It's become more of a lose-lose proposition.

what does that leave you with? the middle class.

.................xchrom.

posting on my facebook page for my repug aquaintences and family to read.

organized labor needs to seriously rebuild. we are getting close to losing our influence as the backbone of the progressive democratic party.

big problem is union members who are registered repugs. the enemy within the ranks. we need to police that and there are ways to make that happen. i'll get into that later.

It'll probably start some kind of shitstorm amongst my "conservative" friends - but, at the moment, I'm past caring.

..... about the income inequality that has rolled over the country like a foul odor, I'm not sure I believe unions are the answer.

I don't know what IS the answer, but the whole idea of unions depends on a critical mass of participation and unions have lost that completely. I don't see how we get it back.

The time for unions to circle the wagons and defend themselves was over 20 years ago. Better find a new paradigm, IMHO.

................that i see could well be the immigration reform that's being pushed by many dem/progressive legislators.

give immigrants the path to citizenship................then ORGANIZE them into union labor.

The reason unions and workers have no power is that there are more workers than jobs. This is largely because we decided to export our jobs to other countries.

The solution is not to bring more workers here.

In fact, there can be NO solution here so longs as companies can continue to move to wherever the labor is cheapest and continue to sell their products here.

.... with anything you have said, but unions are going nowhere whether you like it or not. They have sat by and let all this happen and now they have NO POWER WHATSOEVER. In case you didn't notice.

But feel free to try to resurrect a corpse, if that is what you think works.

... anything about immigration. Of course immigration is NOT helping our jobs scenario.

That has been their strategy every time they've backed from their long-standing anti-immigrant stance in various bills. They get support from donors who make money off illegal laborers.

Still a zero sum game to them to destroy solidarity among workers. Despite strong immigrant showing in recent actions, they have not gotten much done because of the continued attacks on their families who have not got full status. This keeps people in personal turmoil and severe financial stress.

I'm not sure what the rank and file union member will be able to do. I know union officials who have the majority of their members voting for teabaggers who say destroying unions is their 'first priority for economic growth.'

Unions been maligned for so long it's set in many people's minds. The greatest failure I can see was the separation of the public and corporate unions. I saw when I was a steward how new unions had to be formed because older ones did not want the new workers affected in their unions. The problems that affect union membership is the same that effects all the demographics of the country.

JMHO.

the one now which is not exclusively but substantially is an ever decreasing need for labor of all sorts without which our present economic system has no answer for the many. No question the value of labor issues remain and are actually increasing, those organization can be a big part of mitigating but the page is already turning on that chapter to such a large degree that even working miracles with participation won't begin to protect from the coming wave. Raw numbers of supply and demand dictate it. High level specialties will have too few positions against the population to matter how much the few individuals can demand, while those below reach up and create a glut of the pool of those qualified which puts downward pressure on wages.
Everything else will have more looking than can possibly be needed, driving those wages toward any legal minimum or zero.

Every "shortage" is resolved with a little hype and a touch of old fashion bootstrap mythology. It is always a matter of a rounding error's worth of need to transforms very quickly to a glut with ever increasing demands for career wide decrease in wages. Next thing you know the RN's we were in a desperate shortage of are scarcely employable and BSN's are sought instead but if you really want to get ahead you need to be a nurse practitioner, RN's are a dime a dozen.

what's really needed are some guillotines and large holes in the ground for the aftermath. Unions aren't going to salvage this situation. Hate Radio has brainwashed even the members themselves that unions are bad for them.

Think more aggressively - MUCH more.

Thank you for making that point.

Also notice when you overlay the union graph with the top marginal tax rate; the tax rate peaked at the same time as union membership.

from discipline and other management scenarios. That unions have too much power.

My response to that is so what. I want the unions to have that power, and I want them to protect me from managements arbitrary policies. The alternative is the direction we are now headed, increasing economic inequality.

What It's Going to Take to Claw Back Middle Class Wealth from the 1%
When unions decline, inequality soars and we all lose.

Lets start with strong unions and labor groups, and policies that support unions and labor groups.

Then let the bargaining begin.

on edit - I would also start with a rollback of citizens united. This is clearly a policy that favors the voice of wealth over the voice the people.

this thread? It applies here and would be a good insertion to this conversation right about here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10242988

It's definitely some healthy food for thought.

Can you imagine the ban hammer that would be wielded and the ensuing chaos if it had been a poll on abortion rights? on homosexual rights? equal rights? Why are those who are anti-labor allowed to continue posting here?

The Democratic Platform CLEARLY states that it is pro-union, strongly supports collective bargaining, and supports other labor laws.

As the grandson and nephew of coal miners, a grandchild of Ludlow, I will tell you what it takes. It takes sacrifice, blood, and at times arms to take back from the wealthy. The Union battles were bloody and rights were TAKEN back by hard men and women who were willing to die for their cause, it was not GIVEN back by a politician.

Europe is the last hold out for the middle class, but if you look closely, you will see that globalization is making its mark there as well. It will take a little longer, but conservatives like the leadership in Germany will slowly make inroads to weaken unions in Europe, as well.

....and a party to represent that movement, i.e., not the democratic party (in its current form it is complicit, and the likelihood of its changing is miniscule).

We HAVE to have labor unions or we have no middle class. And without labor unions, we have unsustainable, unstable income inequality and horrific trade imbalances.

Rec'd and bookmarked.

... what it has taken throughout history.

They work so darn hard!

The best we can hope for is to scare the ruling elite into throwing us some bones.

I recommend reading, Thomas R. Dye's, "THe Irony of Democracy".

and 98% are left with what's left and blamed for the ills of the nation, then how did Rmoney get 47% of the vote? I don't need an answer, I was voting for Carter in 1982 while my working class, union friends were sucked into "morning in America!" only to find out it wasn't morning for them. But the propaganda machine was cranking, and, after 8 years of the lovable actor president, the die was cast.
When the masses of working people who can't be bothered to register and vote for their best interests finally wake up and when "poor Republicans," an oxymoron for sure, finally realize that racism won't cut it and "Jesus plus nothing" won't heal their sick child, then finally, we might see the dawn of "morning in America."

And the real problem, which is the establishment of dynastic wealth, can only be dealt with by inheritance taxes. As it is now we essentially have none.

You are absolutely right, but while progressives have been saying these things for decades, a large part of the public is too ignorant to know that a divide and conquer strategy was implemented by the corporate world, and globalization of the economy was the winning move. Because American workers are competing with wages and benefits (or lack thereof) with workers from the developing world, they are no longer needed if they are going to demand just compensations. You don't want to work for what we're giving you...fine, we'll move to Indonesia. Globalization has been so successful that the billions of people of China and India have become consumers, meaning Americans aren't even absolutely necessary as consumers anymore. And the American workers have been made to hate the few unionized workers that remain because compared to themselves people like teachers appear overcompensated.

What's the answer? Since even Democratic presidents like Clinton and Obama continue to push the free trade agreements that ultimately give away more decent jobs than we gain, other than a radical restructuring of the world economy (like what we almost had with the Great Recession), the future doesn't look good for the true middle class in America. When I saw how quickly the status quo was put back in place by a Democratic president, no less, I realized that the days of FDR are gone. Checkmate.

Supreme Court's Citizens United decision. Step two, seize the assets of all who benefited from this most corrupt decision. Make Cayman Islands accounts and investments illegal and punishable by 50 years of hard labor.
Drag some corrupt bankers into the street for arbitrary horse whippings, and seize their assets of those and their families.
Any politician who objects or intervenes gets a blindfold and cigarette. Within 24 hours the turnaround will commence.

The 1% own Congress and the President.

The only thing that will harm it is starvation. Only the people hold that power. They will not exercise it. People are down for suffering for a cause, as long as it doesn't include their participation.

Wall Street allows Union members to retire. Without those returns there is no retirement.

Along with the Redwood trees, salamanders, eagles and salmon. My Main St was stripped of mom and pop shops and filled with big box corporate stores, my fellow citizens are homeless and are losing safety nets because of corporate lobbyists pushing for austerity. Even as the Dow reaches lauded goals, the stench of death in my hometown grows ever stronger. They are not Main St's return, they are its demise.

Their retirement rests on the investments in their retirement plan.

And that they did it in a time when the realities of climate change were not yet known.
Now we know. Support Wall St, support climate change, support denial science.
I am happy for people that have nice retirements. It just saddens me that the cost for that is the future sustainability of our natural world and the extinction of things that make this life better for me. I get it though, not many people care about plants and animals. Not when a slightly more comfortable retirement is at stake.

FUCK Wall Street.

And it ATE my clients' jobs and retirement. It destroyed my client base financially. I had to sell off the remnants of my stocks to get by through the recession.

You REALLY don't get it. Either that, or you are mocking people you see as your inferiors.

I won't say which of the two I think is the case.

Like the latest college loan debt bubble or the government debt bubble.

I see people here saying government deficits don't mean anything, nor does the amount of debt.

Yet it's all Wall Street Wall Street.

No... Its debt debt debt.

You say: "Wall Street allows Union members to retire. "

Or not...

And therein lies the problem.

But yes things may not be as rosy as once thought.

I'm confused.

Also, very few people can go through life at this time thinking "things *may not* be as rosy as once thought". Sorry your rose-colored capitalist glasses are fading to clarity.

Life sucks here (well, economically speaking).

But with the lack of return since the crash, the pension funds aren't as healthy and therefore the future not as rosy. Five years of no gains is a long time.

You are well ahead in the race for the Dumb Post of the Year, and probably for the Decade, as well.

Unless its based on investing in real estate.

Cash won't do it....you need more of a return on your savings.

It's the people who don't understand this and hate Wall Street who will never retire.

And 46% of Americans have no investements in the stock market.

And I don't know if union members say they own stocks even if their pensions are invested in them. It's not something they control after all.

I know that every time the stock market surges upward, I get all tingley between my legs.

A rising tide lifts all boats donchaknow. As long as you are one of the 54% that have a boat.

And no early retirement.

If more people realized that maybe they would realize Wall Street can't be the enemy. You've got to use it to your advantage or you will be pretty miserable.

And millions more on the cusp. Maybe you could manage their finances.

I see no other way to make it work.

if they have no money.

But I'm sure some of that Wallstreet money will trickle down to them and then they can invest in Wallstreet.

So the middle class needs to hope for a recovery in the housing market. That's how they "claw back" their wealth.

The degree to which it recovers is where hope comes in.

But that isn't a source of wealth people can or should tap anyway, not unless they are downsizing.

The war on Unions is only part of the war for the 1%.

Welcome. As another low poster (actually I had a count over 10k before the change in screen name) it is good to see a person who understands how widespread this war on us is and what weapons are being used against us, things like the diminishment of the "death tax", Right to Work laws, disenfranchisement of minorities, and a transfer of responsibility for the day to day workings of Government from the public sector to the private sector.

The war on the middle class and poor is so widespread that it is damn near impossible to pay attention to all of it.

It's an increasingly placeless world.

From Maria Galardin's TUC (Time of Useful Consciousness) Radio:

-Laelth

The top one percent cares about that above all else. They want everyone in the bottom ninety nine percent powerless and groveling. It's not only because they don't want to pay wages (of course they don't) , but also because when everyone is overworked and stressed out and desperate they can grab even more power, politically and economically. That's why it's impossible to be anti-union and be a progressive IMO.

Just like Lech Walesa fought for Poland.. we are going to have to claw our way back to what should have prevailed all along.

G.W. Bush and his Neocons set the world stage on 9-11-2001. Since then.. we have all been dancing to the tune of the NeoCons... and it is getting very old.. very tired.. and there is very little left to steal.. the Republicans have stolen, and plundered ...what used to be a Democratic nation.

When the old bargainers started dying out those who followed just did not seem to have the backbone to stand up to the pressures. The art of bargaining has been lost along with weak links in membership to take the hard stand.

The non members who did not know squat about union "knew" what they was fed by anti union writers and would argue all day long. (I know, I was married to one who read Bill Buckley) After many years of me refusing to change my mind he finally found out what I did as a job Stewart and his opinion changed. I also told my members when their actions was going to get them terminated and I would not be able to help them. I had medical, vacation and pension but most of all we had a working contract which needed to be followed by union members as well as management. The first line supervisors loved when we got a raise and better benefits for they got them also. When unions lobbied for safer working conditions it was for those who was not union members.

When you hear those like Scott Walker telling you if every state had the right to work there would be more jobs in the state than ever could be filled, he is lying. The states where they have right to work has lower wages, less benefits and less jobs. Before the rest of us old farts die off some one needs to learn from real union members, it is their future. With our Republican Congressman trying to end SSI and Medicare it is going to be really hard, young people are not making enough money to save and no pensions

K&R!

We need to face it, It's over. The bad guys won. Globalization is a reality we're never coming back from. They sold us out for the cheap labor and having no oversight. And the worst part is, we let them do it and in many cases cheered it on. It's the fault of my parents' generation for voting for that fucking piece of shit Reagan. That was the end right there. There was hope up until that point and now there is none. Enjoy what you can, while you can.