well have to change her costumes.

how we look or titillate men.

she did absolutely nothing for women except for set our causes back 40 years. I hated her music; I hated her voice. But I've come to realize that we women must stop apologizing for who we are. Beyonce says she likes to feel sexy onstage. I don't think she's doing it for men as much as she's doing it for herself and other women...particularly black women.

It as special significance for us as black women because our sexuality has often been demeaned. Beyonce and other black women like her remind us that we don't have to apologize for being black "with big hips" and beautiful.

I'm not a Beyonce fan at all. While I think she can sing, I also think she is one of the most overrated artists in a generation. However, she is absolutely gorgeous, she works incredibly hard, and she is her own woman. That says a lot in a time where black women especially are still denigrated for who we are. And that means a great deal.

I am not the biggest fan of her art myself. At the same time I think it is very powerful and should at least be respected. Her work ethic is what really makes me a fan of her as a person. That is something to look up to.

Thank you for your post.

I have spent years teaching my nieces that they can be strong intelligent women who do not need to dress in certain ways or pander to men to be taken seriously. When I was young I had to put up with a lot of groping and "don't worry your pretty little head about things" attitude.

yeh.

I'm not into her music either but that doesn't mean I want to take what she has away. That's crazy.

but because of that note where she names the people in her band, and because of that guitarist, i'm going to watch it and maybe even listen to her music when I get a chance.

unprecedented!!

There has been a long line of women of color performing at half time, as well. Some performing with others, some flying solo.

Since women generally outlive their husbands, elderly women control a very significant fraction of total assets.

Daughters also control significant assets in inherited trust funds. These are typically set up to ensure that their current husbands can't get their hands on the wealth.

she failed in her costuming. She has so much talent, but those costumes were as disgusting as Madonna's and they demean us all.

All I was thinking, as a Baltimore Ravens fan, was:

1st Half: "This is fucking awesome!"
2nd Half: "Please don't blow it.....please don't blow it....please don't blow it..."
Postgame: "WOO-to the fucking-HOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!"

Remember those walls I built
Well, baby they're tumbling down
And they didn't even put up a fight
They didn't even make up a sound

I found a way to let you in
But I never really had a doubt
Standing in the light of your halo
I got my angel now

It's like I've been awakened
Every rule I had you breakin'
It's the risk that I'm takin'
I ain't never gonna shut you out

Everywhere I'm looking now
I'm surrounded by your embrace
Baby I can see your halo
You know you're my saving grace

You're everything I need and more
It's written all over your face
Baby I can feel your halo
Pray it won't fade away

I can feel your halo halo halo
I can see your halo halo halo
I can feel your halo halo halo
I can see your halo halo halo

Hit me like a ray of sun
Burning through my darkest night
You're the only one that I want
Think I'm addicted to your light

I swore I'd never fall again
But this don't even feel like falling
Gravity can't forget
To pull me back to the ground again

Feels like I've been awakened
Every rule I had you breakin'
[ From: http://www.elyrics.net ]
The risk that I'm takin'
I'm never gonna shut you out

Everywhere I'm looking now
I'm surrounded by your embrace
Baby I can see your halo
You know you're my saving grace

You're everything I need and more
It's written all over your face
Baby I can feel your halo
Pray it won't fade away

I can feel your halo halo halo
I can see your halo halo halo
I can feel your halo halo halo
I can see your halo halo halo

I can feel your halo halo halo
I can see your halo halo halo
I can feel your halo halo halo
I can see your halo halo halo
Halo, halo

Everywhere I'm looking now
I'm surrounded by your embrace
Baby I can see your halo
You know you're my saving grace

You're everything I need and more
It's written all over your face
Baby I can feel your halo
Pray it won't fade away

I can feel your halo halo halo
I can see your halo halo halo
I can feel your halo halo halo
I can see your halo halo halo

I can feel your halo halo halo
I can see your halo halo halo
I can feel your halo halo halo
I can see your halo halo halo

I didn't watch the super bowl, but I'm a Beyonce fan. She has a lot of fans & I'm one of 'em.

We control our own destiny! All women! Every woman! Women, period!