A daughter and her husband--family of a man who represented him during the disciplinary hearing.

Anything he had to say--is moot at this point. He is a murderer.

O heck, it was actually two newspaper delivery ladies that got shot up. Ooops!

After all, he hates the LAPD, which makes him cool apparently.

oops! That was your house they blew up....sorry!

For some irrational reason, this has many people freaking out like the Freepers did regarding black helicopters in the 1990's.

The paranoid right and paranoid left are more similar than either would like to admit.

Even though Dorner is literally a mad man on a murder spree what set him off is a very real problem not only within the LAPD but in most law enforcement agencies nationwide!! I would never defend what this person is doing but let us not forget what the source of the problem is.

Like this...
News Clip:

Certainly not here.

They've never met him, talked to him, or interacted with him. They don't know anyone who has done so. They don't know his psychological profile, his history of mental health, his life history, etc.

It is all speculation.

Would that, hypothetically, make him at least deserving of some sympathy by you, even if you don't agree with his actions? And if not, how much abuse by the police do you expect people to endure before they are allowed to "snap?"

When he starts murdering people because he has a grudge against their father, I am incapable of sympathy for him on any level.

This guy was not beaten, not tortured, not raped or molested. He was fired.

Nobody is allowed to 'snap' by murdering innocent human beings. Under any circumstances.

he should be executed.

We are talking about someone who is seriously mentally ill.

the chances of Dorner being taken alive fall somewhere between miniscule and non-existent.

dems weren't in favor of the death penalty?

This man has not been arrested.This man may not have shot anyone.You would believe hearsay of what the #LAPD say is wrong.The lapd have shot 65 bullets at civilians since Friday on two or three occasions.I pray the citizens don't get shot.

link?

over using an UNARMED drone with a camera to catch him.

Because his privacy rights are thus being violated.

I know it's hard for you to see this, but questioning the LAPD is not a Dorner love letter.

Sorry 29 DUers can't grasp that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022346579

Because you know, he's the real victim here, according to that post, and isn't really that different than other victims of oppression, other than that quibble of mass murdering sprees.

I think the supporters are far outnumbered. I think it's ridiculous that anyone would support him as part of the case against the LAPD, but I think it's more a few vocal disruptors than a growing population.

...they want to at least feel that the faults in the system are so egregious as to make killers out of decent human beings.

And then there's the whole 'drone' issue. Someone else said it best: drones are the new black helicopters comin' to getcha!

nuance is not one of DU's greater assets these days...

Cheers...

28 recs and counting chiming in their sympathy and understanding for a mass murderer.

So bring it on. Not afraid of the smear brigade.

and he gets his day in court.

out that his admission to conducting them turns out to be accurate?

and I've shown the proper enthusiasm....

He's a fucking murderer. No sympathy or understanding from me.

And the 'how do we know Obama didn't stage this?' post was the icing on the crazy cake.

Sid

Their moral objection to murder and desire to hold murderers accountable evaporates if they share a common target of hatred with the murderer.

Zalatix isn't still around to add to the cop hating crazy talk.

That crazy cake is covered with hypocrisy frosting.

is thick.

separate Dorner from the past current wrongdoing of the LAPD.

It's lame.

Betcha.

their fellow pro-terrorist whack jobs.

While he was serving as a trainer, he was part of what is wrong with LAPD.

according to the DU Greatest Page.

that he wants to make people suffer as much as possible is detailed in his "manifesto". and that's sick, sick shit.

The guy pre-excuses any vile shit he's going to do. He's a narcissistic, cruel murderer. And if you can read with comprehension, that is fucking crystal clear .

You're a brave man to take such a bold stand, geek.

My favorite was the nutjob who blamed Obama for staging Dorner's murders, and had a jury give a 0-6 pass.

What's with the silly snide comment? There are lots of DUers equivocating, excusing, justifying and defending Dorner. I also find that revolting.

'Nuff said.

attack against yourself does raise an inference.

I'd like to see the clusterfuck surrounding him end. Catch him, and let us move on. To be honest, I don't find his "story" so compelling that I want to argue about him all day; he's garnering more time and attention than he's worth, imo.

Today's witch hunt, brought to you by Pepsodent.

It reads like a troll though - can't see post count on iphone...

plain old execrable begins.

Fuck him an his motives, we don't need to know anything about him.

find him, very doubtful that the pleas to understand where he is coming from are rooted in a desire to see him captured, but rather are rooted in ideology much like the Randall Terry crowd refused to condemn Scott Roeder.

The parallels in language are striking.

I can guarantee you the people hunting his ass care about his feelings.

And, again, if people were really concerned with catching the guy, the whining about a remote control airplane with thermal cameras and no weapons wouldn't have occurred.

Not sure what cause is advanced by being associated with a mass murderer.

I'm not interested in his motives anymore than I'm interested in the motives of Eric Rudolf or Tim McVeigh or the Unabomber -- the list goes on.

For each and every flavor of killer, there will be those who romanticize their actions. Seems almost like a law of nature.

They aren't the same thing. Understanding simply means you get what's going on. It's the use of rationality and logic. Sympathy is an emotion.

they understand why he killed, and are sympathetic to large portions of it.

Dead giveaway: when people say "I don't condone what he did." Spitting on a sidewalk is the kind of behavior one doesn't condone. Mass murder is an act that requires a stronger repudiation.

"Except the desire to 'understand' comes from those who already believe they understand why he killed, and are sympathetic to large portions of it"

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Do I agree with what Dorner is doing, am I cheering him on? Hell, no! But, I can understand how people can be pushed over the edge. I can see why Osama Bin Laden would want to attack the US. Do I agree with him doing so or did I cheer him on? Hell, no! Doesn't mean I can't see things from their viewpoint. So, yeah, I guess fuck me for being able to see grey.

while purging the world of infidels? Or do you believe he was Chomsky with a beard?

inserting itself into international affairs (that some argue right here on DU, that we don't belong). I can see why a country or individual would want to strike out at the US. Do I condone or agree, no, I don't but I can see how that would drive someone to the point of madness. I can see how the lack of mental healthcare and easy access to guns are creating mass shooters too. I can see why Iran wants nuclear weapons, everyone else has them. Do I want them to have them, nope, sure don't.

here.

Understanding why someone did something doesn't equate to condoning what he did.

Unfortunately, it often involves being able to deal with lots of conflicting/opposing thoughts at the same time.

Black and white thinkers think gray area people do it on purpose (maybe just to piss them off?). I can assure them we don't. It makes my head hurt when it happens.

Wait, I bet I already know the answer.

Dorner or Bin Laden. This has nothing to do with feelings. I simply stated I don't see things in black and white. Seeing things in shades of grey doesn't mean I agree with horrendous atrocities, it just means I see where people can justify what they do. Yes, I can see how Rudolph could use his religious beliefs to justify what he did. Doesn't mean I agree with those beliefs. Anyone can justify something, and sometimes you can see why they justify it. Again, doesn't mean you agree or condone.

I'll use a real life example... my father was horribly abused as a child. In turn he abused me as a child--however, he didn't abuse me nearly as badly as his father abused him. I can see where he learned his behavior from, I can see why he lashed out with violence instead of words (though he can be very verbally abusive too). Does this mean I think I deserved the abuse I got from him? It sure doesn't. As a matter of fact, I've yet to forgive him but I can see the why of what he did without agreeing or condoning.

It's not like there's some sort of mass communication medium for him to post his evidence against the LAPD. It's not like there are places to post audio, video, and documents regarding bad behavior by the LAPD. It's not like there are radio, TV, ipodcasts, etc. where he can bring his message. It's not like there aren't civil libertarian groups, legal aid societies, criminal defense lawyers, and other attorney groups that he could go to with his case.

Nope. There's none of that. The only way was to kill people.

We have an alledged killer being pursued by a known corrupt police force. I'll wait for the facts in a trial thank you.

Ahh...the voice of reason

but the LAPD is worse as far as I'm concerned.

dddddddddddd

apparently are not. Sign of the times...

Neither would be Bybee, Woo, Bush, Rove, Addington etc.

Heck. Mussolini and Ceaucesceau were never convicted. How dare we pass judgment on them.

Same with Osama, right?

guilt or innocence. But I would want Cheney to be tried just as I would want Dorner to be tried to determine guilt or innocence. That is the system that I live under. Determinative guilt by mob is not something that interests me. Cheney snapped at birth. Dorner snapped by continued duress at the hands of the master of duress. I can give compassion and understanding to that, particularly as I personally know about the corruption of LAPD and their leader in corruption Randal Quan. Dorner is either dead now or will be shorty. The pound of flesh enjoyed by some will be no where near the resultant cleansing effects on the LAPD produced by Dorner's martrydom. Meanwhile, I'll continue to support Dorner if that support results in the dismantling of the LA Pig Department. Thank you for your time.

of the master of duress" earning your compassion, but you don't know that he killed anyone, thus avoiding any condemnation on your part. Very curious how you take as definitive evidence that makes you sympathize with him but feel entitled to ignore any evidence that would require a decent human being to condemn his actions.

I'll continue to support Dorner if that support results in the dismantling of the LA Pig Department.

So people like you aren't allowed to run things: "snapped at birth?" "Continued duress?"

So glad adults are in charge.

What, did you think the use of predator drones on American citizens was going to BEGIN with some schmuck with an unauthorized opinion on the benefits of totalitarian capitalism?

First they come for the murderers

I was trying to illustrate the whole boiling frog principle of the thing. Of course they're going to start with someone like a domestic terrorist, whose constitutional rights no-one much cares about. Gradually, they start using drones to investigate less severe crimes until eventually, you can't take a leak without a surveillance drone watching you. But I suspect DU won't start to get outraged until a drone is used in a pot bust, by which time they'll be too well-entrenched to do anything about them.

violate that fugitive's rights more than helicopters or police dogs?

I'm looking at the bigger picture here. Presumably, drones are set to replace police dogs and helicopters because they help to create a more efficient surveillance state. That ought to worry anyone with a concern for civil liberties, but I'm sure the sensible woodchucks will continue to assure us that everything will be OK as long as there is a Democrat in the White House.

Same argument about drones could have been made about helicopters, and airplanes, and hot air balloons as the super scary technology.

And a very mentally disturbed man who is armed. I can't believe people actually gets sympathy.

You know, that is kind of the point of having a trial. To determine his guilt or innocence. But I understand in this age of drone killings, with no trials, why you would get confused and forget about that little detail. Its called the 6th amendment to the constitution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

of a trial is not to push people into not coming to their own conclusions or discussing guilt or innocence.

Who do you blame instead--Obama? The Mossad?

I urge you to read that link to the 6th amendment to the US constitution, it might prove illuminating for you. I won't bother to reply to your ridiculous question though, except to ask why you didn't include asking me if I'm also a communist as well.

I mean, if it's wrong to conclude he's guilty on a message board, why do they have the right to expend public resources trying to catch him?

folks let his true feelings show and outed himself as a supporter of the guy who thinks of him as a victim, not a criminal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2351296

Vile.

I don't know what your problem is, but I suggest a chill pill.

and the "he's innnocent until proven guilty" and the "the man has a point" and "the dronez are a violation of his privacy rights" and the "we need to understand him" and "well, I don't necessarily condone what he did" and the "for all we know, this was staged by the government" all reflect a disturbing sympathy for a man who is known only because he has murdered several innocent people.

Not everyone who says those things is a closet Dorner fan or experiences a vicarious thrill in seeing him gun down police, but there are too many to whom that description justly applies.

i'm in favor of capital punishment for cases like this

i reserve my sympathy for victims and not their abusers/killers

Maybe he's just as bad a shot as they are?

Not sure I've seen such an open endorsement of murder before.

her husband. Monica Quan was the daughter of Randal Quan, the LAPD commander who officiated at Dorner's hearing over his charge that Training Officer Teresa Evans beat up a homeless man while handcuffed. This is what caused Dorner to snap. So you are wrong about the first two people he "murdered" had nothing to do with LAPD. I wish you mystery writers would get your facts straight.

Do they have anything to do with the LAPD? I don't consider relatives of people someone hates to be legitimate targets of that hate. Or murder.

And have you really not seen my other posts on this subject?
Dorner made his allegations about Teresa Evans 2 fucking weeks after they allegedly occurred. He made the allegations the day AFTER Evans asked for him to be reassigned.

What about this timing does NOT imply 'payback' to Evans instead of a legitimate search for the truth?

How do you know this, but not know he killed people after he snapped?

Now you're implying that Ms. Quan somehow had it coming or was a legitimate target because of who her father was.

Sick.

and basketball coaches.

Especially if he said, without any proof needed of course, those people he killed were in league with terrorists.

It is only murder when an individual does it.

When and organization (police/govt) do it, well it is just business.

Hadn't seen that one yet.

Thanks for adding to the catalog of people looking to downplay or excuse his actions and the rhetorical devices they use.

Of course, it's possible you don't think Obama's use of drones to target members of al Qaeda are the same as Dorner's murder of Monica Quan, in which case your post is disingenuous.

Not downplaying or excusing HIS actions - just pointing out that people who condemn him should do the same across the board.

Yemen was asked by us to cover up drone strikes that killed innocent people.

We have knowingly killed innocents if they were around people who were not, guilt and execution by association.

As long as someone condemns both they are being consistent.

well that they were a basketball coach, Yemeni law enforcement officer, or other civilian with no known ties to an organization engaged in armed attacks against the US, I'd call for his impeachment and extradition to the Hague.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

even when only one cop was around and a bunch of civilians were, that would be ok?

Under international law, police officers are considered civilians. Ergo, the IDF isn't allowed to treat Palestinian police as armed combatants when it decides who to bomb.

Unless you're one of those that think that bin Laden had the same legal status as a Riverside police officer, the comparison is nonsense.

by the government, Police corruption and malfeasance, AND Dorner. That should be a no brainer, hon.

Just about the ones who get all upset over people having a sympathy to a cause someone has even if they do not like their methods.

Many can be sympathetic to Dorner's plight that led him down this path while condemning his actions.

But then, I have also learned here that Dorner did not do this or have any real reason, guns did it - so his manifesto, etc, things leading up to the shootings are really non-issues, just like with Adam Lanza (a person so few talked about directly because he didn't leave behind any real writings, so it was 'blame the guns').

Maybe, possibly, some folks will start looking at the real causes behind violence and not what someone uses - and then we can start to address the real issues.

victimized by a corrupt system" but then turn around and say "innocent until proven guilty" as if that's relevant outside a court of law.

They KNOW he's a victim and is fighting corruption, but that whole shooting spree thing is beyond their powers of knowledge, even given his written admission to it.

you are jumping to conclusions. Not that we all aren't, but there really is no substantive evidence about whether his claims are true.

who deliberately targeted the relatives of those who bore a grudge againstin order to cause as much pain as possible. That's a sadist. That's cruel. That'snot acting out over some "plight." He's no better than a wife-beater who abuses his family because of his employment frustrations; only Dorner is a murderer who attacked other people's families.

Firing Dorner was part of the house-cleaning his apologists pretend they demand.

DU between those who believe in our judicial system deciding guilt or innocence of a person and those who do not? I do. And this case is not the first time.

by your posts in this thread, including one hidden by a 6-0 vote.

Re-read these entries in the dictionary and get back to me

Otherwise, sit down and stop talking about things you don't know anything about


Thank you

We'll probably never know for sure (about Dorner's guilt).

Dorner will be dead without a trial.

His truck and everything in it was burned to a cinder.

The department collecting evidence and hunting him down is the same one that burned him for being a whistle-blower.

I am in a different movie than you. In my movie the alleged villian Dorner redeems himself by

ridding the countryside of the real villain, the LA Pig Department. I recognize the concept of "a greater good". To you that concept is simply a theatric device. But, then, I have been in a few movies. You probably have not.

Determinative guilt by mob is not something that interests me. Cheney snapped at birth. Dorner snapped by continued duress at the hands of the master of duress. I can give compassion and understanding to that, particularly as I personally know about the corruption of LAPD and their leader in corruption Randal Quan. Dorner is either dead now or will be shorty. The pound of flesh enjoyed by some will be no where near the resultant cleansing effects on the LAPD produced by Dorner's martrydom. Meanwhile, I'll continue to support Dorner if that support results in the dismantling of the LA Pig Department. Thank you for your time.

The guy isn't normal so a correct analysis requires an understanding of how personality disorders can distort his perceptions. Adding paranoia and delusional thinking to the possible mix may be necessary.

"Understand" connotes seeing the LOGIC of something. Moreover, it also connotes oftentimes an empathy.

on the psychology of a killer, all based on media reports.

"Speaking truth to power" or some such similar bullshit, and in their minds that justifies any act.