there should be no tolerance for this kind of 'force' in a democracy.

We watched it all on live-feed and it was once again, thoroughly disgusting to see the agency paid for by the people, once again launch an all-out war against their own people.

And people wonder what they would do if they were ever ordered to shoot to kill American citizens. I think there is no doubt about the answer to that.

Btw, the description of events in the OP is exactly what we witnessed from all of the livestreams.

The cops lied to the media, and the media, especially MSNBC, as always, passed on the lies.

the news "journalists" or your lying eyes?

I watched it too and was horrified. We were going to go down there too except that I knew that I couldn't physically handle the marching. I hope shit like this doesn't scare too many away in the future.

It is interesting to compare this to what I heard on the ten o'clock local news last night. The news was almost completely slanted to the police point of view. It did allow one protestor to speak a sentence or two. This account does not attempt to whitewash either side.

Who told them it would be smart to try to take over a big vacant building? It's imbecilic. And then "marching towards the police with our own shields in front." It just doesn't get more stupid than that. Unless you count returning "one volley of firecrackers, small projectiles, and funny things like balloons."

These protesters aren't OWS at all. They are idiots who are discrediting the hard work of the movement.

What must have happened is the usual process where frustration causes the angrier, stupider members of a group to rise to leadership.

the same Global criminals?

There is nothing at all unusual for a movement which was born out of the income inequality and financial corruption that currently exists in this country, to take over vacant buildings.

Global Corporatists shut them down to take their 'business' elsewhere after contributing to the collapse of Argentina's economy.

This is the model that the Occupiers should follow now, imo. I am sure they will easily get donations to move forward on a project like this, providing shelter and even work for people currently the victims of the economic collapse.

Thank you for the link, I hope they succeed in gaining ownership or at least legal occupancy.

but this is still considered a very important hotel in terms of the tourism industry, even under new management.

it's not like they were taking over private property or anything.

"Whose building? OUR building!"

The public owns the building, and their representatives (in a democracy) get to decide who occupies it. I don't know whether they did it, but at a minimum, they should have asked the public to use the building and explained (in reasonable terms) what they wanted to use it for. Otherwise, it is just trespassing on the public's property. By your interpretation, a group of Tea Party Republicans could just go in and set up an "I Love W" association.

That's what the 1%ers seem to have forgotten. Pity some DUers have, too.

Now I'm trying to picture a group of Tea Party Republicans in Oakland. Without much success.

nm

of little to no value in its current condition.

But we have to volley smoke bombs, corral, beat and arrest protesters to protect a vacant and abandoned building? Really? What the protesters were going to do to a vacant, abandoned, worthless building had to be stopped at all cost? Really?

So how useful to the public was the police causing another riot over a worthless, vacant, abandoned building?

We saved a vacant, abandoned, worthless building from a sit-in.

Sometimes common sense should trump minor regulations and laws.

which as usual, is found in the middle - of the action, that is.

of who was responsible for it. The movement has lost its purpose in the eyes of many who originally supported it.

issues that are far more important to the American people than one small, insignificant even like this, continue to worsen, especially after the collapse of the European economy, than one small, insignificant event like this.

Of course maybe you would like the movement to go away, but that is not going to happen. Starving, jobless, homeless people will have to be fed, housed and find jobs available, college student loans will have to be reduced, healthcare made available to all Americans, the money taken out of politics, and those responsible for the Financial Meltdown held accountable, before we have the luxury of pining over a few individuals buring a flag.

The only people who will try to use this are the same people who were never going to be a part of this movement in the first place, and they are no loss.

Amazing that anyone would think a single incident like this would end a global, growing and more than necessary, justifiable movement.

to those who see something like that happen. Not smart.

This American society is on a tipping point.

The youth of our nation have no jobs. The youth of our nation can no longer afford college and further education. The youth of our nation have stunningly high unemployment numbers. The youth of our nation are returning from the wars with no job opportunities. The youth of our nation are being systematically prevented from voting and participating in our political process. Our politicians are ignoring the complaints of the youth of our nation. The youth of our nation have idle hands and minds and NO hope that the political system will help them.

The Koch Brothers, banksters and corporations have systematically closed all possible exists for the pent up drive, energy and hope of our youth. The youth of our nation have no choice. They will revolt. Every nation in history who has done this to their young adults has seen a revolution. It's going to get worse.

Along with most minorities and the poor.

as time goes on. No one is worried about polls, they are worried about people. Rightwingers of course have never supported this movement as they always assume that any movement that is intended to benefit ordinary people, must be a 'commie plot'. But no one cares much about what they think, if we waited for the far right to approve of doing anything to get this country on track to benefit its citizens, it would never happen. For some reason they blindly support those who are stealing their freedoms and livelihood.

and some polls now rank their popularity at less than the Tea Party.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-favor-fading.html

movement would have simply gone home and we would be still be living in the fifties.

This is a movement that will not go away, it will be here for years, as were all other social justice movements. You can either support it or not, if you don't care about the gross inequalities growing in America and around the globe today, then no need for you to join or support this movement. But enough people DO care to cause the rapid spread of a movement, still in its infancy, all over the country and the globe in just a couple of months.

No need for you to be 'concerned'. This is going to continue to grow until the issues are addressed, and as more and more people suffer as a result of the inequality becoming more apparent each day, the bigger the movement will grow.

or even the centrists to approve of doing ANYTHING to get this country on track to benefit it's citizens, it would never happen. Far reaching changes are NEVER spurred on by the timid with small ideas. In fact, they are usually opposed to doing anything active.

Too much work?

But OWS is about economic injustice and has NO political aspirations at all.

At least that's what we've been told.

but it is not apolitical.

starts benefiting the people of this country rather than the corporations. You misunderstood that it is 'not political'. It is not a partisan political movement. But it is about the politics of this country and how they have been taken over by Wall Street and the goal is to stop this before it is too late.

No response with information has yet to be made to the earlier FOIA requests by The Partnership for Civil Justice Fund (PCJF), which was joined by Michael Moore, re demands to federal and local law enforcement agencies seeking public disclosure of documents and information concerning their involvement in the coordinated crackdown on Occupy encampments across the nation.
http://www.justiceonline.org/commentary/occupy-crackdown-legal.html

As noted:

Maybe 10-20, possibly 30 or more. They infiltrated to the hilt and are being paid huge dollars to discredit the movement. Look at the folks standing next to you and be cautious and wary of those that are seemingly fitting in very well. Look under the covers and check the closet. Trust nobody, and if you see some folks with huge wads of cash - report them to OWS leaders. Heck the agents might even be leaders.


Seriously, this talk just fragments the movement.

Medic was wholloped in the kidneys. Eyewitness accounts, including live streamer,
Oakfosho, I believe, reported the medic's eventual collapse some hours after one of
many assaults against kettled, not corraled, protestors by the police.

Please watch the live stream's coverage of events recorded from yesterday and
through-out the night.

http://www.livestream.com/occupyoakland

this is from the blog of one of the protestors who was there. I did watch the stream yesterday and I do hope that medic will recover soon. I heard that she was peeing blood.

[img][/img]

If so it's a design by Blackwater.

It's a serious deathtrap for anyone inside it. The outside fuel tank would be very easy to puncture or drill - it may even have a drain cock on the bottom. For a bunch of wierd reasons*, I know how vulnerable this thing is to real firepower, never mind a lunatic with a bulldozer or big excavator.
To think that we, as taxpayers, buy this albatross instead of paying teachers or the like, is a crying fucking shame.



*Some is covered by nondisclosures, others I would not feel right about divulging....

Finding resources for the poor to build a community will always be reflected upon in a negative way.... Hopefully in time OWS will change that dialogue too...

I guess the truth discourages them.

Maybe they're delayed because they're on a conference call with corporate to get their talking points straight...

Before, they felt confident spewing the talking points from the lying corporate media, who in turn, spewed lies from the professional liars of the Oakland PD. Of course, now that we're hearing the stories from people on the ground who saw the events first hand, they can't use the corporate spin...

The fact is that most of the people there were peaceful, most of the people broke no laws, and that the conduct of the Oakland PD can only be described as a police riot.

But they're more than happy to tar the entire movement with the actions of a few, punish the many for just being around when a law might have been broken, and smugly flame everyone with the same bullshit that goes on FOX News afterwards.

Sorry for the delay!

My socialist slave drivers want me to make at least one post every 10 seconds.

... were they trying to do, get people killed?

... it's absolutely stupid. Stupid.

Throwing firecrackers at cops in riotgear is like inviting Death into your house. They are lucky the cops didn't start opening fire with real bullets.

I've been assured that Occupy is completely peaceful.


Throwing firecrackers at police is completely insane, unless it's an attempt to provoke the police into shooting so that they can point out how evil the police are, in which case it's not insane, but just stupid and wrong.

the movement can't be stopped but every time i read about how they're trying to stop it i feel a deep sadness. where will it end.

They are spending billions on it; just have no idea how to get rid of a real populist movement.

when the system is more just. the pendulum swings...

The system is self-correcting and we are all the major parts of that system.

That's a crime in which real people with real property were injured. OPD, however, focused the attention of several hundred cops on people who wanted to sit inside an abandoned, city-owned convention center.

Way to go, Oakland! And way to show where your real priorities are -- not with the average citizens who were actually harmed, but in preventing Occupiers from embarrassing billionaires.

...for this info. Hopefully the fed will step in and end OPD.