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el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:03 PM Feb 2013

Was the killing of Osama bin Ladin morally justified?

We did kill four other people in that raid; we also did it without the permission of or participation by the Pakistanis.

Of course those four other people could be seen as enemy combatants, and informing the Pakistani government might have created problems such to make the raid undoable.

Cards on table, this relates to the drone issue, obviously.

Bryant


17 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Totally justified
16 (94%)
More or less justified
0 (0%)
Not sure / too many variables
0 (0%)
More or less unjustified
0 (0%)
Totally unjustified
1 (6%)
It is impossible to justify this bullshit poll
0 (0%)
I like to vote!
0 (0%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Was the killing of Osama bin Ladin morally justified? (Original Post) el_bryanto Feb 2013 OP
That fucker allowed the GOP to nearly destroy the country. onehandle Feb 2013 #1
+1. nt bemildred Feb 2013 #2
I would have helped you. greatauntoftriplets Feb 2013 #4
Absolutely, Sir The Magistrate Feb 2013 #3
Yes, and Obama handled it right. He did not start two wars Autumn Feb 2013 #5
and he didn't okay it with fox news first. n/t Whisp Feb 2013 #6
Or with Saudi Arabia. He stepped up and took care of it. Autumn Feb 2013 #20
We can't risk a special forces team on every low-level scumbag... EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #8
That low-level scumbag, as you call him did a lot of damage. Autumn Feb 2013 #17
yes. of course rollin74 Feb 2013 #7
How does it relate to the drone issue? There were none used, people went and did it. Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #9
If the drones are going to be used for assassination or elimination of enemy targets el_bryanto Feb 2013 #11
So you intend to extrapolate from 'we sent troops to capture or kill the era's greatest and admited Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #23
I'm not looking for justification at all. el_bryanto Feb 2013 #27
I'm sorry, but how are they unrelated? Floyd_Gondolli Feb 2013 #35
and they weren't US citizens. Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #12
It's not an exact parralel I'll grant you el_bryanto Feb 2013 #14
Why do U.S. Citizens think that we are so sacrosanct, that we can kill people in their own country, RC Feb 2013 #31
from the US perspective it is more or less justified however La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2013 #10
Excellent point n/t leftstreet Feb 2013 #18
If an Iraqi commando team wants to take out the bush era top echelon they can Arctic Dave Feb 2013 #33
Absofuckinglutely. zappaman Feb 2013 #13
Hellz Yeah riqster Feb 2013 #15
My biggest issue had always been covertly operating within a sovereign nation Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #16
No killing where there is an alternative is justified intaglio Feb 2013 #19
Yes. TheCowsCameHome Feb 2013 #21
Yep, cause it made a great movie. Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #22
Nice emotional ploy. A more relevant question is whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #24
nods those are the two extremes el_bryanto Feb 2013 #28
Discounting exigent circumstance whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #30
Well the memo - el_bryanto Feb 2013 #32
I am good with it Ohio Joe Feb 2013 #25
Is it really that crazy to be opposed to killing, period? nt Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #26
No, He was killed so there would never be a TRIAL. Too many secrets to keep. Vincardog Feb 2013 #29
I would have much rather have seen a public trial. Arctic Dave Feb 2013 #34
If we had gotten Pakistan's permission he'd still be alive. name not needed Feb 2013 #36

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
1. That fucker allowed the GOP to nearly destroy the country.
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:06 PM
Feb 2013

I would have killed him with a corkscrew.

Over several hours.

Autumn

(45,084 posts)
5. Yes, and Obama handled it right. He did not start two wars
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:10 PM
Feb 2013

and kill thousands of people to get bin Ladin. He sent in a team of highly trained Navy Seals and they got the job done. He did not send a drone and kill innocent people who just happened to be near by.

 

EastKYLiberal

(429 posts)
8. We can't risk a special forces team on every low-level scumbag...
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:14 PM
Feb 2013

It's better the last thing they hear is the buzzing of a drone than the screams of an American soldier getting maimed or killed in the firefight.

Autumn

(45,084 posts)
17. That low-level scumbag, as you call him did a lot of damage.
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:22 PM
Feb 2013

He deserved to look in the eyes of his executioner and know his death was coming.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
9. How does it relate to the drone issue? There were none used, people went and did it.
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:15 PM
Feb 2013

If your question is about drones, that's what you should ask about.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
11. If the drones are going to be used for assassination or elimination of enemy targets
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:19 PM
Feb 2013

It's helpful to consider the most recent high profile assassination the United States Government performed.

Bryant

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
23. So you intend to extrapolate from 'we sent troops to capture or kill the era's greatest and admited
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:27 PM
Feb 2013

international terrorist' some validation for actions that kill by remote control those whose names we are not told who are certainly not the most wanted man on Earth including American citizens? Again, what's the similarity, what is the actual connection? The targets are not similar, the pursuit not as extended nor exhaustive, the tactics and weapons (which are the central part of your actual point) are not the same in at all.
Seems you are going a long way to not ask the question you actually have in mind.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
27. I'm not looking for justification at all.
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:34 PM
Feb 2013

I have grave reservations about this kill list.

I do question the line "pursuit not as extended nor exhaustive" - since we don't know the subjects, we can't know whether or not these targets merit assassination. It's possible they do.

Is it appropriate to use drones to kill innocent American civilians?
Is it appropriate to use drones to kill guilty as hell American terrorists?

I must admit this was sparked a bit by that list of ethical flaws someone posted - I'll go get the link in a moment (here it is)- but several of those ethical flaws could also be applied to killing Bin Ladin.

Bryant

 

Floyd_Gondolli

(1,277 posts)
35. I'm sorry, but how are they unrelated?
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:29 PM
Feb 2013

Yes, the difference is method. Special OPs vs. Drones. But the process in which they got there is exactly what those opposed to drone strikes have been talking about for several days -- a unilateral decision by one man to whack a citizen of another country.

Congress wasn't consulted. There were no committee meetings on the hill. They just did it. Like they're doing with the drones.

Full disclosure: I happen to agree with the targeting of Bin Laden (it took a Dem to get it right) and I'm also unopposed to the use of drones.

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
12. and they weren't US citizens.
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:19 PM
Feb 2013

I had to point this out in another thread about drones and Osama Bin Laden, geesh.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
14. It's not an exact parralel I'll grant you
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:21 PM
Feb 2013

But I'm not sure how many here are fine with killing people with drones so long as they aren't Us Citizens.

Bryant

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
31. Why do U.S. Citizens think that we are so sacrosanct, that we can kill people in their own country,
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:54 PM
Feb 2013

with seemly impunity? Just because their a name on someones list. Does no one see the connection between what we are doing there and the continuing terrorism?
The very fact that WE are in their country killing them, will cause any still non-terrost to fight back any way they can. Give them time.
The blow back for the animosity we are currently generating in the Middle East will be very unpleasant.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
10. from the US perspective it is more or less justified however
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:17 PM
Feb 2013

if say someone in iraq wanted to retaliate the unnecessary bloodshed from a war we waged for no reason at all towards one of our leaders, i wonder how many of us would think that is justifiable



 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
33. If an Iraqi commando team wants to take out the bush era top echelon they can
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:20 PM
Feb 2013

use my computer to google map them.

I would probably let them borrow my car.

riqster

(13,986 posts)
15. Hellz Yeah
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:21 PM
Feb 2013

Many of the same issues around the drone strikes do apply here, of course.

Asymmetric warfare is neither more nor less morally complex than "traditional" combat. Moral ambiguities (to say the least) will always accompany any enterprise that is centered around killing people. For examples, look at the Blitz, Dresden, or the Albigensian Crusade.

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
16. My biggest issue had always been covertly operating within a sovereign nation
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:21 PM
Feb 2013

without their knowledge or support.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
19. No killing where there is an alternative is justified
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:23 PM
Feb 2013

On the other hand there would have been little hope of transporting and putting on trial the self righteous piece of garbage that was OBL.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
24. Nice emotional ploy. A more relevant question is
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:27 PM
Feb 2013

If someone in the government decided to put el_bryanto on a kill list, should they be able to vaporize him, his family, and possibly his neighbors without providing due process?

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
28. nods those are the two extremes
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:38 PM
Feb 2013

As I am a totally innocent guy and very likable.

Should Drones be able to be used to kill totally innocent guys like me? No.
Should Drones be able to be used to kill totally guilty guys like bin Ladin? Yes. No. Not without some review. Maybe.

Bryant

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
32. Well the memo -
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 05:54 PM
Feb 2013

super problematic by the way - seems to nod towards exigent circumstances. The Target apparently has to pose an immediate threat of violent attack against the United States.

I guess the problem is who determines when an individual meets those circumstances.

Bryant

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
34. I would have much rather have seen a public trial.
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 06:23 PM
Feb 2013

However, the US almost always kills their partners in crime. Like the mafia.

The others they imprison without the ability to expose theirs and our secrets.

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