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HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:44 PM Feb 2013

Is modern capitalism currently experiencing corruption or is capitalism corrupt by design?

Would capitalism in America experience a sea change for the better if more democratic initiatives were gradually introduced or is it doomed to the Iron Law of Oligarchy no matter what happens to it?

No real right or wrong answer here, just asking.


12 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Corruption is the Feature.
10 (83%)
Corruption is merely a Bug.
2 (17%)
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Is modern capitalism currently experiencing corruption or is capitalism corrupt by design? (Original Post) HughBeaumont Feb 2013 OP
I say it's inherent as it discards other equations of value for profit. freshwest Feb 2013 #1
I think it is corrupt by design gollygee Feb 2013 #2
Of course it's corrupt at its core, but... TreasonousBastard Feb 2013 #3
"...competition can prevent oligarchies from taking over..." socialist_n_TN Feb 2013 #18
I used to think regulation was the problem. woo me with science Feb 2013 #4
If we've learned anything from the last 50 years . . . . HughBeaumont Feb 2013 #5
Norway, Sweden and Switzerland are capitalist countries. Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #6
Germany seems to be doing well too. Archaic Feb 2013 #8
Yep. Universal health care, low unemployment. (nt) Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #9
No military shenanigans, no CEOs making 300 times what their workers do, better public transport. HughBeaumont Feb 2013 #19
all systems are corruptable hence the need for regulations Johonny Feb 2013 #7
but would not that mean that the system of regulation is DeadEyeDyck Feb 2013 #11
certainly your regulatory body can be corrupted Johonny Feb 2013 #14
depends on the greed level of the capitalists in question. sharing and caring is good nt msongs Feb 2013 #10
Design is probably the wrong word. Starry Messenger Feb 2013 #12
Capitalism is not a social model nor is it a form of government. The nations that allow capitalism Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #13
Capitalism and democracy are two different things FarCenter Feb 2013 #15
Other nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #16
Humans are corrupt..every system has corruption Mr. Blue Sky Feb 2013 #17

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
2. I think it is corrupt by design
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:52 PM
Feb 2013

I think competition can be good, but the inherent corruption of capitalism has to be held back with serious regulation and an impartial government and court system or you end up with what we're seeing.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
3. Of course it's corrupt at its core, but...
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:01 PM
Feb 2013

find a superior system that has succeeded by any measure.

It is a human system that will, if allowed, default to the lowest common denominator of human behavior. It has two saving graces, though-- that competition can prevent oligarchies from taking over, and that a democratic government is in there as a competitor when oligarchies do arise from unfair competition.



socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
18. "...competition can prevent oligarchies from taking over..."
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 07:09 PM
Feb 2013
The last part of that statement is pretty much of a knee slapper too.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
4. I used to think regulation was the problem.
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:05 PM
Feb 2013

More and more I am coming to realize that the underlying value system is what is horrifically flawed.

We are on earth a short time. Each one of our lives is priceless. Profit and competing for survival should not be the focus and meaning of our existence while we are here.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
5. If we've learned anything from the last 50 years . . . .
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:13 PM
Feb 2013

1) Not everything should be about making a buck.
2) Government should never, EVER be run like a business; not even the most democratic business.
3) An economic system based on faith, competition over cooperation and war is doomed to crash like clockwork.

. . . . for those of us who knows what a crash feels like, that is . . .

Archaic

(273 posts)
8. Germany seems to be doing well too.
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:17 PM
Feb 2013

I'd be interested in hearing alternatives, but this structure should work fine if there are deterring penalties for abusing power and position.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
19. No military shenanigans, no CEOs making 300 times what their workers do, better public transport.
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 07:53 PM
Feb 2013

It's because they have stronger and smarter governments and regulation . . . something we'll never likely see here.

Johonny

(20,852 posts)
7. all systems are corruptable hence the need for regulations
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:13 PM
Feb 2013

and swift acting responsible government. No system is essentially stable forever which is why you need constant vigilance.

Johonny

(20,852 posts)
14. certainly your regulatory body can be corrupted
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:48 PM
Feb 2013

hence you can't just set up a regulatory body and walk away and pretend everything will be great forever. You need constant vigilance.

For example when we ended Jim Crow laws they set up a process by which to hopefully regulate against such laws in the future. But certainly such laws are creeping back into the election process and it is time to once again ask are we really regulating well our election process.

The world is forever transforming hence you need your government that actually wants to and is capable of governing. Which is the opposite of what Republicans promise.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
12. Design is probably the wrong word.
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:38 PM
Feb 2013

It implies someone planned it. It's a mechanical feature that perpetuates itself, like bad code. You can regulate out the wazoo, but as long as you have a system where great wealth is concentrated, you are going to get wealthy people using their money to influence deregulation for greater profit.

If there were a system of rewards that were not wholly dependent on expanding profits, we might see this behavior begin to disappear. What could that system be called? Hmm, starts with an "S"...

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
13. Capitalism is not a social model nor is it a form of government. The nations that allow capitalism
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:45 PM
Feb 2013

and are prosperous are, for the most part, Socialist.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
15. Capitalism and democracy are two different things
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:49 PM
Feb 2013

Capitalism is a way to organize the economy.

Democracy is a type of government.

Each has several different subspecies. Some combinations work better than others.

But some types of capitalism would be compatible with non-democratic governments, such as a dictatorship or monarchy.

Some types of democracy would be compatible with socialism, although nothing has lasted very long so far.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
16. Other
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:51 PM
Feb 2013

It's been a while since we were a capitalist society...we are a monopoly driven economy with central planning....by corporations.

Mr. Blue Sky

(33 posts)
17. Humans are corrupt..every system has corruption
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 07:02 PM
Feb 2013

because systems are designed to control human behavior. The selfish instinct of some humans will always find a way to circumvent and take advantage of those who submit to behave according to the rules.... regardless of the system.

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