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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTwo of Phelps' granddaughters leave Westboro Church
http://www.kansascity.com/2013/02/06/4052727/two-members-leave-westboro-church.html#storylink=omni_popular--snip-
We know that weve done and said things that hurt people, the statement said. Inflicting pain on others wasnt the goal, but it was one of the outcomes. We wish it werent so and regret that hurt.
Steve Drain, a spokesman for the church, said in an interview Wednesday that the sisters had rejected the Lord. We cant control whether or not somebody decides, when they grow up, that they dont want to be here, Drain said. Those two girls were kind of straddling the idea that they wanted to be of the world but that they would also miss their family, the only thing they ever knew. If they continue with the position that they have, those two girls, yeah, theyre going to hell.
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Read the full article at the link above.
barbtries
(28,794 posts)i think they're leaving it.
AAO
(3,300 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)"... they're going to Hell."
<-- do I really need this?
siligut
(12,272 posts)They have to continually lie to themselves and thus condemn anyone who threatens their fantasy world.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)Everyone has a moral compass. Good to know that theirs are working.
TrogL
(32,822 posts)They got really upset when I'd quote Bible passages they weren't familiar with or discussed Greek grammar.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)TrogL
(32,822 posts)To them, the Bible says what the Bible says and only in English. To them, you're reading into the word "servant" because there's no literal translation from the Greek in English. Also, they don't care what was happening in society at the time. If it ain't the Bible, it didn't happen.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)annabanana
(52,791 posts)They have known nothing BUT this poisoned family all their lives. They are incredibly vulnerable right now and subject to exploitation. I hope that there is a welcoming community available to them to help them transition.
caraher
(6,278 posts)They're victims of years growing up in an abusive cult, and deserve every consideration as they recover.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)I can't imagine being raised with that much hate for the world by your parents and grandparents. Hopefully, this generation will be the start of the end for Westboro!
I wish these two young ladies well!
Politicub
(12,165 posts)Liberalagogo
(1,770 posts)Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)It always starts with a few, and then grows...
hue
(4,949 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Are you kidding? Have you seen the things they have said/tweeted over the past few years?
Skelly
(238 posts)to figure out what they were told and brought up to believe was a lie (many quite older than these two ladies still haven't figured it out). Then, they were brave enough to not only do something about it, but what they did required them to leave their families, and the only way of life they have never known. Not an easy thing to do.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Hopefully they can atone for the damage they've inflicted.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)It took incredible insight for them to overcome that brainwashing, and courage for them to leave the only world they've ever known.
If you read the article, you will see that they are staying with a sibling who had left earlier. They are paving the path for additional young family members to leave.
That they have done so, and done so publicly, is already significant atonement.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What about those who were at the receiving end of their hateful words, deeds, and tweets. Have you seen the BBC doc on the church and their involvement? They have a LOT to atone for. 27 years old is not a child.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)But when you've been brainwashed your entire life, that is literally all you know. Their escape is no different than the escape of Jeffrey whatizname's Mormon child brides. It isn't easy, it doesn't happen over night, many never make the break. Even now, the "spokespeople" are calling for them to burn in hell. That is their parents and siblings calling for them to burn in hell.
It is not so easy to leave your family and the beliefs that were put into your brain your entire life. Many people are never able to...I suspect the majority.
Certainly I feel for the victims of their hateful words. As somebody who grew up bullied, I can totally empathize. But at least their hate was limited to words. Words hurt vulnerable children far more than adults, who normally have developed the capacity to tune them out. And their hateful words have repeatedly been mitigated by protesters turning up at funerals to surround the grieving families.
As somebody who has recently lost several loved ones, I also know that when one is grieving, stranger's words don't penetrate. Even a kind person officiating is barely present in your consciousness. I don't mean to suggest that what they do doesn't matter; only that the pain of loss is so great that what they do barely exists in comparison. It's like a hangnail when you've been stabbed in the heart. Your total focus is on your lost loved one and your bleeding heart.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)I can't really see this "church" hanging together very well once that delusional old loon kicks the bucket.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)lastlib
(23,233 posts)how can that happen, Will? The Bible says if you believe in in, you're going to hell! It's right there in The Gospel according to Fred, ch.2, verse 4!
Kablooie
(18,634 posts)shawn703
(2,702 posts)In that documentary about their church some years back? I just remember watching it and thinking how odd it was listening to them tell another person they were going to hell in a matter-of-fact way and with smiles on their faces.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)In Chus piece, Phelps describes the moment she started seriously thinking about alternatives to the viewpoint she was raised with: My doubts started with a conversation I had with David Abitbol, she says. Megan met David, an Israeli web developer whos part of the team behind the blog Jewlicious, on Twitter.
I would ask him questions about Judaism, and he would ask me questions about church doctrine. One day, he asked a specific question about one of our signs Death Penalty for Fags and I was arguing for the churchs position, that it was a Levitical punishment and as completely appropriate now as it was then. He said, But Jesus saidand I thought it was funny he was quoting JesusLet he who is without sin cast the first stone. And then he connected it to another member of the church who had done something that, according to the Old Testament, was also punishable by death. I realized that if the death penalty was instituted for any sin, you completely cut off the opportunity to repent. And thats what Jesus was talking about.
The story supports the idea that I (and many other skeptics) have long stressed: the key to winning someone over isnt to do it all in one argument but to plant a seed of doubt that eventually grows. Its amazing that Megan and her sister were able to overcome years of indoctrination and leave. It appears from the article as though Megan still believes in a god, but Id be very interested to know if the sisters are in touch with their brother uncle, atheist Nate Phelps, and whether or not theyll be exploring the possibility that God doesnt hate fags not because hes a great guy but because hes not really there.
http://skepchick.org/2013/02/megan-and-grace-phelps-leave-westboro/
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
Christians differ on the application of those verses, dependent on their level of humanity and humility. That's the crux of the difference between conservative and liberal believers, in my experience. The former are more judgmental of others, only because they have not grasped the logic that they, too, are eligible for hell.
They often use the 'born again' excuse, which is like the 'rapture' both added on to allow them to get away with what they have done or plan to do wrong. Despite the phrase in scripture, it's a logical fail as they apply those concepts.
Because if they were 'born again' with hearts like children, they would not be judgmental. If they were too good for life in this realm and deserving of escaping the End Times, they'd already be gone.
JMHO, not interested in religious debate.
Response to lastlib (Original post)
Shankapotomus This message was self-deleted by its author.
farminator3000
(2,117 posts)that Megan is a looker! she can join my church (of one) anytime!