The brutality against the kids is so shameful.
BHN

The building had been vacant for years and a bunch of protesters wanted to stay there.

So the government's response was to brutaly attack, abuse and arrest them.

Oakland mayor should be ashamed! This is so not necessary. This deliberate over-reaction by the OPD!

Like finding win/win solutions to build a better world,
like free speech, and freedom of ideas & thought,
like freedoms of association and assembly,


I have no words, but I do have at least 4 children,
who are all grown up now, and are even more
screwed-by-the-1% than I am.

What the fuck to they have to look forward to?
I'm grief stricken and ashamed,
of what a mess I'm leaving for them.

What kind of orders are the police getting?

Are we still a free people?

It's so horrifying to think this is happening in our country.
BHN

I feel so helpless to help- it's a six hour drive, but I am seriously considering it.
Where the hell is the Mayor?
How can this be justified by any government officials?
BHN

by getting them the hell out of there.

Do you suggest they are kids? 10? 15? 20?

See, what is happening is thousands are gathering in the streets to PEACEFULLY protest; did I mention this is also legal? Then the cops swoop in like anti Batmans who begin to rough up the crowd. Soon after this ANYONE thought to be, by the cops, protesting are not allowed to leave the scene and are subject to bodily harm.

So you are saying that children should not be a part of history? I do not mean the violence part because the original intent is peaceful and legal.

I can't resist the famous line 'Move along, move along; there's nothing to see here. But if children are not allowed to participate in a Constitutional right, protesting, then what will they grow up to be, Republicans?

Children growing up to be conservatives.

Don't talk sense. Those "hero" protestors don't want to hear that...

any responible american knows not to allow children within 1/2 mile of any uniform police.

It seems to be pretty much universally applicable to the poor, whether black, brown, white, green, purple, or whatever.

Just remember that the police protect property, not people, and you can generally figure out the right way to relate to them. As a person, you will be protected to the degree that you are someone's valuable property, whether an influential family or prominent corporation.

Don't ever resist or speak up.

as you're willing to suffer to be.

We haven't been a truly free people for most of our lives (as defined by static reality) ... after growing up in SF and living through the sixties actively, I am still filled with a young persons passion, but feel certain now that opposing the system, or for that matter, attempting to work within the system will only bring more of the same results or responses ... There is a wide range of options imo between apathetically or ignorantly doing nothing, living as victums, and doing repeteadly that which is garunteed to bring on a violent result ...

Fremont, Pleastanton, San Leandro, etc...

According to eyewitnesses.

I am absolutely horrified by what is happening in Oakland.
BHN

From SFGATE.com:

Oakland -- Oakland police on Saturday fired tear gas and flash grenades at hundreds of Occupy supporters who tried to seize the long-closed Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center as their movement's new home. More than 100 people were arrested.

Skirmishes between police in riot gear and demonstrators throwing paint cans and bottles erupted after a peaceful march that brought more than a thousand of the young movement's supporters to downtown Oakland. The situation remained fluid well after dark, with police and demonstrators facing off on the downtown's otherwise empty streets.

By early evening, arrests were continuing and three officers had suffered minor injuries. One woman was shot in the back at point-blank range with a beanbag gun and was hurried away by fellow demonstrators, her condition unknown. Oakland police called for reinforcements from nearby law enforcement agencies, with San Francisco's police department sending an undisclosed number of officers.

The violence brought a chaotic end to an afternoon that had started on an upbeat, even festive mood among supporters of Occupy, the nationwide movement that has refocused public attention on economic inequality.

Organizers of Occupy Oakland had announced last week that they planned to seize an empty building as their new base and community center, calling the public use of vacant buildings a new direction for the movement. After a brief lunchtime rally Saturday at Frank Ogawa Plaza, more than 1.000 Occupy supporters, accompanied by a small marching band, poured down Broadway, filling the street with banners.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/29/MNSI1N00ER.DTL

as it is, their police forces are being used much like the reserves are in Afghanistan.

most are just realizing it.

These ignorant goomba's will never amount to anything meaningful. They understand taking orders and obeying their master.

the first time I heard the word, I was kind of shocked and curious ... "really?
the fucking cops have an actual UNION?" ...

The president of our Portland OR cop "union" has been one of the most nasty
and strident voices against Occupy Portland.

I say disband ALL cop unions until at least 80% of ALL other workers are unionized,
then let the cops have their "union" back.

When one holds the power of the state, they need no more power (including union representation).

But, seriously, what kind of parent would put her child in such a volatile situation. If you need to outfit your child in a gas mask, it's time to leave. You can debate all you want, but bottom line is, get your child away from danger.

Could be that the mom or guardian with the kid has no choice but to
be in the area- taking the kid to school or a class and took the mask along as
a precaution against police brutality.

I mean we don't really know the back story.
BHN

But, be real here. What average parent has gas masks lying around? Also, it's Saturday, so if all of this is going on today, they aren't headed to school. And if this was going on outside of my house, I would simply tell my child that we have to stay in for now. Last time I looked, cops weren't randomly beating children walking down the street.

because she knows the reputation of the police in her town over decades of abuse of civilians?

What democracy would not have dealt with the brutality of the Oakland PD way, way before they nearly killed two Iraq War veterans?

If I lived in Oakland I would be afraid to take my kids anywhere, or in NYC where mothers have to warn their kids that even though they are just walking to school, they will most likely be harassed by the NYPD and that if it happens to do nothing that might give the cops a reason to become violent?

What kind of country has turned a blind eye to the systemic violence of the police for this long?

And in what democracy is it necessary to send out heavily armed robo cops from various areas of the country against unarmed citizens exercising their Constitutional rights?

I guess that mother did not want to risk her child becoming a victim of a PD that has earned a reputation around the world for its brutality towards unarmed civilians.

that has come its time. The Feds have to listen to WE THE PEOPLE, and stop listening to them, the corporations, because when it's over, their damn money will get them NOTHING!

Clearly, the 1% and the police are going nuts over there. They could have negotiated the use of the space just as they do with any NGO or corporation; but they refused to deal.

The rock throwing and threats made by a professor out there did nothing to further the cause of OWS, also reported in other threads here.

The Feds and no one else can take away an idea. I think you misread my post. Peace Out.

It is a peaceful demonstration that was
NEVER intended to become violent.

IMO, if more parents did this, there wouldn't be a need for protests. Watching demonstrations on TV while judging those doing it, is the very reason we are in this shape as a nation. 'Live free or die' is not just for T-shirts or bumper stickers.

situation if the cops weren't being such assholes.

While I doubt I would take a child to a protest it really should be safe in the U.S. to do so. Just like women should be able to walk down a street at night without having to fear being raped.

Because OWS Oakland was trying to take a building for its own use.

That doesn't justify the police over-reaction but anyone who understands anything about combative situations between two large groups would have understood that this will end as it always does -with injuries, arrests and both groups blaming the other.

in this country, where parents were proud to include their children in the marching, that have resulted in violent police-action taken against them.

There is nothing to debate.

But if the objective of the day is to take over private property, chances are it's NOT a safe situation and not appropriate to include children. And, as I stated above, the minute you have to outfit your child with a gas mask, you are knowingly putting your child in harm's way.

There is nothing to debate. The minute a situation turns volatile, you get your child out of there. You do not use them as props.

I'm not a big fan of "private" property. Also I'm sure a BIG part of that closed building that they were trying to occupy was built with public funds. And even if it wasn't, I'm sure there were public funds involved in tax breaks for the building's "owners". That's the way local government works nowdays.

Better yet, I'll be over soon to take it.

It's fictional, after all.

All mine is personal. Check out the difference.

If I try to take something that belongs to you, implicit in my prosecution would be the equivalence of personal and private property.

I think you are drawing a distinction based on some stupid Marxian economic model that has been and will be implemented exactly nowhere.

on some stupid propagandized capitalist brainwashing that has resulted in the WORST economic inequality and injustice seen since feudalism.

Are you really saying parents should never allow brave children to stand up for what's right? Witnessing brave black children integrate in the 60s shows us the way. Or how about Kent State? Should no one's children have protested the Vietnam War?

You don't know when any situation is going to become "unsafe" vs. "safe". I think it's impossible to definitively ever say it.

You also don't even know the first thing about why a parent and child may be in that zone. Last weekend I had to take my daughter to a mandatory interview for a new school. It was only happening last Saturday. We had to be in the city that day. What if that school was near an Occupy site? Should we never have gone and missed a new opportunity because Occupy Chicago may have gotten violent that day?

History is full of children who have had parents who willingly allowed them to go into harm's way: from boy drummers in the Civil War to underage soldiers in WWI and WWII (my British grandfather enlisted in WWI at 15 years old) to the many children of the Civil Rights era whose parents watched them walk out their front door alone to school during integration.

Occupy Oakland didn't have to be a war zone - only one side made it entirely unsafe for children....

and, as has been shown by the many unprovoked attacks against totally non-violent actions during the past six months, the safety of our children in that future depends on people taking a definitive stand against the injustice and inequality that such blatant brutality lurks behind.

Minorities and the poor and disenfranchised parents of this nation put their children in harm's way every single time they open a door to allow their kids to go outside to play or take a walk to the store, unaccompanied, because of repressive, out-of-control police departments.
The common everyday streets are volatile for them, due to the oppressive system of the 1% that is propped up by its armed enforcers.

Educating a child to the truth, making sure that they become aware of where the actual danger lies, is hardly inappropriate, as our country rushes headlong into overwhelming poverty for the majority ... such truth has been the reality for minorities for generations.




On Jan. 12, 1912, some 25,000 workers at the mills of the American Woolen Company in Lawrence walked off the job when the company cut their pay—already a mere $8 a week for the men, and less for the women and children—after the state legislature passed a law shortening the length of their workweek from 56 hours to 54 hours. Workers stayed off the job for months, enduring beatings from police and the Massachusetts militia, who spared not even women and children.

Some see in the conditions that led to the Bread and Roses strike parallels to today’s growing income disparity between the wealthy and the rest of us, as well as the exploitation of America’s workers by financial interests. Robert Forrant, a history professor at the University of Massachusetts, calls it “the first Occupy movement.”

http://www.workdayminnesota.org/index.php?news_6_5105

In my student days (60's) I was a part time dispatcher and reservist for the Berkeley PD and even then the Oakland cops were known for being a haven for psychos, sadists and rednecks. There may have even been some discussion by neighboring cities about eliminating mutual aid agreements with Oakland due to fear of civil suits arising from their activities.

"plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"

On Twitter I read people are filming the injured, like one EMT who got beaten with a baton and seems to have broken ribs, another woman who was beaten until she lost control of her bladder and passed blood, very serious stuff and it's not over.

Your report is extremely disturbing.
Is this our "Kent State" moment?
Are they going to kill some young people?
Where is our President?
I want intervention President Obama, before there is serious tragedy.
BHN

to turn into the Feds re the OPD.

Some one needs to held accountable for this violence.
BHN

There's a law against him commenting on police violence in this country or something.

If he criticized, you would scream in outrage about how he's not doing anything.
If he tried to do something, you would piss yourself in rage over how it's "not enough."
If he took serious action, you would be in a fury over him "overstepping his bounds."

What is it, exactly, you want him to do? Lay it out.

upon the DoJ to investigate immediately. It will be too late when parents & grandparents start marching to stop the violence against their children, which will happen if these actions keep up. Not not that I think they would vote 'publican but they will demand justice for the actions of his police dept., which they pay taxes for.

You know, that is what Occupy should do - have their grannies and great-grannies lead the march to the abandoned convention center, with their canes, walkers and wheelchairs, and open it. Gray Panthers would surely love to help out. "but, but, but, it's for children" no longer works, maybe it's for the Keep Granny off of Cat Food will work.

first amendment rights from attempts to violate them by any California law enforcement agency deployed on the streets of Oakland. See 1950s and 60s civil rights demonstrations for more.

n/t

Sorry, that is unbelievable!
Are you serious?!
BHN

Thats a lovely claim.

a) He was once mayor of Oakland and still maintains a home there.

b) He has the power to call out the National Guard to (one hopes) rein in the out-of-control OPD.

almost all cop departments are a haven for psychos, sadists, rednecks and mindless bots.

His station was nick-naked "The Knife and Gun Club" among EM people.

then the protest makes the police look good. If it gets worse, it shows the protestors "getting desperate as they often do in the late hours of the night".

So no matter what, the media has them framed as being "bad, bad, bad!" I say!

Occupy!!!

all night.

I read on Twitter, that this is becoming Occup City Hall and Occupy The Jail...

Sounds like the are trying to swamp the system...

our hearts are with you!!!!

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone

And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgment of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

It is sad that there is even one snapshot of America2012 that looks like this

Total chaos...

what ever happened to force as a last, and only if absolutely necessary resort?

It's seems like violence and chaos are choice #1 in Oakland. I don't get it.

It is a tactic to make the protesters look bad. The police know that the public perception of them is that they are there to protect and serve. So, if there is violence then the perception is that the protesters instigated it. Yet, I have never seen unprovoked violence against a police officer yet I have seen more than one instance of unprovoked police brutality.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

I had a problem with my cell phone which I just now took care of a few minutes ago. I haven't had any contact with my daughter for the past few days so I have no way of knowing if she was one of the people arrested. The thing is, she very easily could have been arrested and I just don't know.

She lives in Berkeley and has been active in the Occupy movement from the beginning in several cities. She was right on the front lines when they closed down the port--both times, and wrote a couple of blog posts about it. I just don't know if she was planning to go to this demonstration or not.

Praying for them all to be safe.

It's after 3:00 a.m. and I don't want to wake her up if she's sleeping. I'll post again as soon as I hear from her. Last time she posted on her Facebook page was Friday night.

Recently filed a "missing person" report on my kid-
Pissed her off in a major way, but hey- if they promise to "check in"
and don't for three days, what are your options?
BHN

According to her friend, my daughter was involved with another event at the time and didn't go to the demonstration. She still hasn't answer my text message or my phone call, but I was very relieved to hear that.

I'd like her take on what went down in Oakland yesterday from someone who was there. I don't believe a word I hear from the MSM any more.

The protesters walked to the vacant convention center, where some started tearing down perimeter fencing and "destroying construction equipment" shortly before 3 p.m., police said.

Police said they issued a dispersal order and used smoke and tear gas after some protesters pelted them with bottles, rocks, burning flares and other objects.

Quan said that at one point, many protesters forced their way into City Hall, where they burned flags, broke an electrical box and damaged several art structures, including a recycled art exhibit created by children.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/300-arrested-daylong-occupy-oakland-protests-15466112

I don't believe a word. Of the M$M when it comes to Occupy. They lied their asses off in NYC till the videos of the unprovoked brutality started popping up on Youtube. The M$M is no longer valid. The people marched to take back their Civic Auditorium and establish it as the real city hall, as the Mayors city hall no longer represents the 99%. This is just the beginning. The Oakland police, in a matter of weeks, are going to be under Federal control due to corruption and the failure to enact reforms, per Huffington Post. This kind of lawless savagery coming from a corrupt force does not suprise me. My heart goes out to Occupy Oakland, and Quan needs to resign immediately.

I dont believe in complex coordinated conspiracies that involve massive numbers of individuals.

It could be there were just a few instigators that caused the damage that led to the police action. That is usually the case in situations like this. Anyway, regardless it is a bad situation and Quan should get some of the blame. They clearly did not handle the situation properly.

we have very little media left in this country. It looks more like the soviet McPravda. What a sad state for this country. Remember the thousands who marched against invading Iraq? The corporate media attempted to downplay those protests. It's too bad that those corporations that own the media now, have their personal business agenda, like making money off of war and maintaining the corrupt status quo. They've turned into the clowns, entertaining and bamboozling the crowd with usually enquirer type reporting. Oh, and making ads, promoting products like it's news.

...and agree. However - in the flag burning pic I saw, the two doing the burning were masked, in a non-gas situation. This pretty much identifies them as asshole anarchists/provacatuers OO has had trouble with before. 20 or 30 of these clowns will attach themselves to a crown of thousands, act destructively and hijack the message. Occupy Oakland actually physically intervene to stop them from destroying a food store last fall.

And especially when they are labeled as "Occupiers".

Idiots (Black Bloc-heads and media, both).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc

Even though they led the whole thing.

Agent provocateurs, etc, etc. OWS doesn't represent any one group. If the bloc is used by OWSers it should be accepted, not denigrated.

"If the bloc is used by OWSers"? That implies that the bloc-heads were operating at the behest of Occupy. I think you'll find very few, if any who condone the actions of Blac Bloc or other anarchists.

If anyone was being used in this situation, it was Occupy.

Denouncing the bloc as a whole will backfire, you can denounce their tactics, but on the whole they weren't as violent as portrayed. Look at the front of the march, the people who embolden the rest, they're in black clothing, they have their faces covered, and they march forward, bravely. That's the bloc. If the allegations of bottles being thrown it's one thing to denounce that, it's another thing entirely to denounce public anonymity (the core of the bloc), which ironically was done last night on the live stream by, get this, anonymous individuals!

If anything, I think it's well advised in today's environment. But masks are often being used simply as an excuse to escalate peaceful protests to acts of vandalism or violence, tactics which fly directly in the face of OWS. I think you're trying to characterize OWS as somehow libertine when you suggest that they must accept the actions of any supposed followers regardless of consequences. If you look at the issues that matter - justice for Wall Street criminals; getting big money out of elections; holding corporations accountable, these concerns ask for fairness and a return to the rule of law in the US. That message kind of gets blown out of the water with actions like this.

n/t

interesting problem - perhaps they need to be more active in denouncing them. Or help the police identify and arrest them.

If it becomes political it dies. We'll see what happens. As soon as they denounce bloc tactics they will lose a lot of support.

if the success of OWS requires prying complacent Americans off their couches and into the streets then you need to consider the public image of OWS. Not the underlying issues but the public image - if people dressed in black and wearing bandanas becomes the public perception of OWS then you have a huge problem. An image of whole families marching hand in hand is what you want - but what responsible parent would want their kids involved in a confrontational demonstration that could turn violent in a heartbeat?

Nor can things like public flag burning, a pure and unadulterated act of free speech.

OWS will not make it into the news if it keeps standing around a public park protesting. It has to take to the streets as Occupy Oakland has done every weekend.

edit: by "the bloc will have to adapt" I mean, if the allegations of thrown bottles are true, they need to oust those who threw the bottles, etc. It's possible that was done with agents, but being anonymous doesn't preclude agents from getting in your circles, in fact, the OakFoSho feed suggested there were several agents in with the people, in grunge looking clothes, and not covered, and who just walked out of the arrests area without any sort of resistance whatsoever. The bloc itself is not any more susceptible to agent provocateurs than regular protests are. That's just playing the blame game, blaming bloc tactics because they're the most useful tactics that can stop the police from their actions.

the question I would have is whether such decisions are made in a rational manner. I suspect not.

...isn't rational.

I think it's a perfectly rational, and reasonable, act, though, when you wish redress of grievances.

as opposed to a very localized movement limited to more liberal areas of the country that may be more accepting to such tactics? If OWS is serious about their goals, they have to ask how all this will play out in the less blue parts of the country.

A moderator then came and squashed any opinion disagreeing with the streamer.

It was enlightening to say the least.

They want to observe the spectacle.

But they don't want to participate.

bombs and shit at police and that is why they had to "respond"

Our news is nothing but a bunch of treasonous assholes who have probably been the main reason the fascist have been able to control the people. The rest of the world now makes fun of our "Baghdad Bob" reporting. We have become a joke to the world.

throwing stuff at police. Are you saying this did not occur?

If this is on mainstream media, then yes, I would say it was most likely a staged provacatuer act so that they could show the sheeple how terrible we were to them, so they had to attempt to kill us.

I guess I need to see the people who threw shit and was this after being gassed, rubber bulleted, smoke bombed and clubbed, or was this before.

If you have 3 or 4 people doing it then it is provacatuers. They have been found before to show up out of nowhere, not from the known group, cause trouble, disapear. You tell me who they are.

But, I would like to see the film and hear from those there.

got me

The police force is working for the 1%.

To their bank accounts and their control of the country.

Certainly not much of a physical threat to anyone at this time.

No pretense anymore of "tolerating dissent". They're just rounding people up for mass arrest.
The capitalist police state has dropped its mask and now the world can see it for what it is.

We're in for much, much worse, I'm afraid.