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SHRED

(28,136 posts)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:38 PM Feb 2013

My car usage requires I insure it in case of an accident...

...or any damage done by the user neglectful or not. Guns carry no such requirement. Why not?

And why hasn't the President proposed this idea?

Wouldn't a requirement to purchase insurance for gun use fall under the "well regulated" verbiage in the 2nd Amendment?

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My car usage requires I insure it in case of an accident... (Original Post) SHRED Feb 2013 OP
Sure why not, insurance runs the country anyway. lonestarnot Feb 2013 #1
I think, perhaps, the Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #2
As horrifying as... SHRED Feb 2013 #3
Shred, Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #10
Legal gun owners aren't always responsible gun owners. pnwmom Feb 2013 #19
I am nothing if not pragmatic.... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #27
Having a surcharge or tax on every gun or ammo purchase is a good idea. pnwmom Feb 2013 #36
It would be a tax... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #37
There already is a federal tax on guns and ammo. former9thward Feb 2013 #41
Then increase it, or make a separate surcharge... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #43
No, it is high enough. former9thward Feb 2013 #48
How much is it? And would you prefer to have to carry liability insurance on your guns? Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #49
It's 11%. former9thward Feb 2013 #50
I was just asking your preference... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #51
In my state the insurance company tells the state if you drop them dsc Feb 2013 #38
Nice... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #42
"You are thinking in terms of responsible gun owners" That, my friend, is an oxymoron... madinmaryland Feb 2013 #58
LOL Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #59
What insurance compensates for crimes? hack89 Feb 2013 #17
Guns in the home are more likely to be involved in accidents than in crimes. n/t pnwmom Feb 2013 #21
And such accidents can be covered by homers or rental insurance hack89 Feb 2013 #23
Only with riders. And there is one way to enforce the law: pnwmom Feb 2013 #28
To what end? hack89 Feb 2013 #40
Mine doesnt. bunnies Feb 2013 #4
It is dirt cheap - a fraction of what I pay for car insurance hack89 Feb 2013 #18
Yeah.... good point. bunnies Feb 2013 #25
Gun accidents are rare relative to the number of INSURED gun owners -- pnwmom Feb 2013 #30
But insurance will not change that hack89 Feb 2013 #39
the point being ... rickford66 Feb 2013 #53
And the NRA will go into the insurance business and make a fortune. hack89 Feb 2013 #54
It might be possible for public carrying, but not for private property use aikoaiko Feb 2013 #5
You insure your home...that's private property, isn't it? nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #7
It's not required of home ownership by the government, though. aikoaiko Feb 2013 #8
Required by the government or not, try getting a mortgage without it. nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #11
only if you finance the gun Duckhunter935 Feb 2013 #12
If you own your car outright, you still have to have car insurance. nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #13
Not on private property or transporting it over public ways aikoaiko Feb 2013 #14
Yeah....I read them. nt. OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #15
The analogy to car insurance doesn't really work aikoaiko Feb 2013 #20
You were talking about a house not car Duckhunter935 Feb 2013 #31
That is so that I can repair or replace my house if necessary. hack89 Feb 2013 #22
Homeowners insurance also protects you in case someone is injured on your property.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #24
But I am not required by law to have such insurance hack89 Feb 2013 #26
I am not required to carry insurance on my house or autos .... oldhippie Feb 2013 #45
The insurance premiums would be unaffordable. nt OldEurope Feb 2013 #6
Why? there are enough gun owners to reduce the premiums to an affordable amount.... OldDem2012 Feb 2013 #9
How about first amendment insurance- that speech could cause a riot, don'cha know. X_Digger Feb 2013 #16
Wouldn't that already be covered under an umbrella policy then? dkf Feb 2013 #29
I don't have to have a drivers license, tag *or* insurance to drive on my own property.... Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #32
you have to have a licence to legally buy a car dsc Feb 2013 #44
Well we don't have to in Tennessee.. don't even have to show proof of insurance Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #52
You can't insure a criminal act. galileoreloaded Feb 2013 #33
"Why hasn't the President proposed this idea?" rdharma Feb 2013 #34
What?!?!? - and take my gun/ammo-purchasing money away? TheCowsCameHome Feb 2013 #35
I kinda like the idea of gun insurance ..... oldhippie Feb 2013 #46
The only insurance worth fighting for rrneck Feb 2013 #47
ever been hit by an uninsured driver? ileus Feb 2013 #55
Great idea quaker bill Feb 2013 #56
I've been saying this for a while Politicalboi Feb 2013 #57

Sekhmets Daughter

(7,515 posts)
10. Shred,
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:56 PM
Feb 2013

Does your state make you carry coverage for "uninsured" motorists? Do you think that's because everyone carries automobile insurance? Do you have any idea how easy it is to purchase that insurance, with a monthly premium, and then lapse it after a month or two? You are thinking in terms of responsible gun owners...a group highly unlikely to commit murder with their weapons. Criminals or mentally challenged people won't keep that insurance any longer than it takes to get the gun. IMHO

I buried a daughter 3 years ago, there is no such thing as 'compensation' for that type of loss.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
19. Legal gun owners aren't always responsible gun owners.
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:35 PM
Feb 2013

Sometimes their guns get into the wrong hands, and sometimes there are unfortunate accidents. Insurance would be a good idea for these situations.

And the requirement to have insurance should have some teeth -- significant financial penalties an/or jail time.

Sekhmets Daughter

(7,515 posts)
27. I am nothing if not pragmatic....
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:54 PM
Feb 2013

I think requiring all gun owners to purchase insurance will result in enough of a backlash to make truly effective measurements impossible to pass. That's just my opinion, but the penalties for not having insurance would be minimal or deemed unconstitutional (remember, gun ownership is considered a right, whereas owning an automobile is still a privilege)...unless a crime had been committed with the gun...so what's the point? The gun was used in a shooting, the owner did not have insurance, the victim is still dead. The ticket for not having auto insurance is considerably less than 6 months of premium and people only go to jail if they are convicted of vehicular homicide. What I think may be a better approach is requiring a surcharge on every gun and box of ammunition purchased...the funds collected to go into a pool to help defray the costs incurred by the families of victims.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
36. Having a surcharge or tax on every gun or ammo purchase is a good idea.
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:09 PM
Feb 2013

I wonder if that would pass constitutional muster, given the current makeup of the court?

Sekhmets Daughter

(7,515 posts)
51. I was just asking your preference...
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:42 PM
Feb 2013

I don't think an insurance scheme has any chance either. I also don't think it would be effective. 11% on the sale price? That would be steep.

dsc

(52,162 posts)
38. In my state the insurance company tells the state if you drop them
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:32 PM
Feb 2013

and you then have to prove you have insurance or your license is revoked and you pay a fine.

madinmaryland

(64,933 posts)
58. "You are thinking in terms of responsible gun owners" That, my friend, is an oxymoron...
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:00 PM
Feb 2013

I always find that "responsible" gun owners are "responsible" until they aren't.

Sekhmets Daughter

(7,515 posts)
59. LOL
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 11:26 AM
Feb 2013

Oh, I think there are many who are responsible, but way too many who aren't. I also think the 'special interest' crowd have done a great job of polarizing this issue. I refuse to allow them to victimize me in that manner.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
17. What insurance compensates for crimes?
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:32 PM
Feb 2013

insurance companies pay for accidents - not for premeditated crimes.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
23. And such accidents can be covered by homers or rental insurance
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:39 PM
Feb 2013

it is dirt cheap - much cheaper then insuring a car.

The problem, of course, is that there is no way to enforce such a law. Unlike a car on a public street, the vast majority of guns kept in the home are completely invisible to the government.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
28. Only with riders. And there is one way to enforce the law:
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:56 PM
Feb 2013

severe penalties if a gun does become involved in an accident and no insurance was in place.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
18. It is dirt cheap - a fraction of what I pay for car insurance
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:34 PM
Feb 2013

I have it as part of my home insurance.

However, it would not pay if I used that gun to commit crime. It would also not pay if someone stole my gun and used it to commit a crime.

That is why it is so cheap - actual gun accidents are very rare relative to the actual number of gun owners.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
25. Yeah.... good point.
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:47 PM
Feb 2013

I spose it wouldnt really be popular with those who acquire their weapons illegally. I can't imagine some shady back-alley arms dealer requesting proof of insurance.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
30. Gun accidents are rare relative to the number of INSURED gun owners --
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:01 PM
Feb 2013

a group that is likely to be more responsible than average gun owners.

But gun accidents in the home are more common than other kinds of shootings in the home.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
39. But insurance will not change that
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:39 PM
Feb 2013

forcing irresponsible gun owners to buy insurance will not make them responsible.

I just don't see what the point is.

rickford66

(5,524 posts)
53. the point being ...
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:52 PM
Feb 2013

the insurance industries will impose their own regulations, probably very restrictive to minimize carelessness, thus gun control will be decided by the private sector. Case closed.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
54. And the NRA will go into the insurance business and make a fortune.
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:01 PM
Feb 2013

you cannot use private industry to circumvent a civil right. Besides - just how will anyone know who has a gun?

aikoaiko

(34,172 posts)
5. It might be possible for public carrying, but not for private property use
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:49 PM
Feb 2013

You don't have to have car insurance to use a vehicle on private property or transport on a flat bed.

It really wouldn't fall under the "Well-regulated" verbiage because that phrase modifies the militia and not the people who keep and bear arms.

aikoaiko

(34,172 posts)
20. The analogy to car insurance doesn't really work
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:35 PM
Feb 2013

Like I said, it isn't required of cars or vehicles that are used on private property.

And it would have no impact on criminals who acquire guns illegally.

But I do agree that a case could be made for for insurance when carrying in public ways.
 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
31. You were talking about a house not car
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:06 PM
Feb 2013

In most states you do not need insurance for either if on your property.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
22. That is so that I can repair or replace my house if necessary.
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:36 PM
Feb 2013

it makes sense for property that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not so much sense for a gun that costs a thousand dollars.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
24. Homeowners insurance also protects you in case someone is injured on your property....
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:43 PM
Feb 2013

....and/or brings suit against you. It's under the "personal Liability" clause.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
26. But I am not required by law to have such insurance
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:49 PM
Feb 2013

most people have it due to bank mortgage requirements.

Specific insurance for guns is a solution looking for a problem. Besides being completely unenforceable.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
9. Why? there are enough gun owners to reduce the premiums to an affordable amount....
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:55 PM
Feb 2013

...of course, if you own more than one gun you could be paying quite a bit.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
16. How about first amendment insurance- that speech could cause a riot, don'cha know.
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:31 PM
Feb 2013

Want to start a blog? Why not require libel / defamation insurance?

No, we don't require people to have insurance before exercising rights.

Driving a car on public roads is a privilege, not a right.

Ghost in the Machine

(14,912 posts)
32. I don't have to have a drivers license, tag *or* insurance to drive on my own property....
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:09 PM
Feb 2013

I have 15 acres, mostly wooded, and my guns never leave my property, either. From the 3 spots I hunt, and the two target ranges I use, I can GUARANTEE that a bullet NEVER LEAVES *my* property.

Why should I have to insure them? My homeowners insurance already covers anyone hurt on my property, and also covers my contents in case of theft. Once reported stolen, I am no longer responsible for anything that happens with that gun.

And why hasn't the President proposed this idea?


Probably because he realizes what a dumb idea it is and doesn't want to tie up congress with frivolous bullshit while he could be spending time on things that matter more... like poverty, education and the economy.

Wouldn't a requirement to purchase insurance for gun use fall under the "well regulated" verbiage in the 2nd Amendment?


No, it would fall under the "having to purchase a product from a private, for profit company", just like the "Healthcare Mandate". If memory serves correctly, there weren't too many people happy about that, were there?

Any more questions?

Peace,

Ghost

dsc

(52,162 posts)
44. you have to have a licence to legally buy a car
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:12 PM
Feb 2013

in many states. The license, except in NH, comes with the requirement to either buy insurance or prove financial responsibility.

Ghost in the Machine

(14,912 posts)
52. Well we don't have to in Tennessee.. don't even have to show proof of insurance
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:50 PM
Feb 2013

to get a tag, like you do in Georgia. Hell, Tenn didn't even have an insurance requirement until either '03 or '04... before then, you were only *required* to get insurance if you had been in an accident and didn't have insurance, or if you were convicted of DUI.

When I lived in Fla, they sold insurance right inside the tag offices... just the state required minimum liability insurance.. it was like $20 - $25 per month, and most people just let it expire after they got their tags. This was 25-30 years ago, though...

 

galileoreloaded

(2,571 posts)
33. You can't insure a criminal act.
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:11 PM
Feb 2013

And the concept of vicarious liability requires.....oh never mind.

Gun liability insurance is a non-starter. Full confiscation is easier.

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
34. "Why hasn't the President proposed this idea?"
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:49 PM
Feb 2013

Because he wants to concentrate on effective and practical measures.

 

oldhippie

(3,249 posts)
46. I kinda like the idea of gun insurance .....
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:32 PM
Feb 2013

I could probably afford to do it. Then I and the 1%ers can have our guns and we won't have to worry about low-lifes, gang-bangers, drug dealers and other riff-raff having guns, 'cuz they won't pay the insurance and thus won't ever be armed.

Do I really need the thingie?

quaker bill

(8,224 posts)
56. Great idea
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:14 PM
Feb 2013

with auto insurance the rates vary by driver and vehicle. Guns which are less often used in crime would carry lower rates. Every CCW permit should require insurance in case the person carrying shoots a person accidentally.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
57. I've been saying this for a while
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 08:19 PM
Feb 2013

It's a good thing to have, and it could be a deterrent to go out and just buy a gun. Fuck your "gun rights" People have a right to live without fear of being shot while going to the mall. We need to clobber these gun nuts (Mr. JCPenny's shopper) and make insurance about $300 a year for their precious guns, for EACH gun. And if shitheads in congress can't do it, make it a state by state thing. I would think Ca would love some more revenue coming from the gun nuts. I know I want the gun nuts to PAY MORE.

If anything, we ALL pay taxes for streets, and driving is a privilege not a right. We need to make owning a gun a privilege too. It kind of is already, if you're a felon, you don't get one legally. So it can be done. We need more hoops and money to get people who just on a whim will go out and buy a gun. You know like electing a Black President. I wonder how many gun buyers who bought their gun just for that reason don't even really know where it is in their house. Or if it's loaded.

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