Over a third of all houses have at least one gun in them, and several million people carry concealed on a regular basis.



So... where are they?

Why would there be a lot of bullet riddled houses?

TRY TO THINK LIKE A GUN NUT

I wasn't raised to think like that.

...I can only imagine the carnage from all the people using guns in self-defense.

One homeowner said he found six bullet holes in his front porch, courtesy of LAPD.

And very fortunate they didn't kill anyone.

If the pros can't shoot accurately as you point out, how can we expect a mere civilian to stop a threat to their life with only 10 rounds.

sorry but it is a simple as that. I have zero sympathy for the idiotic argument that one needs a 100 round clip.

If at normal handgun ranges, I agree that a 100 round magazine (not clip) should not be needed.

Then again, there is no requirement of need to own legal items nor is there a Secretary of Need in any state or the Federal government.

as I soon shall be, then you can live with a 10 round mag with in the constitution.

I fully expect that voter ID will eventually be struck down, but that won't make higher capacity magazines acceptable.

the only issue now is if state covered by the voting rights act can require them.

Since you're so much more proficient.

Sounds like the entire LAPD does not need guns. Hooray, the citizens of LA will be thrilled!

-app

their judgement coupled with their lack of proficiency with their weapons is frankly terrifying.

Don't stock up on guns meant to fire multiple times in hopes one bullet hits, quit promoting more guns, quit acting like you are a cowboy, etc.

Let us not forget the Eula Love shooting.

My wife double tapped the intruder in our Washington DC home with only two rounds...

How much training did she have? How many firearms in the home has she had training? What firearm did she use for the incident? Did she use her preferred firearm? Was the intruder limited in his movement? How is she with moving erratic targets at a distance? Distraction?

I wouldn't trust everyone that has a firearm. Some might have training and some might not or very limited. Some might be able to handle the stress of the event and others might not. Most probably would do fine with an intruder in the home but not in a different environment. If someone has enough training and circumstances dictates how and when a person uses their firearm I would be likely to trust their judgement. Like if someone just goes out back shooting their firearm recklessly just to shoot it I would be running as far as possible away from them. If they don't publicize to their neighbors or brandish their firearms around I would trust them more. Unless I have reason to believe there was illicit activity occurring.

Some interior lighting. Walther PPK. Perp was focusing on me while I wrestled with his buddy. He issued life threatening verbal threats. Both had revolvers. He was threatening me fairly loudly and had no idea she was there. She was 90 degrees to him. She put two rounds into him. One in the chest, one in the head. Distance was less than 20 feet. She had professional training from her job. At the time "fun houses" and the like were rare.

The rest of the story is that they thought we were not there. I saw the first guy and jumped him as he came through an interior doorway. His screams caused the other guy who was being a lookout to draw his pistol and come in. He spotted us wrestling on the floor. The perp used words to the effect "I'm going to shoot you sucker". At that point my wife stepped out and shot him. The investigation cleared us.

Training is indeed key. There are markedly better training options available today than there ever has been. A serious shooter often has better training and is more practiced than your average beat cop.

Thankfully you both had some experience. And in that case I'm guessing you both had more training than the intruders.

if you were of the mind to ward off future intruders and you had the ability. An automatic graphic or hologram showing the body of the intruder when unauthorized intruder attempts to enter.

I'd feel bad about shooting someone, but hey, that's just me.

I mean, if they wanted to hurt you, sure. But it was probably just money. Right?

A clomp on the head for that, but two bullets and possible death for being poor and desperate? Ouch, I sure am glad that's not the life I have --either the intruder or you.

I was busy with the first guy...

Protecting yourself and your loved one is to be lauded.

You are so right. At least if they are going to shoot, shoot the tires. I just can't believe they shot at a truck that wasn't even the same kind of truck. And also wasn't it a different color. But at least the tires are a good start. You can't go far with 4 flats.

I doubt civilians would have opened fire like LAPD has a history of.

My late wife double tapped an armed intruder many years ago in our Washington DC home. It only took two rounds.

Responding cops noticed it to. They train them much better at State

and you're proud that she killed a human being.
What kind of world is this?

Armed intruders tend to murder any witnesses to their crimes.

I was on the floor wrestling with his buddy.

Well, I'm glad you're safe and your wife was so proficient that she protected you so successfully.

and as ProgressiveProfessor explains it, his wife's action was both necessary and fortunate in that it saved his life.

I was thinking of cases where someone shoots someone stealing a television. Even though legally justified, it would not be something I myself could live with doing.

beats all. No one is ever going to enter my brother's house, under any circumstances. His dog is a sweetheart to those she knows, but she'll destroy a stranger who threatens her family. I could walk with her into any neighborhood and be safe.
My own beloved Boxer-mix, not so much.

that is our first line of defense in case of B&E/home invasion, if she is somehow taken down, doubtful, then we have a 12ga. pump as the last line of defense.
My theory is that if someone is determined enough to take out our dog, then they aren't there for stealing items, but I'm of the same mind as you, I don't want to shoot anyone who is just looking to steal something, I don't want that on my conscious.

...If it's more than five, you're probably already dead.

The reality is that after the first shot, particularly indoors, the rest degrade considerably due to concussive shock though the effects are not universal and vary considerably.

It is incumbent on the shooter to know what is down range from his target.

........ they could have assisted the cops!

Smarter than what?

For clarity: Shooting at a vehicle is virtually never a good thing for civilians.

Who suggested that?

Sorry about that.

And shooting at a vehicle of innocent civilians...... is an even worse idea.

Take the Nicola Calipari rescue incident

This is also known as a "red herring"'.

I was talking about the ridiculous fantasy that more ordinary folks, packing guns, is the solution to stop gun violence.

Just keeping it real

Oh, that's what you were attempting to do?

if not worse than any other street gang.

You've taken the wrong lesson from this potential disaster.

show exactly why it is so dangerous for civilians to have assault rifles.

That's what, the second howler your interlocutor has come up with in this thread alone?

There has never been a house to house search and confiscation of weapons in CA.

The older woman was hit twice (in the back) and the younger woman was hit once (in the hand).

the younger woman got gut by the glass, no bullet.

They were trying to kill a large black man and instead shot at two women.

They put a 2.5' x4' cardboard target seven feet away and after twenty minutes it will have a uniform distribution of holes all over it. Not all of them, but a lot. They're not trained to shoot apparently, but to zap the suspect with one of those electric gadgets. When I was an ADA, I read about police attempts to shoot dangerous suspects and it was similar to what the OP was saying. One guy when confronting an armed suspect from a distance, put down his AR15 to grab his gadgety thing. This caused his pistol belt to tangle around his ankles and knock him over.

Maybe they're better in the city. This was out in East Butfuck, Ohio.

The average gun-owner who practices twice a month at the range is more trained than your average cop is.

50 rounds once a year is all the practice and qaulification many departments require or give. That is usually done on a range in a non stressed situation.

They might qualify once or twice a year with 100 rounds of ammo, I would bet your average firearm enthusiast shoots and practices more in many cases.

Ammo is pricey these days, departments cut budgets regularly, that could also lead to inadequate training and less range time.

anyone ever hear of buck fever?
More guns,more bullets is not the answer.

Whether they're like me, who has a gun but dislikes them and prefers hands or a baseball bat, or like some friends who own guns and do like them, your average gun owner puts A LOT of thought and work into knowing what we're doing and NOT spraying or reacting in stupid or panicked ways. Thanks to where I lived, and neighborhood activism that got me on the wrong side of some pimps and dealers, I've been in multiple situations where physical force to defend myself was needed. Similarly, friends have had to defend their homes with firearms or other means. End result? None of us mere mortals panicked in any of these situations. None of us sought them out when avoiding them was an option still open to us. Nobody had to actually fire a shot when threat and deescalation were sufficient to do the job. None of us reacted emotionally - if anything, we were calculating machines at the time and it wasn't until long afterward that we got pissed off and vented some steam. We aren't exceptions in any way, and we're tired of people who don't deal in such situations or such weapons (guns, knives, bats, whatever) making stupid assumptions that we aren't trained or would react emotionally or in a panic. You know what goes through our heads at times like that? "How do I diffuse this? How do I not hurt or kill this guy without getting hurt or killed myself? Where are the cats? Where is my buddy? Are any of them going to be in danger if I act or don't? If I shoot, is there any chance it'll hit someone outside?"

There are yahoos who want to spray. Most of those are either untrained and often impaired and/or in the throes of testosterone poisoning (i.e. your average young gangbanger who knows next to nothing about using the gun in his pocket), or in the grip of groupthink and feeling untouchable (i.e., a gang of cops/security goons/etc.). Don't assume that the average trained, legal, responsible gun owner falls into any of those categories.

Last edited Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:57 PM - Edit history (1)

By what statistic do you prove the behavior of "Average" gun owners rather than just the people you know? I know gun-owners too. And only one of them goes to a "gun range" to practice. So my average would be different than yours. And don't use NRA member stats either. They are not a representative sample.

Even in the Army we trained less with weapons than most think. When in active unit went to the range to qualify once a year. If you qualified in the minimum number of rounds, less than 100 you were good to go. You can not stay proficient that way. You need to keep skills up and that takes range time and rounds through the weapon. Some here want to limit rounds to practice and that just makes this worse. Look at LA's and NYPD's finest on how lack of weapons training works.

and would be far worse than worthless if they didn't create a deterrence in middle and upper class suburbs, which happens due to those folks having a little money and political influence as a group which means they see public servants at less of the SS monkey ass Lords of Blue. Those in the most need of service and protection get ignored or the jackbooted thug shakedown routine.

The police are a gang of cowardly fuckers seeking authority well beyond their capability and intellect for financial security and benefits like any other worker that come together as an armed band with the blessing of the state that think themselves better and superior to the people they are supposed to serve not a benchmark.

by that time the whole class is dead and the active shooter has plugged in another banana clip.

Or are teachers supposed to wear loaded side arms.

I always wonder how it would feel for a teacher's stray round to KILL one of the students.

With the level of proficiency I have, gained over a life time of shooting,
compared with what I see with most of the folks I see shooting at the
local range, yes, I am fairly confidant of my abilities to confront an
armed person trying to injure/kill me or mine.

My dad, who is a retired LEO, was a phenomenally good shot, unlike most
cops; he shot competitively for many years......and taught me, too