I think..anyway.

Krieger guy knows what he's talking about, KoKo! Thank you.

Here's what was on the Krugman last summer:

Who s Very Important?

Government of the .01-percent, by the .01-percent and for the .01-percent.

I'd say most evil, a lot that profit from war and poverty.

Few and None of the BIG WIG's on Wall Street have been brought to Justice...not even Indicted...fgs.

So...still I liked that he's coming out about this.

Support it or support liberalism. Can't do both.

"As I have repeatedly stated, the oligarchs are using the current period in between financial panics to put in place the surveillance grid they plan to use on the population once the SHTF. It is of extreme importance that the masses stay apathetic and obedient in the process."

the Geeks will take them down. Anonymous is the logical conclusion.

This story has everything except legs:

Citing week-old Supreme Court precedent, the President Barack Obama administration told a federal judge Wednesday that it should quash a federal lawsuit accusing the government of secretly siphoning Americans’ electronic communications to the National Security Agency without warrants.

The San Francisco federal court legal filing was in response to U.S. District Judge Jeffrey White’s written question (.pdf) to the government asking what to make of the high court’s Feb. 26 decision halting a legal challenge to a once-secret warrantless surveillance project that gobbles up Americans’ electronic communications — a program that Congress eventually legalized in 2008 and again in 2012.

In that case, known as Clapper, the justices ruled 5-4 that the American Civil Liberties Union, journalists and human-rights groups that sued to nullify the FISA Amendments Act had no legal standing to sue. The justices ruled (.pdf) the plaintiffs submitted no evidence they were being targeted by that law.

The FISA Amendments Act authorizes the government to electronically eavesdrop on Americans’ phone calls and e-mails without a probable-cause warrant so long as one of the parties to the communication is outside the United States. The communications may be intercepted “to acquire foreign intelligence information.”

The filing the government submitted Wednesday concerns a lawsuit brought by the Electronic Frontier Foundation that accuses the government of vacuuming up all of Americans’ electronic communications with the assistance of the nation’s telecoms, in violation of the Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable searches. The EFF claims the dragnet surveillance program commenced under the George W. Bush administration following 9/11...

/... http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/terminate-spy-challenge/

.... while I don't disagree with his basic assertion - he's like a storm trooper. Not as bad as Hitler himself, but carrying out his orders so PRETTY DAMN CLOSE.

I think he's trying to get the word out about why he left Wall Street because he couldn't deal with it anymore.

I'm not sure of your post about your reaction as to why you went kind of OTT about him.

He reformed. I don't think Storm Troopers under Hitler did that excep a few who tried to take Hitler out and maybe this guy is one of those types.

... .he is making excuses for what Wall Street does. I'm having none of that, whether he is still doing it or not.

Here we see it again, with a member of the 1% placing himself into the ranks of the common man. His stocks, he claims, are just a different kind of food stamp. I suppose his Central Park condo is just like sleeping under a bridge, and his Fererri is just a glorified city bus. The 1% at the top are just like the 1% on the bottom.

He wants us to stop "Fighting among ourselves" and embrace our 1% brothers.

He's right about one thing. The game is rigged and most of us are screwed, including people like him. But that doesn't make him a victim, it makes him a collaborator.

I agree with the assessment that the 0.01% are the problem. The 99.99% are just being set up to be victims like everyone else.

If there are 300 million Americans; there are 3 million 1%ers. That's a lot of people and they aren't all pulling the strings. I think that it's a mistake to demonize all of them. I expect a lot of them are 2 paychecks away from homelessness.

If it weren't for the fact that the material comes from a site with liberty in the name (which I always associate with the tea party) I would give him even more points.

However, I'm not concerned about some secret 'spy on Americans network' at all. Taxes need to be raised, that's the solution. The government spying on me is the least of my concerns.

I don't agree too much with anyone who isn't advocating for taxing the shit out of the parasites. If he suggested that; I missed it.

The GOP is not the party of the rich. BOTH parties are the party of the rich. Both are the party of the top 10%. So I agree, you cannot label any person, regardless of their wealth or lack, as a friend or foe. The "enemy" is the system that has created and perpetrated this wealth and power inequality.

But to a great extent that's really just crap. It's like a medieval Duke telling a peasant that he too feels oppressed by this damn feudal system. Don't blame him, blame the king. We saw the same nonsense posted here when Obama passed his tax cuts for the rich.

Ultimately it comes down to this: you can be rich and still call yourself anything you like, but if you are in that top 10% bracket you are a beneficiary of the system. In the us versus them struggle, you are not one of us, you are one of them. Don't tell me you hate the rich -- you ARE the rich.

The following is a true story that should help demonstrate the difference as well as provide some explanation for why I probabkly sound a little grumpy:

Last night my twenty-two year old daughter fell in our bathroom. She came down hard, hitting the toilet in the side of her ribs. She has bruises running all the way down one side of her body, from her ribs to her ankles, and she's lucky she didn't break any ribs. My baby was in there crying for a half-hour, and today she can hardly walk. We cannot go to the doctor because we are poor. She fell because the FLOOR gave way when she was getting out of the shower. The fucking floor gave way! And you know what? I might have a bathroom floor that's falling in, and I might not be able to afford a doctor for my daughter, but compared to many on here I am doing great. That's how bad it has gotten for my brothers and sisters and comrades on the bottom.

Then I come on here and read an essay from some Grey Poupon limousine liberal about how his stocks and bonds are just another kind of food stamp. We're all in this together, he says. But that's crap. We are not in anything together. I'm down here, he's up there. I am living it, he is imagining it and saying what a pity.

There are over 200,000 members registered on this website. Statistically that means there are THOUSANDS of millionaires reading and posting here, and all saying the same thing this guy is. If every one of these wealthy members here kicked just five bucks a month to Wishadoo -- just five freaking bucks a month -- we could maybe eliminate some of the catastrophes that our own members here are facing. I am not saying that because I have a wish in myself -- I do not -- I am saying it because when I get going again that's what I am going to do.

I will help my brothers and sisters.

And if you are one of the wealthy people reading this and you want to know how you can REALLY join us that's all you need to do. You don't have to give up anything but a Starbucks a month. Don't give the money to the party or some suit and tie organization, give to help a poor Democrat get back on their feet. Do that and we really will be on the same team, and I will gladly call you my comrade.

http://www.wishadoo.org/

I'm not wealthy. I'm not in a very good position to help people myself right now (although I have listed on Wishadoo free eggs and pecans). I'm trying to get on my feet as well.

My point is this; even though the 1%ers (or even 10%ers) aren't suffering as much as the people at the bottom; they may not be as well off as you think they are.

There are people going from high wage positions to nothing; losing their houses etc. We aren't hearing much about it because nobody is bragging about it. There are all kinds of empty store fronts and commercial property advertised for sale or lease and very little new construction going on. People are dipping into their retirement (or wiping them out) just to make ends meet. The fact that we aren't all suffering equally doesn't mean we aren't all going through each day with a certain level of uncertainty.

Unfortunately, the higher a person's income - in this day and age - just means that they can drive a nicer car (if they borrow the money) live in a nicer house (if they borrow the money) and put on a fancier facade, but at the end of the day everyone is just wage slaves.

A couple of years ago attorneys were coming out of retirement to apply for openings at the highway department. I called an engineering firm about an opening and the gentleman on the phone said they received over 40 resumes. I think these are tough times for doctors and pilots and other professions that you wouldn't think would have money problems. I also think that they aren't going to brag about it.

I understand that you're cranky because you've suffered some huge setbacks, and I agree that the folks who can - should lend a helping hand (and it seems like quite a few people do), but I think you have an exaggerated view of what the 1% have versus what the .01% have.

I think the .99% at the top are being suckered in to take a whipping on the next stock market crash. I think that's the point: not only are the 1% not safe; they're gonna be the next ones to take the fall.

Last edited Sat Mar 9, 2013, 09:17 AM - Edit history (1)

This interaction between you and Demo_Chris really hits hard, because it's something I struggle with every day in the sense that I am not someone who hates the wealthy and do see some 1'ers who want to change the system so that it's more equitable, but I don't see a similar level of suffering at all between those in higher tax brackets versus the rest of us.

I think I understand what you're saying about how even many of the wealthy are having more financial uncertainty than they previously had and they are also cogs in the economic slavery society we have.

First, let me say that I don't want ANYONE to suffer and struggle; I want our systems to change such that suffering and struggling are ameliorated and more people are thriving.

However, the level of poverty all around right now is more extreme than most people realize.

It's to the point that FOOD is an issue for more people than ever. It's no longer a matter of where to shop (people having to give up Whole Foods or other higher-end grocery store for a Food Lion or such), but being able to shop for food AT ALL. And the food banks in many communities simply cannot keep up with the growing need; families come first, so single individuals or couples of all ages are struggling in a brutal way.

My perspective has shifted in the last few years to the point that, if you have something of value that you can sell, you are lucky. Many people have sold everything they have to keep the utilities going and buy food, and now there is nothing...nothing but the kindness of strangers since the safety net just can't accommodate the needs.



If someone still has a savings to dip into, they are one of the fortunate ones.

If someone has a nice car that could be sold or traded in for one with better gas mileage or to get cash, they are one of the fortunate ones.

If someone has "stuff" that can be sold to generate cash flow, they are one of the fortunate ones.

When you truly have nothing...no assets at all, through no fault of your own...that is a level of struggle most who have had higher incomes just can't comprehend.

It's not fair and it's stressful for all concerned no matter their level of struggle, but I do see this from a different perspective, one more similar to that of Demo_Chris.

BTW, thank you again for being one of the few to offer something at Wishadoo! It is GREATLY appreciated!

I know people are struggling. I have donated eggs to the local food pantry and I gave eggs to the local occupy movement before they disbanded. I have 8 pecan trees and have gathered a bunch of them up. Nobody has responded to my offer on Wishadoo.

Unfortunately, I have 3 autistic children and my youngest daughter is severely autistic, non-verbal and self-injurious. So although I have resources beyond my personal needs; they are not financial resources and I am somewhat limited in my mobility because we have struggled to keep my daughter in school. I have stayed home with her since before Christmas (she finally returned a week or so ago). She turned 18 in December so we can finally afford some medical analysis and intervention, but it is still a struggle. Watching her full time is like working two shifts and being on call. At one point in my life I had a day job, an evening job, was an officer in the national guard and a landlord; I yearn to have the free time that I enjoyed then.

However, if someone nearby is in need of food and brings it to your attention; I will be glad to provide them with eggs, chickens or pecans if I'm contacted either through PM or Wishadoo. I also grow quite a few cucumbers and tomatoes during the growing season. Of course I'm hoping to go to work this spring, but even when I'm working I try to grow excess food. My autistic son maintains the chickens. Since I have been unable to supervise him as closely while I've been watching my daughter our egg operation is not as productive as it could be, but if I had a regular recipient; we could get the operation back to 3 dozen eggs (or so) per day. Sadly, I had been giving a lot of eggs to a friend of my sons - and the young man was shot dead here in town at his place of employment.

I have a bunch of extra roosters running around; I wish I could find someone willing to slaughter and consume them. If someone nearby were interested in helping with something like that; I have a 300 egg incubator that is designed to hatch out 100 eggs a week - some continuous arrangement might be made. It is just sitting here at a time when I could be hatching eggs. I'd be glad to give away some laying hens as well.

As I said; I'd like to be able to do more to help people; especially if it means making people more self-sufficient, but I'm a bit tied up myself.

If you think of something that I can do to help someone within those parameters; let me know.

The people bringing in a six-figure income chooses to lease the $80,000 Benz, the $40K earner drives a 15 year old shit box because they have to. The six-figure earner chooses to pay $70K p/yr for little Johnny's vacation at Pepperdine, her counterpart sends her kid to the loan application processing institute because he has to.

Those "professionals" enable the system to continue and with few exceptions they know it, they just don't give a shit until the problems they helped create bite their own asses. Is the doctor that pays his staff $9 p/hr with no benefits any better than Wal-mart?

My doctor is a wage slave. He works for a clinic and though he makes good money; I imagine he doesn't choose the wages and salaries of his staff.

The world has changed. Just because someone makes good money and enjoys 'the material world' more than the working poor; doesn't mean they have any more influence on the world than the poorest among us. Not all doctors have their own practice. The same with a lot of professions; they tow the line or pay the price. Paying the price for not towing the line could mean homelessness. Additionally, there is student loan debt. Even if a doctor does have his own practice and is making a lot of money; he may not be able to afford to pay more because of startup expenses and student loans.

I think part of 'their plan' (the .01%) is to pit one group against the other; where we are now - some people believe that the top 1% are in on the scheme; I think most of them have very little influence on things. They're pawns; just like like law enforcement (against the occupy movement) and the people employed in debt collection. It isn't that they're necessarily bad people, they're just trying to put food on their family.

I think if we actually had a list of the 1%ers by salary, occupation and assets; we'd all be surprised at the list. When they said during the debates that $250,000 annual income is the top 2 or 3 percent that means the top 1% could be a married couple where one person is judge and the other is an educator, or a professor and an accountant, or a school district superintendent and a medical doctor, two attorneys working for a law firm etc.

The fact that someone has a good education and an adequate income; doesn't mean that they're in on a conspiracy to starve out the rest of us. Most of them are probably working their asses off; stressed out about the decisions that they have to make on a daily basis to keep their head above water.

As I said before; there are a lot of them. Each has their own crosses to bear. Some 1%ers may be part of the problem; I still think we have more of a problem with the 47% that voted for Romney.

There is a class war. The rich have waged it forever, but this latest push began in the 70s, took hold in the 80s and the endgame was finished under and with the help of Clinton in the 90s.

Your doctor made a choice (likely a series of choices) to be a wage slave. Every member of the gatekeeper class made the choice, and now that the war they chose to engage in is hurting them, they want sympathy and to be accepted by the rest of us because it isn't going the way they thought it would. Well, that's the price the gatekeepers pay. They die defending the gates so that their masters have time to get away.

I can assure you that your list of 1%ers by salary would not surprise me in the least. Some of them are the knowledgeable and weak, but the overwhelming majority are the useless exploiters, those that have reaped great rewards by helping the bigger parasites to steal from those below them. There is no conspiracy, you're the only one that has brought up the new DU bugaboo, It is simply a matter of choice. We've all made them and we all must live with them.

In the end, nothing you have written addresses the issue raised, that being that some of us have choices and others have few or none. Let's be honest enough to avoid trying to draw a false equivalency between the two,

The acknowledgement that the .01% are the problem came out early on in the occupy movement; if that is the 'new DU bugaboo' of which you speak, I am merely agreeing with it. It did not originate with me. Someone also posted a video (again, not me) a few days ago demonstrating just how disproportionate a share the .01% have. If you mean something else by the phrase 'the new DU bugaboo; I don't know what you mean.

I acknowledge some people have more choices than others. I disagree that there is a 'gatekeeper' class of 1%ers than deserve our scorn.

There are a lot of people who had the choice to go to school during the Clinton administration, and chose not to. I went despite being in my mid-30's and having 4 kids. I earned an engineering degree and because I was making decent money; my wife was able to go to law school and graduated in 2006 with a JD.

We aren't among the 1%, but I can see how young people who graduated when I did ('99) could have been sucked into the game and could easily lose it all, by simply living life and getting by.

There isn't a conspiracy. There are a lot of conspiracies. It wasn't a single person who deregulated the banking industry. It wasn't one individual that weakened monopoly laws that prevented:
The telecommunications giants,
The pharmaceutical giants
The energy giants
and the various other empires that prevent young professionals from successfully competing as a small business in the marketplace. It wasn't a single individual who changed the tax codes to favor the wealthy. Since it wasn't a single individual; it was a conspiracy.

It isn't some kind of secret conspiracy that the 30,000 or so people that are in the top .01% are involved in; it's different agendas that the various interests gather in the corridors of power to work out. This 'gatekeeper class' that you have defined comes nowhere near these corridors of power.

Sure, there are despicable parasites and yeah, some people don't have as many choices as others, but the biggest part of the catastrophe that we are in now happened because a lot of people were invested in the housing market (a lot of them without even knowing they were) and trillions of dollars of perceived real estate value disappeared literally overnight.

The fact that some people are suffering less because they were fortunate enough to have choices and then made good choices; is not enough to earn my scorn. A lot of people are given more choices because they are more attractive than others; some are given more choices because they are taller, thinner or speak more eloquently; some people just get an easy ride because they look intelligent; the reasons that people have more choices can be simply the luck of the draw.

A lot of people are more fortunate than I am; that doesn't make me angry at them and it doesn't make me suspect them of being involved in some evil plot to make me unhappy. Sure there's class warfare, but I don't agree with your assessment of the enemy.

So eloquently said, as always.

I, too, am sorry for the struggle you and your family are enduring. I hope your daughter is feeling much better today.

Thanks KoKo!

the Pauls, père et fils. I got a little whiff of Libertarianism reading the cited blog post, and sure enough...