the proud inventors of The Surge, when things went bad and a salvage operation for the glorious war was needed. The Frederick Kagan referenced in this article also later went to Afghanistan with his wife and the two of them directed Petraeus's conduct of the war when he took over as commander. Joe Lieberman and John McCain figure prominently in this article--explains why they can't let The Surge go:

http://www.salon.com/2007/01/06/aei_2/

McCain was always a part of the cabal. Lieberman got the votes of pacifists in earnest and turned on them. Too bad there is no jail for treasonous party members especially when their actions lead to unnecessary deaths.

Lebanon
Iraq
Libya
Egypt
Yeman
Syria
Afghanistan
Pakistan

and working on Iran and central Africa

..who was well aware of PNAC long before they got their new Pearl Harbor.
It was really frustrating watching what was happening, and seemingly intelligent people saying to me "oh that's just a silly conspiracy theory."

No, they have a website!

on the PNAC website seemed so wacky back then. Now it seems the thinking is mainstream.

known with names like: Elliott Abrams William Kristol Donald Rumsfeld Paul Wolfowitz John Bolton Charles Krauthammer

Did anyone ever trust these guys? They're neo-cons. They're the same ones pushing for war with Iran.

Iraq: Bush lied
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022389965

they even did back then.

is a despicable asshole. The 2000 and 2004 elections were a coup for these warmongers.

Exclusive Copy of Jeb Bush Letter Praising Swift Liars

I realize this is not relevant to this thread, but I just wanted to say that.

push to invade Iran and probably North Korea if they are successful in getting Washington to invade Iran.

And who THEY hang with - in and out of power. Remember bill kristol has a whole set-up of his own with his Weekly Standard magazine that spews all kinds of PNAC and NeoCON poison at every step. Think of the rat's nest THAT is! And who's involved there, writing and editing, and eventually of course, getting face-time on Pox Noise to legitimize them as the next generation of movers and shakers from Hell.

It's exhausting. But it has to be done. We HAVE TO keep track of these people - where they scatter to, and who they work for now, and in what circles they're still actively moving, since they're still out of power with President Obama reelected and the White House remaining OUT of enemy hands. Thank GOD!

Did you mean the American Enterprise Institute?

Not that it makes much difference. The American Enterprise Institute and the Heratage Foundation are like identical twins with their agendas.

They all are funded mostly by the Koch brothers so they are pretty incestuous in their relationship. Same people and same wacky ideas abound in all of those institutes.

The younger Bush.

Iran....if he ever gets to the WH.

That ALONE is reason enough to work like hell to keep him OUT of the White House. 'Cause if he gets there, he brings all that same PNAC vermin and all their little friends back into power with him. Take that one to the bank. It doesn't matter HOW circumspect he sounds now, about the Iraq war, it doesn't matter HOW reasonable he talks now. He's STILL one of them. And not to be trusted as far as you can throw your car.

These bastards ALL have to be watched. ALL THE TIME. We have to know where they are and who they hang with AT ALL TIMES! Because that's always a good indication of what they're up to.

He is nothing more than an usurper king and history should record him as such. He quickly took on as many powers of a dictator as he dared and this was one of them.

they actually used their real names.

I believe this is why they were so open to it and used their names. They thought all Americans would think this was wonderful, well trust funded, entitled, white, male Americans anyway. The rest of us didn't matter.

enough back then to put it all out in the public. Now they have all gone underground. Underground as in they don't broadcast their world domination plan. But the ideology is there and flourishing. I would even go so far as saying they have a majority of politicians supporting them.

If you floated this for a vote it wouldn't get 15% of the population supporting it though.

Some Democracy we live in.

Responsible for millions of deaths.

and yet it seems that they are the Admiral and Captain of the Mother Ship. That's really impressive Ghost. It's going into my bookmarks.

I also had a post on the old DU about how Cheney was trying to get Wolfowitz into the Pentagon before the recount was done, or even before the SCOTUS stepped in. He was willing to spend his own money to do it, too!

Peace,

Ghost

countries have a warrant out for him for war crimes and some cities in the US. Don't ask me which right now because I only remember reading about it but not the particulars. Anyway, I hope he forgets and he goes to those places and they arrest him and put him on trial. It would be so sweet.

Why?

I know individually they are still active, as a group not as much. They may have gone underground to collectively come up with a new agenda and then disperse to other groups. Makes it harder for them to have a public (cough, cough, transparent) agenda.

Good point.

It makes me think of back room deals that were made in the past and no one was aware of them until it was too late. It even makes them more dangerous.

Some of the DLC founding members were also signatories of the official PNAC Manifesto.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=110&topic_id=80&mesg_id=3146

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1665765&mesg_id=1666003

The DLC has "gone underground" too !

Coincidence?

Is now the only litmus test. Either you as a leader are popular or you aren't - doesn't matter what policies you have made as part of your agenda.

Bush could NOT have gone to Iraq without active HELP from the Democratic Party leadership,
....but NOW it is ALL Bush-the-Lesser and those PNAC people LIED us into WAR.

Those who don't know History....

Those who try to re-write History....

Truth IS that most of the Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party DID oppose the Invasion of Iraq, but then, as now, they were marginalized by the more conservative Big Business/Free Trade faction of the Party (DLC etc).

ANYBODY holding a position in the Democratic Party who claims that Bush Fooled Them should be eliminated from that position for a shocking lack of good judgement.
EVERYBODY KNEW that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld were LYING.

Some chose to STAND against them,
but others went with the flow for reasons of Political Convenience,
or supported Bush for more venal reasons.

I'm sure that ALL who helped to needlessly kill a MILLION Iraqis would prefer to cover up their participation,
or rationalize it away with excuses ("Bush Lied" What could I doooooo? ),
but the HISTORY is written for all who choose to see.


[font size=4]The Democratic Party Honor Roll[/font]
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the WAR Machine.

The Authorization to Use Military Force in Iraq
(The Iraq War Resolution)

United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu


Some Democrats who originally voted FOR the Invasion of Iraq
later recanted their vote, and apologized.
Others, like Hillary, have stood by their vote.

No Democrat who OPPOSED the Invasion of Iraq has been appointed to a position of authority or power in the current administration.




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

although I probably would have voted for her for President if she had been the candidate in the General Election.

he was an opponent of the war. He was on board and on board hard for years on end.

I'm not one of those "running around" praising him although he has come to oppose the wars so are the claims made. I personally would have preferred a Wesley Clark but I'm not the President so why even bring this up to me?

as far as I know.

should we hold this against her? What's the speculation with respect to Iran if she does get elected President? Is Biden a better candidate for President instead of Hillary because of her hawkishness? Just askin?

opinion, too old. I'm a few years older than she is. Trust me, she will be too old to be president for the full 8 years.

although his seat is now occupied by the Honorable Keith Ellison!

...but if you mean Paul Wellstone,
he was a Senator, and Al Franken now has his seat.


[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

He wrote an article for MinnPost a couple of weeks ago, but he seems to have started to learn rightward in his old age.

Committee for the Liberation of Iraq which lobbied through Rice's office had a cast of characters from PNAC's bowels:

Members of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq included, John McCain, Newt Gingrich, William Kristol, General Barry McCaffrey, and former CIA director James Woolsey. (Woolsey proposed the reinstatement of a constitutional monarchy in Iraq, in which a king would appoint the prime minister.)

George Shultz, Amb. Jeane J. Kirkpatrick, Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton, and Elliot Abrams were also involved with the group. Abrams and Bolton are founding members of the CLI.

Elliot Abrams is a senior Bush official on the National Security Council. He was formally head of President Reagan's efforts in the Middle East. Abrams, was convicted for President Reagan's crimes in the Iran-Contra scandal and then pardoned by Bush I.

As assistant secretary of state for Inter-American affairs under President Reagan, Abrams was responsible for the controversial policies of that administration in Nicaragua and El Salvador during the 1980s, and played a key role in the U.S. relationship with Manuel Noriega. In 2000, Abrams was made the improbable president of the Ethics and Public Policy Center. In 2001 he was hired by Condolezza Rice for a position on the NSC overseeing Arab/ Israeli negotiations. http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/6895 (The Return of Elliot Abrams)

Among the other participants in the CLI were: president and executive director, Randy Scheunemann (Scheunemann served until recently as a consultant on Iraq to Donald Rumsfeld), Treasurer Julie Finley, Gary Schmitt (director of the conservative foundation, Project for the New American Century) and Richard Perle, (chairman of Rumsfeld's Defense Policy Board), who is also closely associated PNAC.

The present war with Iraq is the ambition of the corporate wing of the conservative establishment who views Iraq as a potential wedge against the domination of Mideast oil-producing nations which, in many respects, are openly hostile to American economic interests in the region. Having failed to turn the first war to their corporate advantage, the exiled power brokers brooded and plotted to revive a public campaign against Saddam Hussein which would unseat the dictator and allow the U.S. to install an authority there compliant to American business concerns.

Ominously, in the fall of 2002 the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (Chairman of the Board, Bruce Jackson), was established in the Washington offices of the right-wing American Enterprise Institute. The CLI engaged in educational and advocacy efforts to mobilize U.S. and international support for policies aimed at ending the regime of Saddam Hussein.
http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo1119.html
http://www.aei.org /

This advocacy came at the same time that Condoleezza Rice and Stephen Hadley were engaged in a series of briefings with foreign policy groups, Iraq specialists and other opinion makers that was termed as a "new phase," by a White House spokesman, who described the goal as building fresh public support for Bush administration policy vs. Iraq.

Members of the CLI met in November of 2002 with President Bush's national security adviser, Condi Rice, in an effort to mount "education and advocacy efforts to mobilize U.S. and international support freeing the Iraqi people from tyranny."

Condi Rice would be an unremarkable figure in this Bush administration, if she were judged solely on her work experience outside of government, in which she perfected the role of corporate promoter and apologist.

From her position at the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors, to the board rooms of the Transamerica Corporation, and Hewlett Packard, Rice forged the corporate relationships which propelled her into the White House executive club. Rice, is a former longtime member of the board of directors of Chevron Oil, which merged with Texaco. Rice has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

Rice's contribution to the Bush dynasty began when the Soviet Union collapsed and the Bush I administration needed an experienced Sovietologist. She was basically bullish on the Soviets and she was appointed Director of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council.

She was undoubtably brought on board to teach George I and his clan the difference between Perestroika and Glasnost. She has assumed the traditional role of an international affairs Svengali to George II - a role that has distinguished such past notables as, Colin Powell, John Poindexter and Robert Iran-Contra McFarland - and she dutifully adjusted our experience-deficient commander-in-chief to the doctrine of her conservative think-tank benefactors.

Her deputy sidekick, Stephen Hadley, has been advocating policies for many years which have, to no one's surprise, found their way into the ideological bulldozer which forms the doctrine of the Bush league's foreign policy.

Stephen Hadley served as assistant secretary of defense for international security policy from 1989 to 1993 and was responsible for defense policy on NATO and Western Europe, nuclear weapons and ballistic missile defense, and arms control. He was active in the negotiations that resulted in the START I and START II treaties.

Hadley was also a member of the National Security Council staff during the earlier Bush administration. Former Lockheed president, Bruce Jackson and former Lockheed counsel, Hadley have worked closely together on the Committee to Expand NATO. Jackson was president of this entity, based in the Washington offices of the right-wing American Enterprise Institute; Hadley was its secretary.
http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/articles/petrasse... (Nato Expansion, James Petras)

As reported by Karl Grossman of the Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space, Stephen Hadley told an Air Force Association Convention in a speech September 11, 2000, "Space is going to be important. It has a great feature in the military,"
http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/feb01grossman.htm (Aerospace Executives On Bush Star Wars Team, Karl Grossman)

Hadley worked closely with the Bush-Cheney campaign as a foreign policy advisor specializing in European and Russian affairs. He was a partner in Shea & Gardner, the Washington law firm representing Lockheed Martin. He was a member of the Vulcans, an eight-person foreign policy team formed during the Bush campaign that included Condoleezza Rice and Richard Perle.


*me- internet-derivative book, 2004 'Power of Mischief'

expanding what people need to know about this. I hope Rachel Maddow will delve into this in her special. I haven't read the book she is building her show from, so I don't know if what we all knew back then will be included.

him to use military action against Iraq over wmd's. It's had been their plan for years. All they needed was the Supreme Court to appoint GWB to go along with their plans.

with the public lies to the UN and US.
Not that they're back, they just changed the storefront.

and still hasn't been able to wash it off.

Chaired by Kristol

http://www.newamericancentury.org/aboutpnac.htm

The group: Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz

Intensive 30-minute info-music pnac immersion
http://freechannel.org/pdr_pnac.mp3

Originally posted 2005-08-16 (downloads too slow lately):
http://radio.indymedia.org/en/node/6404


Pass it on.

"Most of the folks on the "YES" list have recanted their votes. Said it was wrong and a mistake.

I can't remember how many times we have gone over and over the IWR vote.

And honestly I'd personally like to kick every DU'er in the ASS who campaigned against John Kerry in 2004 with their fucking "But he voted for the WAR." bullshit. In '04 we had a chance to elect a LIBERAL for President. But we fucking threw it away for FOUR MORE YEARS OF BUSH and his economic meltdown. "

Someone actually said this on DU.

Rachel did say it would be upsetting.

These sleeping dogs are very much awake, in positions of power, and making so much money, my head would spin. You weren't very clear that you were copying another post. Sorry.

And I agree. Never forget the lapse of judgment (to use a charitable phrase) on a vote for the war. I expect my elected representatives to be a smarter than that.

instructions.

up to as well.

We sit here and criticize them and almost predict what they will do if they get back into power. Yet we are powerless to do anything to prevent any of this from happening - just like we were powerless to prevent BushCo from getting us into these two unnecessary wars.

Are we going to be looking back 10 years hence and say the same things about Iran then that we are saying now about how BushCo lied to us and deceived us into these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

A lot of us knew then what BushCo was up to - but we couldn't prevent them from doing it.

It just pisses me off that we know now who is the problem (like the Koch Bros and their minions) and we all know what needs to be done to fix the economy and get this great country back on track - but we are powerless to make it happen. We sit here on DU and criticize. We listen to MSNBC hosts like Maddow, Schultz, O'Donnell, Hayes, Matthews and hear them tell us what the problems are and who is at fault - we hear them criticize - we criticize - yet we are still powerless to do anything about any of this.

We hear the likes of a Thom Hartmann tell us all the bad things that Reagan brought down on us and how Reagan basically began the dismantling of this country. We hear Mitch McConnell say that his only goal is to make Obama a one term President. We hear John Boehner say he will not negotiate with the President. We see the filibuster tactics in play. We see the House Repugs voting in a block to block this President on virtually everything he tries to do. We see them criticizing him for not taking the lead and then we see the President take the lead and then get criticized for taking the lead and hear them saying that he should stay out of it.

All this is going on under our very eyes - and - we are powerless to prevent it.

Call me a conspiracy theorist - but someone, somewhere is out to take down the United States - and this has been going on for a long time now - and by God - it looks like they are succeeding - and - we are powerless to prevent it.

I'm sure that's completely coincidental though.

Sarcasm duly noted.

All they needed was to take out a middle east dictator, shove a pallet of democracy and freedom out the back of a C130, and everything else would take care of itself.

THAT is why everything in Iraq turned to shit. They had no actual plan for what would happen if the Iraqis didn't spontaneously start erecting monuments to Bush and start signing big contracts with US corporations.

Here's one tragically hilarious idea they had that, um, didn't work out: "Destination Baghdad"!

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11239

Most of this insanity has disappeared down the memory hole.

I think that happened, not with the Iraqis, but with our government sending contractors over there and to Afghanistan. Mucho bucks have been made at taxpayer expense, not their taxes because they really don't pay taxes, but the taxes paid by our diminishing middle class.

They set up the "Iraqi-American Chamber of Commerce" to bring prosperity to the Iraqis and especially to all of the corporations that would be opening offices, factories, Mcdonalds, Victoria's Secret outlets and call centers there.

They never got much beyond the "security contractor" stage. They should all be in jail.

If nothing else but for stupidity. The first time I read their website and this was before the push to go to Iraq, I thought their ideas to be juvenile and not very well thought out. I think they should have spent their time making a video game instead or maybe bird houses in their garage.

the attempted corporatization of Iraq. Really bizarre stuff.

She is an absolute expert in providing background on scumbags like these. She can take the most twisting turning story and present it in an easily understandable (and entertaining) way.

She's not only smart...... she's scary smart!

know if they dig down as deep as the PNAC involvement.

..... (Heritage Foundation and American Enterprise Institute).

Did you know...... that the PNAC, The Weekly Standard, and the AEI all shared the same building in DC?

I don't know if they still do........ but it's a small world ain't it?!!!

They were all in each other's beds.

What a roster of cockroaches.

...singled out on the PNAC world map. And it was Iraq that the Bushistas claimed had WMDs.

A coincidence? I think not...


________

to allow the Bush administration to strike anywhere in the Middle East. Look up Joe Biden on that, when he was the Foreign Relations Committee chair--I think he prevented it from happening.

I remember in the early days, just after Bush stuffed his crotch and did his Mission Accomplished speech and all the neocons were gloating and dancing and proclaiming what geniuses they were, there was already talk of moving on into Syria. They were planning to invade pretty much every hostile country in the Middle East: Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria. Now if you look at a map, all of those countries are adjacent to each other and all have lots of oil. Who did we put in charge of Afghanistan? Hamid Karzai, a former Unocal oil man.

With all those countries conquered, all they would have to do is put a pipeline running through all of them, and that would pump out oil right into the Mediterranean for the next 100 years, securing America's dominance into the next century. Oh, and make them all a shitload of money in the process.

The Iraqi insurgency put a damper on their plans. They were so arrogant they never thought a bunch of rag tag militia with homemade bombs could pose a challenge to the U.S. military. But like many fascists before them, they were wrong.