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Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:56 PM Feb 2013

There Must Be Notification, Judicial and Congressional Oversight, and an Imminent Threat

for a drone strike on anyone. A president must make the potential target aware of the fact that they are a threat to the U.S., and give the target a chance to submit themselves to U.S. authority for adjudication. This is consistent with our constitutional norms. If anyone, American or not, refuses to turn themselves in and continues to commit acts of terror, then they may be targeted for a drone attack.

No one on DU nor any other Liberal website that I know had any problem with Clinton using cruise missiles to kill Usama Bin Laden nor did anyone have any problem with sending in forces to kill Usama in the hills of Tora Bora. Anyone posting now that has a problem with killing known terrorists with a drone is being dishonest and using this issue to spew hatred toward the president.

There should be restraints on this power, but the policy itself has strong support from the American people.

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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There Must Be Notification, Judicial and Congressional Oversight, and an Imminent Threat (Original Post) Yavin4 Feb 2013 OP
About notice jberryhill Feb 2013 #1
I Would List Known Terrorist Groups that have taken responsibility for acts of violence.... Yavin4 Feb 2013 #7
What is "join that group"? jberryhill Feb 2013 #8
Was Osama Bin Laden an American? n/t Dawgs Feb 2013 #2
OBL was trained and supported by the CIA during the 1980s Russian invasion of Afghanistan. n/t Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #6
Interesting, I didn't realize that's a way to become an American. n/t Dawgs Feb 2013 #19
Most don't know that he was once our near and dear friend. n/t Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #24
If McVeigh had fled to Afghanistan or Pakistan after OKC and was killed with a drone... EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #17
You're even being generous. If he had fled to Afpak and was continuing to plot attacks... stevenleser Feb 2013 #21
If there is an immediate threat, the other two are superfluous MineralMan Feb 2013 #3
If you think the government doesn't lie and has our best interests in mind Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #4
How about that 16 year old boy that they killed after they killed Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #5
He's fair game Floyd_Gondolli Feb 2013 #14
Naw, during the Bush administration we used to say that about spying on Americans too whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #9
No! Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons! Capt. Obvious Feb 2013 #10
I had deep concerns, the very same concerns I have now. I recognized Clinton then just as I Melinda Feb 2013 #11
Of all the fail in this OP, this is the most offensive Catherina Feb 2013 #12
Please show me the links Yavin4 Feb 2013 #15
Do your own searching if you're even remotely interested n/t Catherina Feb 2013 #22
DU ain't that old. zipplewrath Feb 2013 #13
DU was here after 9/11 Yavin4 Feb 2013 #16
At the time zipplewrath Feb 2013 #18
Just because Osama worked for the CIA does not make him an American citizen Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #20
Well, I'm with you. David Zephyr Feb 2013 #23
Thank you for your support Yavin4 Feb 2013 #26
How about we settle for a vague e-mail, a super secret panel and a Distant Danger? Glassunion Feb 2013 #25
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
1. About notice
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:06 PM
Feb 2013

Would you consider a person on notice if it was generally announced "If you do X (where X is reasonably specific), you will be a target".

It would seem under that circumstance that one has notice that engaging in X will result in targeting.

I'd also suggest an "or" between judicial and congressional, since in the general rock-paper-scissors game of the Constitution, any two can over-ride any one.

On "imminent threat" would you include past acts in combination with a more general course of conduct - i.e. the person is known to have committed act X, and is currently planning act Y, such that it can be inferred that absent intervention, the plan to commit act Y will likely occur?

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
7. I Would List Known Terrorist Groups that have taken responsibility for acts of violence....
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:14 PM
Feb 2013

and if you join that group, American or not, you should consider that notice that you are a target. That's one example.

On "imminent threat" would you include past acts in combination with a more general course of conduct - i.e. the person is known to have committed act X, and is currently planning act Y, such that it can be inferred that absent intervention, the plan to commit act Y will likely occur?


Yes.
 

EastKYLiberal

(429 posts)
17. If McVeigh had fled to Afghanistan or Pakistan after OKC and was killed with a drone...
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:56 PM
Feb 2013

It would be a good day for America.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
21. You're even being generous. If he had fled to Afpak and was continuing to plot attacks...
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:10 PM
Feb 2013

otherwise, right on!

 

Fire Walk With Me

(38,893 posts)
4. If you think the government doesn't lie and has our best interests in mind
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:11 PM
Feb 2013

please click the link:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=pruit+igoe+spraying&go=&qs=bs&form=QBLH

And this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2323837

And this:

http://occupyobservations.blogspot.com/2012/01/oakland-officials-caught-in-lies-about.html

Drone attacks in five countries with whom we are not at war have resulted in the deaths of over 100 children.

The NDAA, twice-signed, allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens without trial or representation. FISA has been put into action for another 5 years. DHS are militarizing police departments and are requesting a CISPA 2.0.

The NDAA Legalizes The Use Of Propaganda On The US Public

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12525089

"Something is terribly wrong with this country." -V for Vendetta

 

Floyd_Gondolli

(1,277 posts)
14. He's fair game
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:50 PM
Feb 2013

He wasn't exactly hanging out at the mall chasing tail or going to the sock hop of Friday night. Get real.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
9. Naw, during the Bush administration we used to say that about spying on Americans too
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:24 PM
Feb 2013

but it's ok now. These silly concerns shall pass too..

Capt. Obvious

(9,002 posts)
10. No! Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons!
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:25 PM
Feb 2013

No one on DU had any problem with Clinton's missile strikes because....

Anyone?

Melinda

(5,465 posts)
11. I had deep concerns, the very same concerns I have now. I recognized Clinton then just as I
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:37 PM
Feb 2013

know President Obama now. I am far from new to political machinations and 'The Art of War'; I have no doubts as to what makes this planet spin round, and the "memo" is in keeping with geopolitical power. My liberal enthusiasms died a long time ago. Faded and jaded, that's me.

Liberals/Progressives, where is the humanity in any of this?

I still scream. It's just that no one hears me anymore.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
12. Of all the fail in this OP, this is the most offensive
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:45 PM
Feb 2013

Of all the fail in this OP, this is the most offensive: "No one on DU nor any other Liberal website that I know had any problem with Clinton using cruise missiles to kill Usama Bin Laden"

Seriously, WTF, many of us did and do and have been very vocal about that over the years.

DU wasn't even around back then but you pretend to mind read. The lengths some of you are going to to justify the unjustifiable is mind-boggling.

I trust you'll have no problems when countries choose to forcefully, even violently, retaliate against the terror we rain from their skies and call it fighting terrorism. Especially considering how many "known terrorists" are running loose in our country.

Of all the dishonest, offensive OPs over the last two days, this one takes the cake. Congratulations.

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
15. Please show me the links
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:53 PM
Feb 2013

Show me the links to DUers who complained about Clinton's use of missiles to get Bin Laden. There may have been a small number, but the majority of the DU community had no problems with it nor did any other Liberal that I know. Most of them went on show after show citing these missile attacks as proof that Clinton was tough on terror.

Dishonest? Hardly. Fail my ass.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
13. DU ain't that old.
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:48 PM
Feb 2013
No one on DU nor any other Liberal website that I know had any problem with Clinton using cruise missiles to kill Usama Bin Laden nor did anyone have any problem with sending in forces to kill Usama in the hills of Tora Bora. Anyone posting now that has a problem with killing known terrorists with a drone is being dishonest and using this issue to spew hatred toward the president.

I don't think DU even existed during the Clinton administration, but there were people who objected to Clinton's various use of force. This was highlighted after he bombed an aspirin factory. (And you will note he DIDN'T kill Bin Laden).

As for Tora Bora, we didn't find him there, we CHASED him there. That was during an active war, in a war zone, inside a country with which we were at war. They were shooting back and were in military facilities built to fight from.

That in no way describes much of what is happening now.

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
16. DU was here after 9/11
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 02:55 PM
Feb 2013

And when conservatives blamed Clinton for 9/11 and called him soft on terror, many DUers on this board and Liberals every where cited Clinton's missile attacks as proof that Clinton was tough on terror.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
18. At the time
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:01 PM
Feb 2013

At the time, there was opposition to what he did. I wouldn't take much meaning out of the fact that 6 years later, when people were resurrecting those acts in the context of 9/11. One can't really expect them to reappear to re-criticize those acts again.

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