"In hunting down Christopher J. Dorner, hell-bent on murderous revenge over being fired from the Los Angeles Police Department, officers twice fired without warning on three innocent civilians, wounding two of them."
http://www.salon.com/2013/02/16/lapds_indefensible_dorner_pursuit/



Mr Blow does not even mention the victims of the other police shooting on the streets of LA. As if they did not matter or even exist. Speaks volumes about what Blow's priorities are all about.

doesn't mean jack shit.

"But what about . . .?" Well, start that discussion then, instead of hijacking another.

and the system destroyed him. He was apparently a good cop, good sailor, good citizen who exhausted appeals and then he took extreme measures. He is being mythologized because he is everyman that see's injustice and knows that the only way to confront corrupt power is to use the tactics he used against a stacked deck. We all saw the reaction from power. They were shitting all over themselves. maybe, just maybe, the next time a mentally challenged person is handcuffed he might not be assaulted...but then again, I doubt it. Killing innocents is wrong. Wrong in his case and wrong when the gov't does it too.

to the wrong man. That is not something a good man with good intentions does.

He was avenging his firing, not a social cause. That his ex-wife was afraid of him should be a clue.

Your comment that was "everyman that see's injustice and knows that the only way to confront corrupt power is to use the tactics he used against a stacked deck. "

Is cheerleading for murder.

Reading comprehension issue apparently.

everyman that see's injustice and knows that the only way to confront corrupt power is to use the tactics he used against a stacked deck.

quit mis-characterizing my post! "Gleefully" really? You're delusional.

Gleeful part in bold.

he is everyman that see's injustice and knows that the only way to confront corrupt power is to use the tactics he used against a stacked deck. We all saw the reaction from power. They were shitting all over themselves. maybe, just maybe, the next time a mentally challenged person is handcuffed he might not be assaulted...but then again, I doubt it

a life.

"It was the only way to resist the evil corrupt powers that be, but it was still wrong"

When you expend 45 words praising and defending, followed by a meek "of course killing is wrong" that's nothing but a lame hedge.

he is everyman that see's injustice and knows that the only way to confront corrupt power is to use the tactics he used against a stacked deck.

his ex being afraid - somebody claiming to be his ex girlfriend (or maybe that was the ex wife?) got on TV while he was still at large and explained he was paranoid, she had to get a TRO on him when they split, and she was afraid for her life while he was running lose. Now if that were me, I would have packed a bag and left the country or at least the area or state I lived in - I wouldn't go on TV! I'd be fricken hiding somewhere until he was caught or dead!

Good grief, the strange shit people do sometimes!

Blow is 100% correct.
People are thinking this is some video game or action movie.

maybe there should be new regulations on video games and movies along with full new laws on citizens with guns and bullets.

Because IMHO I am thinking now video games and violent movies are indeed distorting people's common sense

I also think (MY OWN OPINION), Dorner knowing what he was doing, must also have hated his friends and family.

He had to know what pain he would have left them in, and their life is destroyed now.
BECAUSE OF HIM.

that included illegal actions. He reported on corruption and was terminated for it. His killing of innocents is wrong as is all killing!

And for all intent and purpose he was in the end a very, very, very, very bad cop.

A good cop wouldn't do what Dorner the terrorist did.

I would love to know how he got his guns and bullets.
Probably flashed a phony badge or something to get them.

There is nothing in his doing that is admirable.
He is a selfish coward. Like all mass murderers are. Thinking only of himself.

shame is, without a gun, he couldn't have done what he did.
another reason to outright ban all private citizens from having guns in the street.

And btw, saying he is not a cop is silly.
Hundreds of retired cops and firemen rushed to the World Trade Center on 9-11 to help out.
Once a cop or a fireman, always a cop or fireman.
Same as a doctor.
One doesn't have to practice to always be what one is trained for.
Same as a teacher. Same as a soldier. Same as a Senator.

Ask any retired baseball player or manager(who too might have been fired.)
Once a ballplayer, always a ballplayer.

So if people hate cops, Dorner was a cop. One cannot separate Dorner and cops.
Makes zero logical sense.
And if Dorner was still a cop, and there was a different person doing what Dorner did,
then Dorner would have been part of the cops that the new person was shooting at and killing.

it's only logical.

all the other stuff is 100% strawmen and don't apply in the story at all.

called him violent, twisted and paranoid and was afraid of him?

Doesn't sound like what folks would call "a good guy" in my neck o'the woods.

Last night I was watching a report on Dateline in which it showed how the rape kits of over 12000 victims were left to sit on a shelf in Detroit for over 10 years because the system failed. Did any of the rape victims go vigilante and start killing or assaulting people?

No, but some of the rapists continued to rape and even kill more women.

Failures of the system are no excuse for violence.

cause?

Sorry, suicidal terrorists are terrorists who use something as rationale for their killing.

This goes for mass shooters and suicide bombers. Whatever their perceived "just cause" is totally irrelevant.

Even a stopped watch is right twice a day. He pointed out corruption and racism where they DO exist.

That doesn't mean I'm a "fan". It means I have common sense.

Surely we can look into the problems in the LAPD without praising Dorner.

Nobody in that thread brought up children in airplanes as a topic.

The situation D. operated in is that of a suicidal terrorist looking for ANYTHING as his perceived injustice on which to terrorize society.

Nothing excuses what Dorner did, and I grieve for those he murdered and the loved ones who must deal with such an horrific loss. I grieve also for his family. What a terrible legacy he has left them to struggle with. His smiling countenance defies the ugly criminal he was.

Just my thoughts...

If law enforcement killed those three innocent people, would they be up on charges right now? I suspect not.

One more question.

How do we know Dorner killed the first two people? Its my understanding that they were found dead. Then law enforcement found his manifesto on the inter webs. Sometimes, 2 and 2 doesn't make 4. Its my understanding he had a beef with cops. So why kill those first two people? He let other civilians go...unhurt. Even let the dog go. His beef was with the father of one of the victims.

I just don't like the smell of the first two killings.

I would like to know the outcome of the investigation of the first two killings. OR is the book closed and Dorner is on the hook for four killings? That would be the LAPD's style.

In my twitter (and maybe in yours) and around the web, I keep hearing what I can only call an attempt to redeem Christopher Dorner's murderous rampage. These redemption narratives, from what I can tell, are a mish-mash of cynicism, anger and left-wing populism. Heaped on top of that is LAPD's incredibly ugly history of corruption, racism and mayhem. If you've forgotten what a mess that was, go here. Finally, there's the fact that Dorner himself claimed that he was motivated by racism within the department, and that he'd been fired after blowing the whistle on an instance of police brutality. It would not surprise me if both charges were true.

The urge to make myth, to try and redeem humans who commit immoral acts under the flag of moral causes, is understandable. It's understandable in those who look at Jesse James and see not the straight white supremacist, but the scourge of greedy bankers and acquisitive industrialists against whom, it seemed, none could stand. And it's more understandable among a people disproportionately brutalized by the police who look at Christopher Dorner, and see not a murderer but a plague on a police force that is, itself, above the law.

But those who would form hard arguments based on myth need to confront something -- Christopher Dorner was a murderer:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/02/toward-a-black-jesse-james/273162/

Dorner was animalized from day one. CNN called him an animal. I guess that better than savage which is what the media normally calls people like Dorner. Maybe a thug might have been more correct. The media played it like he was Nat Turner going around killing slave owners. I tend to find that kind of bias all over the media.

Did he murder people? Why yes he did. Did Lanza murder children? Why yes he did. But Lanza was never considered ANIMALISTIC like Dorner. Lanza was mentally ill even though there is no evidence he was mentally ill. All the other mass murderers are mentally ill but Dorner deserved what he got. Folks like Dorner are animalized in the media. Folks like Lanza are humanized in the media. Why is that?

Dorner can't get the benefit of the doubt that he was mentally ill. Why is that? How do we know Dorner didn't suffer from PTSD? The SSGT who killed 16 men, women and children overseas is suffering from PTSD. Or at least that's what he is claiming. No way was Dorner gonna be able to claim insanity. Folks like Dorner don't have that luxury. Its either guilty or not guilty by reason of nothing. Folks like Dorner don't get any other choices.

When some people go on a killing spree folks are quick to jump in and scream for gun safety and mental health reform. When others go on a killing spree folks are quick to condemn the killer.

Why is that?

Because Adam Lanza didn't have fuckwits saying stuff like "he was a good man who was just pushed too far."

Dorner was probably crazy. And he was evil. Just like Lanza.

The two of them can rot in hell together.

Idolizing Jesse James is more like playing KKK and lynching victim. Which were you?

pig.

Only a moral and intellectual idiot would claim he was a hero. Enjoy your brief stay here.

Who idolized them?

This isn't the movies.
This isn't a video game.

Jesse James and Bonnie and Clyde were cowards too. Support them??? Maybe the NRA loved them.

Just like Zimmerman. He is a coward and a murderer too.
Just like Timid McCoward was. Terrorist, murderer. Child murderer.
Just like the killer of the kind doctor Tiller, in a church sanctuary of all places.
COWARDS with guns.
Too many conspiracy theories these people believed in too.

Once he did what he did, his actions became crime, not protest.

while I agree 110% that Dorner was a murderer and his actions should be condemned there is also the fact that his assessment of the LAPD's behavior towards minorities and his firing was also correct, not to mention the circumstances under which he died

His victims in no way deserved to die however I think some people muddle up all of that when IMO they are all separate issues

That is my position. And until this thread I haven't posted one word about Dorner.

IMO what he said about LAPD was not what was wrong, it was his actions that were wrong period.

what I do not want to see happen as a result of this si that LADP whom are known for their **cough cough** bias in their dealings with minorities to be in any way vindicated on that account because of Dorner's actions

disgust/distrust the citizens have for the LAPD.

But maybe I have not paid enough attention to social media...the only reference to it being so pervasive is here at DU and in a right wing site that I sometimes look at...they use Twitter tweets to say that the liberals are rooting for him...but I never did, nor have I seen any posts here that did...

And I reject the idea that you are ether with Dorner of against him...I think that is bullshit....I am against injustice in all it's forms and all of it's manifestations and I am against Dormer AND any and all injustices preformed by anyone involved in it.
And please don't tell me I don't belong here because I feel that way....There is nothing progressive or liberal about the false dichotomy of "with it or against it"...I am not a puppet on a string and I should be free to think for myself.

Not only the Malicious Intruder with the low post count, but this tripe:

In Truth We Trust (3,082 posts)
16. by all accounts he was a good man, with good intentions who was wronged. He appealed an injustice

View profile
and the system destroyed him. He was apparently a good cop, good sailor, good citizen who exhausted appeals and then he took extreme measures. He is being mythologized because he is everyman that see's injustice and knows that the only way to confront corrupt power is to use the tactics he used against a stacked deck. We all saw the reaction from power. They were shitting all over themselves. maybe, just maybe, the next time a mentally challenged person is handcuffed he might not be assaulted...but then again, I doubt it. Killing innocents is wrong. Wrong in his case and wrong when the gov't does it too.

We have went though this before....I don;t approve of your tactics of intimidation and I have told you so.
And you can twist peoples words all you want, it won't convince me...Take it to the jury if you want...then take it to Meta and brag about how you got someone....but don't bother to try to convince me of anything...I am way beyond that.

questions.

And frankly to me you see somewhat sadistic...enjoying it like a child stabbing a bug with a pin and laughing...
Now this is all you are going to get out of me...my honest evaluation of your persona here on DU.

Bravo.

And your name should be our game.

Is way old and I scratch my head as to the supposed mystery.

Listen to "The Highwayman" a Scottish Irish ballad written under the reign of King George III, or any Corrido. Hell, recent ones sing of the greatness of the Cartels. Have you ever heard Joan Baez sing "El Prisionero número nueve?"

Hell, some of us predicted it. This speaks volumes of the LAPD and the sociology around this.

I will be by the corner scratching head. Suffice it to say...getting it does not mean I justify this.

Bottom line is that people are a lot more likely to support murderers who share their politics than we like to admit.

criminalization of the poor, oppression of activism, self-protection, acting without accountability...the list is enormous and deep.

Do not allow this to fall back beneath the radar. This is not about Chris Dorner. This is about the system and situations which created him, which executed him and attempted to cover it up.


Reposting from Occupy Underground:

Occupy the Hood LA: (LAPD) Rally and Press Conference Police Commissioner's Meeting
Public · By Occupy The Hood L.A. Action Assembly

Tuesday, February 19, 2013

8:00am

OTHLAAA Statement:

The LAPD is a notoriously racist institution. The Rampart Division scandal of the late 1990's is one recent reminder of how racist and corrupt the institution is, Racism is endemic to all law enforcement agencies in the United States, and is part and parcel of the foundations of the United States government, its historic mission, and its systemic functioning. What Chris Dorner's manifesto calls into question is the degree to which racism is blatantly ignored, reasoned away, and legitimized in this society in general and in law enforcement in general. Doner’s manifesto mirrors the deadly impact of racism and national oppression of people of color.

For as long as we can remember, poor people especially in Black and Brown communities have been the victims of abusive and criminal acts committed by racist lapd officers. The history of the lapd has clearly shown that the lapd, has been consistently unwilling to impose serious punishment for racist and terrorist conduct either through internal mechanisms, or by referral for prosecution. The lapd refuses to track problem officers or implement any structural change proposed to ameliorate the problem. This malfeasance of the public trust by the lapd, sends a clear message to lapd officers who serve out “street justice”, they will be protected even awarded for their conduct and culture of racism, sexism and violence.

Independent Investigation:
Our research and investigations into the success and failures of so-called police review boards, our findings informs us that (1) Los Angeles Board of Police Commissioners is an utter failure and creates an atmosphere of mis-trust on the part of the people (2) Our findings also informs us that this board as currently composed is not a solution to our problems with the police( 3) The Board of Police Commissioners acts merely as a Rubber-Stamp for internal police investigation and cover-up (4) The board as currently composed lacks real power and failure to confront lapd on controversial polices.

This isn’t about Chris Dorner, its about a long time racist, brutal and oppressive institution known as the lapd. What dorner has done is shine a spot light on the lapd, this not a first because organizations fighting police abuse have done this time and time again. The difference this time is that is has captured the imagination of the whole country in general. This racist, brutal and oppressive institution known by the community as the lapd and its long held customs, its proclivity for violence are what produced Chris Dorner. It’s the chickens coming home to rest…its no fun when the rabbit got the gun. When the law doesn't protect and serve all, we the people have the right and duty to change the law!
We are Calling for and demanding:

1. We call for and demand the lapd express the same zeal and determination it did hunting down Chris Doner and applying it to who continued to officers who murder, beat, harass and profile our youth.
2. We call for an independent investigation into the numerous allegations made by Christopher Dorner against specific named individuals, as well as his general allegations of police conduct, racism and the charges of nepotism that he contends surrounded his firing.
3. An independent investigator
4. An independent prosecutor
5. Community control of the police.
6. An independent elected civilian police accountability board.
7. A full investigation and accountability of officers in involved in shootings of the two Asian women and the white guy, who supposedly were mis-taken as a 6’ 4 baldheaded Black man.
8. We specifically Call for and Demand, the an end to law enforcement policies that promote, enforce and protects racist and reckless actions by police officers when they violate people's Civil and human rights.

Disclaimer: This Rally & Press Conference is not part of the "We stand with Christoper" actions taking place in LA.

LAPD Headquarters
100 W. First Street, Los Angeles, California 90012

http://www.facebook.com/events/422151984535150/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12525618

it was confirmed that Dorner took his own life, as several of us have been saying all along. It isn't that we were psychic. 99% of these situations end up that way. The mass murderer kills as many people as he can, then takes his own life. That's how it always goes.

This is not a person to idolize.

to 'educate' those who disagree.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240223706#post7

I want to state that I agree with the following:

Fighting for justice is noble. Spilling innocent blood is the ultimate act of cowardice. Dorner is not the right emblem for those wronged by the system.

That cannot be said loudly or often enough. "Spilling innocent blood is the ultimate act of cowardice."

I must say though that we need to let our police officers and other public employees know that it is OK to blow the whistle. We need to provide some forum for frustrated employees of all kinds to air their grievances and maybe obtain justice or at least have the satisfaction of knowing that what they perceive as legitimate complaints about injustices and even indignities on the job are listened to and acted upon when appropriate.

Something went very wrong for this guy somewhere. He had to have been mentally ill, at least I don't consider anyone who does these kinds of things "normal". Does that mean it was ok for him to murder? Of course not. A lot of people get fired wrongly and do not go to this length, but something went terribly wrong for him. I don't know if he was on any meds for what he called "severe depression" or he was left untreated.

Now after this happened, I listened to several different scanner feeds. When one reported a single gun shot, then another was a cop that said there was blood spatter on the wall, then I remembered he said he wouldn't be taken alive - I did feel he shot himself and didn't actually burn to death. Come to find out he did shoot himself (I guess, I heard there was a sniper there - whether that is true is anyone's guess). However we didn't know that as viewers of the situation and it looked like a lynching. It sounded like revenge when they were yelling to use the burners. It did not feel like a conventional method when dealing with people like Dorner. I couldn't help feel a little uncomfortable with it all.

However I'm a certain as I can be that Dorner was never going to let them kill him, I think he wanted to do it himself.

This whole thing is a tragedy for all involved. The innocents he killed, the families of those he killed, his family and yes, for him too. I don't know what he was like before, whether he was a "good guy" or not. Did the LAPD drive him to do this or was he always unbalanced? I don't know.

I always believe that people like Dorner should be taken alive IF possible. However I don't think that was what Dorner actually wanted.

He was WRONG for dealing with it the way he did. Whether it's Dorner, Lanza or anyone else who does these things, to me these people were not playing with a full deck even if a court of law would not recognize them as insane if they lived to see a trial. I just wish we were better equipped to deal with mental illness.