because I made a post in meta (how dare I) about a jury I served on where the man said his wife forgot she was raped when asked in a phone survey. And he put the word raped in quotation marks. The jury decided to leave it. In meta I provided the offending post that was alerted on, and the jury results, stating that I was on the wrong side of a jury again, but that I didn't think I was wrong.

Of course he directed all his venom at me for a post that another male poster made in the comments. His attack on me was aggressive and beyond the pale. It was accusatory and false.

Yet, you will see appreciation threads of him on DU, because he calls others he disagrees with liars. And he thinks they are the bullies.

I agree, there is a huge sexism issue on DU. Thanks for speaking up. I hope you don't end up getting a reputation of being an outraged, rabid dog, witch hunter for making this post, like some have foisted upon others who dare to broach the subject.

you're just dismissed as overreacting and thin skinned. There are plenty of people who think women should shut up and allow people (meaning men) to enjoy their freedom of speech.

Someone on DU said that the blame lies with the producers and the actresses, as if somehow someone had to be blamed for showing "boobs" in movies. And if the actresses Seth named had said anything they would have been piled on for being femminazis or bad sports or just wanting attention.

At least I'm glad women in the media and women like us are lashing out at this crap. I remember very well when misogyny as taken for granted and reacted to as if it was a normal thing.

You have to be pretty tough skinned to take it. But I would suggest that those who feel like you, make an appearance in there and let your feelings be known.

Out here in GD, you get the same issue, but on a much smaller scale. And meta is the place where we get to discuss community standards.

When I asked people on GD, the majority of opinions were the opposite.

Strange place.

in quotes, was such an offense! I was such a bully!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looking to control everyone and everything!!!!

And that is my MO. Yep, NOT.

It's really so much fun to watch women fighting for respect isn't it.

IL...

But leave me out of it.

I'm just waiting on the shitstorm hurricane to blow through here...which you seem intent on pointing at me.

Not only do you put words in another's DU'ers mouth, you then use the invented words to call him a misogynist.

I wonder why.

in this case. In short, you are calling another DU'er a misogynist based on nothing but your own invention.

Subversive how?

Last edited Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:19 PM - Edit history (1)

it was pretty ugly, wasn't it?

Was there anything new or interesting in it? It was pretty much stuff that racists and misogynsts already do say and think. Maybe just because it seemed mean spirited- the Loser song was just stupid. He needs a better writing team- actual clever lyrics- to pull it off.

to do other things on oscar night... seems this year, they let the philistines loose.

Oscar has long outlived its purpose.

The best part of Oscar night, is switching to another channel or turning the TV off. Something which I believe we all can do should we choose to do so.

Sexism and misogyny are ubiquitous, inculcated into each child's brain from a very early age:

"Boys are ____________." (you fill in the blank: bigger, stronger, faster, better in math, better in science, just plain better. )

"Boys will be boys."

"You { throw, catch, run, cry} like a girl!"

Humans of both genders spend a lifetime coming to terms with this institutionalized wound--the hierarchy of the sexes--assigning power, privilege, worth and esteem on the basis of our genitalia.

And, yes, I too have addressed sexism and misogyny on DU, only to have several DUers blast me for being too "shrill, sensitive, picky" -- or just plain wrong.

I was raked over the coals and ended up watering down my expectations regarding how sexism and misogyny should be treated by liberals.

Thankfully I snapped out of it.

I left DU for a while.

Then, I began noticing that sarcasm, derision and incivility have become the rule rather than the exception.

Now, I've begun addressing sexism, misogyny, racism -- and any other disrespectful or delimiting 'ism' -- whenever possible.

Plus, I've learned to avoid being snarky myself. (That's been an essential growth spurt for me
)

I turned him off. Not because I was offended. But I was embarrassed for him (thought he was bombing), and I just didn't find him funny. I did watch the entire opening monologue. Just not funny. Which is worse for a comedian than offending.

And I heard a few liberal talk radio hosts, both male and female talk about how funny that bit was.

So I am not cutting up my liberal card for laughing.

Misogynist? Maybe, but I tuned him out way early.

i think it, for me, it jumped the shark with the kate winslet section, that seemed a tad shaming. i think it was in bad taste to point this out in front of everyone on national tv.

on a night when people are awarded oscars for their performances, for their talents, and to be remembered in history for that. Not their boobs.

That is where it went wrong in my book.

he gets to kate winslet and he mentions every movie she was in and finishes with the line "and the movie she's making now" that seemed to move to the point of shaming. i dont want women who bare their breasts to be made (or attempted to be made) ashamed of doing so. the baring was in the course of doing her job, this is how they make a living and i think it was kind of taste-less to throw it into a public venue such as that. it's not like they took topless photos of themselves and posted it on twitter

You have to figure that the folks who put it together knew what they were getting. So it's either a "WTF were they thinking" conclusion or a "this is exactly the publicity they wanted" conclusion, right?

god, that was classic

Oh, yeah, Hollywood is TERRIFIED of johnsons.

(Why the euphemism? Because boob is a euphemism and I didn't want to discriminate.)

Loved his singing and dancing and game show announcer voice.

singing and tap dancing -- so amazingly old school -- and then crude and irreverent humor on the other hand.

[link:

I'm also thinking of Ricky Gervais's hosting of the Golden Globes here.

Either these shows are to respectfully honor people who have excelled at their craft, or they are to be celebrity roasts that would make Dean Martin proud.

Hollywood, please decide.

I found the whole boobs number -- especially with the inclusion of the LA Gay Men's Choir -- insulting and demeaning.

at the start and then three hours later the rest. The networks have to get someone to carry the load
in the middle so people won't turn the dial. Maybe they should fill it with music instead of comedy. Have
good singers sing songs from movies in between awards for things most people don't care about

And I think the Oscars need to give Neil Patrick Harris a shot, if Billy Crystal won't come back, and take a look at how the Tonys formats its show. Yes, different genres, but I think one could learn from the other.

Yeah, I think it does say something about the attention span that the producers think they have to sink to crass humor to keep people tuned in.

It used to be that they did make production numbers out of the Best Song nominees. The reaction to Shirley Bassey singing "Goldfinger" (OMG) should be a clue that people would be receptive to that.

that NPH singing "Not Just for Gays Anymore" at the Oscars would melt the DU servers into a sea of seething outrage.

(true or not) that Seth is gay and I think the joke he'd be joining the choir in 2015 was just playing to that buzz.

Your context sheds some light on it, but my initial impression was that the women's boobs were just so attractive that even gay men would take notice. It was just too sexual and sexist for me.

But as I said, I wasn't aware of the buzz.

Women actors have to show their boobs. To be honest, I was shocked to see some of the named actors not laughing. I mean, it's not like their damn boobs are art or anything.

All his Family Guy stuff is satire, too.

I think Dean Martin would be horrified at what passes for a celebrity roast today. At least his were classy.

either and doesn't want to do it again. He has a very strange mentality of pushing the envelope to the nth degree...and it doesn't appear to be in a quest for humor...but more a quest to shock people.

Most of the time, he falls flat, sometimes his irreverence is funny to me (Family Guy..when the dog was riding in the car hanging his head out the window smoking a cigarette)

I do think people are mixing two issues with the boob song though. On one level, it was just plainly not funny. On another level, it calls to light the sad reality that actresses who don't want to disrobe may feel that they have to do this to get roles. Maybe if they banded together and all agreed not to, things might be different. You have to admit, if you never agreed to do it, you wouldn't have been called out by Seth.

in them. Not really appropriate for an awards show. It's hard to stop an industry from making money and making movies that
they think people will like. Short of censorship...which even the actors are soundly against. As for the boob thing...don't think his intent was to trash them..think it was what he thought was a silly song.

just his stupid brand of not-funny humor

hostile and shaming to women who are free enough to do it.
I wonder if this is such a new concept to men that there's an element of surprise to it?
I really don't see any man taking that angle, or owning up to the hostility. For me, it's just the same old shit. Aside from the initial "Oh no, he didn't" there's nothing new there.

I've seen where all of a sudden an actress is totally gratuitously showing her breasts and when it really was obvious that her toplessness had absolutely NOTHING to do with the story and everything to with reducing her and the gender she represents to being nothing more valuable than a pair of mammary glands.

The fact that so many actresses either see nothing wrong with this (having been brainwashed into repeating the mindless rationalization that it's OK to get naked in front of the camera when the story calls for it -- please, so why is it so very seldom "necessary" to show a man from the front with his shorts off?), or compelled to accept it in order to have a movie career, says how very little and how very seldom women are valued by Hollywood for anything more than their body parts.

That's why I think no one involved in creating the "we see your boobs" number even thought anything of the hostility and ridicule inherent to it. It does surprise me that it was so blatant, since of course Hollywood is all about pretending boob shots are simply necessary artistic expression, but I chalk that up to MacFarlane's ego.

Tens of thousands of articles that say Obama was not born in the US. Are you saying they have a point?

And where on DU are men saying women are "thin skinned, humorless whiners, filled with 'poutrage'"? If you're going to make an argument, either show us or at least be honest.

Every single thread on the oscar mess has condescending comments that minimize a woman's right to be treated as an equal citizen.

I posted an opinion piece (not my writing) yesterday and there were many more like it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022430044#post12

All you have to do is read some of the comments to these ( cali has one from yesterday too ). Some posters comment without considering the plights women are still facing today, including pay equality and reproductive rights. Yes, some of us get angry when we see sexism portrayed. Whether it was meant to be funny or not, some of us find it offensive.

There are whole threads devoted to making fun of female DUers and our supposed OUTRAGE and lack of humor and thin skin.

and these sources with birther crap? How pathetic. That's beyond dumb. And go read some of the threads.

Damn, I truly do hate, er, lack of critical thinking, dear.

and thank you for speaking out here on this topic, as you so often do.

Comes with the territory, I'm afraid.

Nice job on this OP. It definitely shows this isn't some matter of a few women not getting a joke.

It shows its a matter of a society that is largely blind to misogyny.

as if this is about a joke about breasts.

As predictable as sunrise.

e.g. Pretending that anyone objecting to a stripper giving a lapdance to a 14 year old simply has a problem with nudity.

They purposely do not want to get it.

I simply do not get why other people can't understand why this is so offensive.

but for the sake of consistency, don't they have to condemn *everyone*? Howard Stern, Tom Leykis, the low-rent porn industry, advertising firms, etc.?

them to go searching for sexism in every other facet of the entertainment industry.

If not, then why?

we have enough homeless children to fill an elementary school. And speaking of our schools, they have been suffering for a long time from underfunding because our tax laws allow very rich people from other countries (Saudi Oil Sheiks) and other states (Romney, McCain, Oprah) to own property and live here without paying the property taxes on their mansions for the privilege.

Our movie industry keeps a lot of people employed at good union jobs. I appreciate the outrage, but I wish our lawmakers would address those concerns as well as those of the women here who are in dire poverty and in need of every program that probably are going to be cut because of the sequester. Our movie industry has always been patriarchal, yet it has enabled many women to make outrageous amounts of money because they are prettier than the average woman. The Oscars are awards to acknowledge the artistic achievement of the people in the industry who entertain the world. There has been controversy in the past because of the hosts. (I'm remembering the flap when Whoopie Goldberg, hosted.) Bob Hope, who seemed to offend no one except the politicians he made fun of is dead.

Really, our lawmakers need to get to work to take care of the very real problems, the women of this state face. I hope in the future they don't televise the Oscars. It's an industry thing anyway. They should keep it that way because of this shit storm. Back in the forties, the Oscars were a dinner party thrown in the Coconut Grove at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles and the awards were given out then. The next day people read about it in the newspapers and maybe Vanity Fair covered it. Done!

maybe these "lawmakers" might want to concentrate on making laws so that women make equal pay to men for equal work. Maybe some legislation along the lines of a woman's rights to her own body would be a good thing to work on. How about anything that focuses on fixing the actual problems instead of complaining and pointing the finger at a performer who cannot do anything but point out what's wrong. At least Seth gives money to liberal causes and supports our candidates. They take his money with one hand and slap him down with the other. Use the momentum to get something done instead of playing the politics of condemnation without action.

He has spoken out for progressive issues, as well. He can only draw attention to things. It is up to the lawmakers to do the work. Instead of bitching about it, they should get to work making things better.

That makes no sense whatsoever. That's like saying a child is to blame for being beaten because they stood in front of their abuser.

I couldn't have picked him out of a lineup, much less knew what his shtick was.

I thought it was funny.
Boobs are wonderful beautiful things and he wasn't trashing them for it, he was sort of celebrating it.
And if boobs are exposed,I'm looking!
On that note: Feel free to show me Boobs

This one is good, too.
http://jezebel.com/5987118/sexism-fatigue-when-seth-macfarlane-is-a-complete-ass-and-you-dont-even-notice

I'll check them later.

What you saw at the Oscars is pretty much the norm for him humor-wise and not even close to being the most shocking and offensive thing he has ever done. His shows are chock-full of borderline misogynistic jokes about how ugly some female celebrities are and that's not even scratching the surface. One episode of "Family Guy" from a few years ago featured a scene of Quagmire (a womanizing supporting character) RAPING Marge Simpson, has her actually ENJOY IT, and then has him MURDER the entire Simpson family after Homer finds them in bed together later on. Reportedly, Matt Groening was furious and it almost ended his friendship with MacFarlane.

I'm not a fan of him or his shows but my point is that he's been doing this schtick for years so where were all the complainers before?

a kid on a swing. a woman breast feeding. the kid sees the boob. flies thru the air, lands on the lap kicking the baby into a trash can and starts sucking. the mom takes kid away and i forget what teh kid was yelling out, but another offensive.

i couldnt believe the shit. trash. then we wonder why everyone is demanding that we all live in their stinky trash. it is no longer a choice. it is being demanded we all wallow in the gutters.

None of it seems all that sexy to me.

not that we're mouth breathing sexist, but that most of us aren't so tightly wound that a boob joke is the end of the world.