so very much.

It is not a defense of police killings. Nor does it diminish the pain they feel.

Totally off point. Not germane. Useless.

No one I've seen here. They're saying that he is bringing up important points about the vileness of the LAPD. Just as you are not defending the sociopaths at the LAPD, the ones who say that Dorner brings up many good points are not defending the murders that he's committed. Have you really been seeing people who are defending Dorner's murders?

No offense, but I hate it when people imply that only the beautiful and bright are to be mourned.

As if some lives are more valuable than others.

but if she had been, I would have found some other way to humanize her. If she had children, I would have emphasized she was a Mother. If she volunteered, I would have emphasized that.

I was not implying that only the beautiful and bright are to be mourned. I was humanizing her with the characteristics I knew

Can't believe there is any discussion.
And you get a heart from me.

for understanding my intent.

and tragedies above others, depending on the perceived worth of the deceased.

Not so much a good subject for replies on this thread or on the topic of this thread though, in my opinion.

of many reasons I hate, hate, hate "victim impact statements" in criminal court. So if I drunkenly mow down with my car a homeless man with no family it's less of a crime than if I mow down a pregnant mother of two with a grieving husband, kids and parents? Leave the pathos to civil court.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and many people use the term to describe the WHOLE person - inside and out.

I don't see how being a coach or being a cashier makes anyone LESS of a human being. I think you would've posted her job, no matter what.

at all. I might have typed the same title myself without giving it that sort of thought. I just thought you were mourning a person who was murdered for no good reason.

Sometimes on here it baffles the heck out of me how some of my posts are read in such a completely different way than I meant them though.

My granddaughter is beautiful. Guess I'm "sexualizing" her. Some people don't know when to give it a rest. You're comment is entirely appropriate.

are more tragic, which they are, at least to those of us who already know we've had a lot more time than she did. Her life was supposed to be starting.

I know what cali meant and thought she was saying and I agree with it but her actual words carried a different weight depending on your perspective.

And I don't know what any of them appear as physically. Beautiful can mean a lot of things. Just sayin.

I got from word one that she was humanizing her. And her explanation said just that.

And yeah, I've "met" and met people from DU and many of them, if not most, are beautiful, articulate, passionate people. And actually, for me, beauty is what is inside. I know that sounds homily like but it's real for me. Especially in my personal life - I was married to two very attractive (in the traditional sense) men who were pretty arm candy but not very deep. My last husband (recently estranged) is not classically beautiful but kind and gentle and sweet and when he smiles, the world lights up. He was the best husband I ever had. Whenever he gets through what he's doing right now, I have no doubt his deep soul will reassert itself. While I don't believe it's best that we get back together, I won't necessarily have a front row seat to his return to mental health, but while I've lost much trust in him, my faith in his basic goodness is unshaken.

I myself was pretty as a young woman - I was just looking through old pictures and some of them were surprisingly breathtaking and yet, I never thought that was what was a very interesting thing about me. I built my house upon my spirit and intelligence and my kindness to others and to myself and, of course, my political warrior spirit. I find that has great benefits now, as I head toward my fiftieth birthday. My youthful looks are vanishing but my grandmother's laughing and joyful face is replacing it and as she was the only true mother I ever had, to look in the mirror and see her beginning to show in my face is easy to take.

Boy did I digress. Sorry, but it got me to thinking about beauty in all it's forms.

that launches a thousand drones.

When at a wake and the deceased is described as bright and beautiful, do you infer in that case also they are implying that only the beautiful and bright are to be mourned...?

No offense, but I find it frustrating when people are unable or unwilling to differentiate between 'imply' and 'infer'.

In their own way. Everybody's beautiful. Every life matters.

Bake

Dornan did not have the right to kill anyone.

with what the LAPD may or may not have done regarding Dorner's claims.

Very sad for Ms. Quan, her fiance, and everyone who loves and cares about them. My condolences to them all.

who had never done anything to him. His plan depended on it, so he could hurt the people who loved the ones he killed.

That takes a special kind of cold to do that.

he couldnt believe it.

what, a murderer? he asked. puzzled. not at all getting defense of the murderer.

or some crap like that. which is stupid as this guy has NO credibility .

but this is like that gun rights woman who had to make up stories about mothers with assault weapons protecting their kids. or the fake newtown dad who isn't really a newtown dad. people in these cases can also say "but how about thier message" . well they lost crediblity and with Dorner it's even worse as he took the life of at least 2 people who had nothing to do with whatever his complaints are that he and others seem to think justifies what he is doing.

Victims are victims, and they shouldn't be overlooked, and cannot be ignored. Not even if every last allegation he made was true, did he have a right to do what he did to them. Not even IF and that's a pretty big-assed 'if'.

for his daughter to be murdered because... she was his daughter. And by someone whom he defended.

responding to posts with something that is so tenuously connected. You want to kick that thread about that tragic injustice, kick it, but it really has nothing to do with my op.

of someone else.

It doesn't get much more relevant than that does it?

Pretty sure he accomplished that don't you?

and kick!

Thank you for posting this!

It is sick to see the support that has popped up for Dorner on Facebook, Twitter, and even right here on DU. At the end of the day, Dorner is a triple homicide suspect and is the guilty party in this story.

The people he murdered were not guilty parties. Monica Quan did not abuse Dorner in any way; her fiance did not wrong him; the Riverside police officer whom he shot and killed was not a member of the LAPD, the department he claims screwed him over. Dorner is a hypocrite and a murderer. He claims he only wants to settle a score with the LAPD, and then murders three innocent people in cold blood. That is not justice.

At worst, Dorner was wrongfully terminated from his job with the LAPD. Big deal. If everyone went on killing sprees because they felt they were fired for the wrong reason (or no reason at all), this country would not have survived the Great Recession. Lucky for us, most people are not killers. Christopher Dorner is.

Let's not lose sight of the facts in this story. Dorner is a murder suspect and the lives of those three innocent people have been stolen. The lives of their families and friends have been horribly scarred.

How can the police not catch him? He returned 8000.00 in lost money to a N. Korean church in 2002, gets fired for turning in a fellow officer for brutality, and then FIVE years later goes off the deep end? That seems rather bizarre, as did the so-called "manifesto".

Another retired LAPD officer on RT television said that the writing styles in the letter change, and it appears to have been written by several different people.

Monica Quan's killer should be found and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I pray for her family.

Whatever else may not be clear, that is. RT television is not a real source for information.

Invalidate whatever media source you want. Many people will still watch RT television, DemocracyNow, and listen to Pacifica radio -- especially DU readers.

All media outlets only report facts with complete objectivity and fairness.

I was just reading this DU thread which supports the above statement:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12525506

Dorner will be dead without a trial.

His truck and everything in it was burned to a cinder.

The department collecting evidence and hunting him down is the same one that burned him for being a whistle-blower.

having carefully read his manifesto.

Perhaps that was his manifesto and he's a murderous nutcases.

Perhaps someone else wrote it to discredit him and slander a bunch of good progressives like Dianne Feinstein at the same time.

I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

I am convinced he wrote it. I think your ct shit is just silly.

I have nothing else of his to compare it to.

You are being too kind!

pile of moral excrement here at DU.

I love it.

Dorner turned in money years ago and was fired from his job. Clearly, given this information, we have to conclude that he might not have done this.



Bonus points for the RT reference, BTW.

mmmKay. Takes all kinds.

What does that have to do with the skepticism you expressed upthread?

everything that has happened. Something is wrong. Did a Mark Furman type take someone out because Dorner was about ready to release damaging info taking down the top of the Blue Sespool? Starting to be a real possibility.

who have recently died getting shot etc ?

dddddddddd

Should have seen this coming, frankly.

that makes this a possibility? Please link to it.

And no, I don't buy your conspiracy theory for a nanosecond. He had five years to release damaging info. He didn't. and there is no indication that he was the type of person who waited on anything.

almost anything is possible. That does not make it remotely likely.

on a bulletin board who has a propensity for jumping to conclusions. Thank you for your post. Another will not be necessary.

Why open fire on innocent civilian trucks? Did you hear the All Things Considered piece on this on Friday? Even NPR is using the term "alleged" prior to shooter when referring to Dorner. The ATC journalist sounded as shocked as I was when learning that an incident from 2008 would instigate a murder spree five years later.

The whole thing is bizarre.

Otherwise you could be in lawsuit territory.

reaction you would think Dorner killed the Pope.

It should be on their website: http://www.npr.org All Things Considered is the name of the program.

dddddddddddd

continue, they may have let him out with no chance to get a pension.

on Twitter. One Facebook page calls him "the hero LA deserves, but not the one it needs right now ... He's a silent guardian, watchful protector against corruption, he's our Dark Knight." I don't know about that, but there is enough unusual aspects of this case that there needs to be an in-depth investigation as to his guilt, at least. Surely, the vultures can pause until it's known whether he killed anyone or not. When stuff like this happens, I always study the public's response. I refuse to believe so many people are supporting this guy without some overt or innate reason. Are we now in Guilty until proven Innocent mode? He for sure cannot be "walked in" by Charlie Sheen or anyone. He'd be popped in a heartbeat by LAPD.

prior to getting all the facts is that an innocent man can die for the deeds of another. We'd be none the wiser.

work for LAPD, but if they frag him on sight, he becomes a powerful martyr and LAPD better change or get ready for being more careful when they approach windows of cars for speeding. One of my diabetics in Japan emailed me. They are apparently following this closely. If I was LL Cooljay I wouldn't even leave the house.

are innocent people getting murdered, and you are absolutely right that it doesn't matter what "motivations" he "may" have had. He still shot them. They are just as dead regardless, and who did what to him excuses nothing. Going on a damn shooting rampage isn't excusable.

We've all been pushed over an edge, even if we haven't dealt with it in the same way. Anyone who says they can't relate to that feeling is lying.

You're the first person I've met.

Both are losing control. Though everyone here thinks they wouldn't be capable of that, no one has walked in his shoes, have they?

even in anger.

and yes, i KNOW i am not capable or willing to go on a murdering rampage, for any reason. lol

You've always been in control, and never done anything you've later regretted.

Uh-huh.

they just do not want to hear that no, a lot of us are not.

you keep moving the bar on this. we went from over the edge, to loss of control, to regret. lol

have i ever gotten angry and the regretted the choices i made? ok.

had nothing to do with physical abuse. had nothing to do with mental abuse. maybe the extent is yelling and cussing. sure.

have once insisted to me how totally incapable they were of cheating on their mate.

I know I won't convince you of this, but you really have no idea what you're capable of until you've been through someone else's experience.

I would bet Dornan never thought he was capable of this, either.

his manifesto is full of violent thoughts and actions.

It is so easy to dismiss, justify, excuse with your logic. Not a chance. People all the time experience horrors and make it thrum a lifetime not making these selfish self satisfying choices.

And yes, I've been in a similar situation. I didn't resort to violence of any kind; I resorted to using the regulatory agencies and other legal remedies. I do regret I put up with what I'd been putting up with for as long as I did before I took action.

and looking to use known problems like corrupt LAPD as an excuse.

or anyone else or even just make a website to expose police corruption.

and first killing 2 people who had nothing to do with police corruption. yeah the boyfriend was a cop but he had just graduated last summer and worked security at usc.

We don't know what options he's explored, but I would bet that anything he might have tried along those lines went nowhere.

Without condoning his actions - at all - I think it's very possible to relate to being helpless to right a wrong.

at doing something about it in it ?

instead it's all about him wanting to harm and kill others.

It wasn't like he was a calm relaxed guy, he was a bully. Many people who go into law enforcement tend to be.

dddddddd

This is a discussion board. You don't seem to have much to say beyond your vanity whines.

you got nothing.

What Can Anyone Add To That.

NOTE: I am not suggesting anyone here SUPPORTS him. I just find it surprising that so many take anything he has to say seriously.

he wanted to create as much suffering as he could.

(speaking as Dorner about Lawyer Randall Quan)(paraphrasing) "I never got to have a family because of you....I'll take yours..." which I wonder about. More professional readers are now thinking the manifesto may have been written by multiple persons, which accounts for the now LAPAD panic, the shooting of not even closely resembling suspects, and now a million dollars bounty. Something is up and is coming out soon, I suspect.

this is. He's sadistic. He killed who he killed to cause as much suffering as possible. He's filled with hate and he holds grudges tight to his chest- from elementary school.

His manifesto isn't really about civil justice, it's all about how wonderful he is and how wronged he's been.

And no, as an adult there is no requirement that one see both or all sides to every single situation. I see it as important to
examine a situation critically and if possible, come to a conclusion about said situation.

My compassion for hate filled murderers is limited- and he's demonstrated that he is full to the brim with hate.

Last edited Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:13 AM - Edit history (2)

He did something completely horrific and needs to pay for that, the loss of three lives and the impact on the families is tragic and beyond sad.

Trying to understand what might have driven him, or anyone, to do something like this doesn't take away from the wrongness of what he did at all. It's not like understanding hasn't ever had it's benefits. Look at the school shootings a few years ago where bullying was thought to be a contributor ... did we learn something from that? I believe so, I also think it helped bring the issue of bullying to the public's attention. And no-one made the shooters 'heroes'. I don't feel guilty or wrong for having a little compassion for him, either. If what he says happened to him is true and it led to a deep depression, as I've been reading ... it's a little easier to understand why someone might go over the edge. Which STILL doesn't lessen the horror of what he did.

and Michelle Quan that went to Anderson Cooper. I don't know about the daughter--at least nothing other than what I've heard--but the father was famous for being a crook himself and defending every thug cop on the LAPD. I lived in the Rampart District for years when I first came to California. Virtually everyone of those jerks were Mark Furman types. They killed, tortured, set up people with drugs, raped defendants--everything you can think of. They did the same for years afterwards. These are the goons Captain Quan, later Attorney Quan defended. I've read Dorner's manifesto a few times. I think he finally snapped from years of being in the LAPD sespool. He should have taken out the father, not the daughter, but when a man snaps he does what his snapped mind tells him. Then again, was Dorner framed, as is being considered now? Why has LAPD not said one word about the unusual way Michelle and her husband were taken out? Why didn't Dorner just shoot them out in the open? Now, there's a million dollar bounty on Dorner. LAPD wants him so bad they are will to kill people stat who may be him even though they don't look like him or drive a truck the same color as his old one. My hunch is there is way more to come out about this story. Cooper's package is probably being sat on by the LA politicos--a vicious lot. But the public has cut Dorner a lot of slack based on his manifesto and what is known about him. I'm waiting for the dossier on Randall Quan to be released and then I'll either affirm how I feel now or ameliorate it somewhat. Beware the hysteria and the hysterics.

But let's not forget, right now there is a crime spree going on across the LA area. Three random people shot, and hundreds of homes broken into.

the culprit is the LAPD.

Right now, I am far more fearful of the LAPD than I am of Christopher Dornan.

Heaven only know what else he's got up his sleeve...


rocktivity

It's amazing how society can glamorize murder in a way where it turns the murderer into the victim. This is a sad story all around - but the fact some are defending his actions, or idolizing those actions, is absolutely, positively disgusting.

This man might have many problems - many undeserved problems, even - but that does not make him a hero or an anti-hero or whatever the hell you want to call him. He's a murderer.

dddd

And the first time I went to the Unitarian Church, the pastor had seen Natural Born Killers just prior to his Sunday sermon. So, my first Unitarian sermon was how inside all of us lives a natural born killer. It's just finding that one thing that will push any rational, sane person over the edge. It usually involves defending someone we love, like our spouse or children.

It was interesting and thought provoking to say the least.

I am not defending Dorner but I think something happened that pushed this man over the edge (obviously). Just because this happened 5 years ago, doesn't mean something couldn't have happened recently that was basically the straw.

Two ambitious kids, in love, planning their lives, trying to be good people.

were having their convictions overturned by DNA evidence, and he didn't want innocent blood on HIS hands. Unfortunately, many people cannot fathom that ALL people, even ones that the LAPD says are the most dangerous evil-doers to ever live, deserve a day in court.

I don't hear you saying how sorry it is that two elderly ladies who were just delivering newspapers were sprayed with bullets. You don't care about justice.

I suppose it had to happen.
It is both saddening and infuriating that people would rather believe this man was somehow set up, then believe he is a cold blooded killer.
Just as vile as the Sandy Hook Truthers...