can't trust 'em.

I have a Chihuahua and she thinks she is a pit bull. If she was, she would definitely be a mean one. She does not like strangers and goes completely bananas whenever some knocks at the door. I did not raise her that way or train her to be aggressive.

They just seem to bark a lot. I'm a big dog person myself. I find them much calmer.

and they have been upheld. I tend to agree with them though I would prefer what I advocate for guns, which is a system of registration, licensing, and bans of guns that can shoot more than 6 bullets without being reloaded.

The responsible parties are the owners. No breed of dog is inherently dangerous. Pits can be wonderful family dogs. It's a question of how they are bred and raised.

Guns are inanimate objects. Guns have no purpose other than killing. Dogs have many purposes and are family members.

...should be legal to own. How in the world does that make any sense? Look, pit bulls were bred for fighting. Fighting dogs are no longer needed. Isn't it time to let this dangerous breed of dog go?

Like all terriers, including Westies and Scotties. They are American Staffordshire terriers, which were originally developed as a breed between a fox terrier and a bull dog. http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_staffordshire_terrier/history.cfm

Terriers were bred in England as smallish dogs with a predatory drive that farmers of modest means could use to keep down populations of rats, badgers, and other vermin that infested their farms. The fact terriers were smaller meant they were cheaper to feed. Anyone who owns ANY kind of terrier needs to be prepared for a very active dog. Because of the influence of the bulldog in the American Staffordshire, or pit, they are less high strung than many terriers.

Pits have indeed been popular among people who raise dogs for fighting because of their powerful jaws. Dog fighting is already illegal and can't be prosecuted strongly enough to suit me. Many of Michael Vick's dogs have been rehabilitated and some even serve as therapy dogs now. Others of his dogs were deemed too aggressive and put down.

Such bans are the result of ignorance. I can't tell you all the friendly pits I see at the dog park all the time.

I have a mix who people commonly mistake for a pit. She could have some pit in her, but I couldn't say for sure because she's a rescue dog. I was told she is a boxer/hound mix. She's the gentlest dog ever, a wimp really. She's very friendly with the neighbor cat and loves kids. If you're a squirrel or a rabbit though, watch out. That's to be expected because dogs have natural prey instincts. They also naturally look to human beings for direction. The people who owned those dogs are negligent, perhaps more than negligent. Obviously the dog has to be put down, but that doesn't make all dogs that look similar dangerous.

Sure, many people handle large dogs responsibly, but the problem is the level of danger posed by such a powerful dog. Just one irresponsible owner is all it takes for there to be a dog attack; surely, if banning all dogs over 60 pounds will save just one life, we should do so.

it hardly surprises me that mass murder of the one species that has allowed human kind to develop agriculture and civilization would seem like an appropriate justification to defend unfettered profits from the machinery of death. Plus then we could just get rid of herding dogs and keep livestock totally drugged up and immobile to make sure the food is really unhealthy, human beings become increasingly obese, and mega corporations make even more profits while small ranchers go extinct.



http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977229515

The same thing could be said about you-know-whats.

the one species that has allowed human kind to develop agriculture and civilization
Cows? Horses?

appropriate justification to defend unfettered profits from the machinery of death.
Why do you continue to defend large-dog proliferation? The average person, particularly one living in the suburbs or an urban area, has no need for a dog larger than 60 pounds. What, are they suddenly going to dump the house and adopt a hunter-gatherer lifestyle where a large dog is a necessary companion? Large dogs pose a risk that reasonably-sized dogs do not, and since very few people can demonstrate an actual need for large dogs, ownership of large dogs should be restricted to this small group of people.

Plus then we could just get rid of herding dogs
Special licensing for herding dogs.

assault riffles haven't existed very long. Rhetorical fail. I get that killing living creatures is a source of great amusement for some, but I'll leave you alone to consider your macabre fantasies. Enjoy.

All dogs are licensed. Another fail.

What about recent dog breeds, like German Shepherds, which were first bred in 1899 (about the same time of the invention of the first self-powered machinegun)? What about even more recent large dog breeds?

All dogs are licensed. Another fail.
But the licenses are issued far too easily. Only people who have a legitimate need for a herding dog should be allowed to obtain a license for a large herding dog.

Last edited Thu Mar 7, 2013, 01:57 PM - Edit history (1)

Human civilization. Not the mere passage of time. Assault rifles were not integral to the development of human civilization. That is a fact. Rapid-fire guns were fire developed in the late-19th century, while guns in general only came into military use in the 15th century. Dog skeletons have been found with the earliest sedentary human societies. We would never have been able to cultivate agriculture and live stock without dogs. Therefore there would have been no human civilization without them.

FYI, most pits weigh less than 60 and closer to about, I would guess, 45 lbs.
One of the ferocious large beasts that strike you with such terror is depicted here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2471433

Charlie is a standard poodle/old English sheepdog, or sheepadoodle. Poodles were originally bred for hunting... sheepdogs, for herding. Charlie is a pet therapy dog who 'works' with me at the state psychiatric hospital. He's also my pet, and I've had him since he was about 10 months old (he's now almost 3 years old). He's never even barked at a person or another dog. I've never heard him growl. Heck, when patients on my unit are yelling and screaming and doing god knows what, Charlie can calm them down better and faster than anything else.

And why do I have to 'prove' my need for a 'large' dog? Most large dogs make great house dogs... they aren't as hyper as small dogs. Heck, the very best house dogs to own are retired greyhounds. I swear they don't even move when they're inside a house.

Enjoy the pics of my dog, even though you don't think I should own him just because he's 'large'.

Dogs have the ability to understand feelings and emotions. I have a female pet dog, she is Sheepadoodle. We got her when she was 3 months old. Today, she is 4 years, and she understands each and every word and action we do. I don't get it how she understands our words even we have not trained her for them.

Please tell me you forgot a sarcasm tag.
Newfies, St Bernards and Goldens all weigh over 60#.

between assault rifles and dogs. It's pure BS.

He weighs 125 lb.

I have never heard him even growl at a human being.







Think I should have him put down because of his size?

He happens to be sleeping with his head on my slippered foot right now.

you can see the kindness in his eyes.
I agree large dogs tend to be more mellow. Unfortunately, I had a large dog that got ill and I could not lift her to get her in my car to take to the vet, I had to run around the neighborhood until I could find someone to help me. By then it was too late. So it is only get a dog I can pick up. Right now my dog is 50 lb, but the next one will have to be smaller yet.

I'm sure my girl Lola would love him.

Gus is gorgeous!

Labs, sheepdogs, etc. Pit bulls I'm not so sure about. You don't often hear of an Old English Sheepdog killing or mauling a child.

Bake

Looks like some Rhodesian ridgeback to me.

I'd need to get a DNA test to know for sure.

and if you weren't scared of that dog, you should've been!
I tried my best to socialize her, but she remained a danger to small children till her dying day.
they're a mix of Border Collie and Dingo, the collie part of her made her smarter than any dog I've ever known, the Dingo part made her a bit nutty at times...

still loved that girl to death.
Best.Dog.Ever.

Super friendly. She has a knack for making everyone happy. The idea of banning her because she weighs 65 lbs is nuts.

I've known several pittbulls and Dobies and two German Shepherd attack dogs.

You can't ban any of them. 99.9999999 percent are just fucking fine.

Just don't touch their food or their junk.

When I was five I got bit by a Shepherd my grandmother owned because I was unsupervised and trying to eat his dog food.

Badger bit the loving fuck out of me and I can still see the scar on my hand. Really. Right now.

That was 58 years ago. Badger was a working dog and I had NO business in that part of the yard.

And no goddamned business near his food.

The rest of the time he was a sweetheart. I could pretty much do anything I wanted with him.

I wish I could bring the big lug back to life. He was a heroic dog. Majestic.

should allow his food to be touched. Food aggression is a very dangerous sign.

Not a pet. I've got a Shepard and he's fine, except he gets mouthy when he's near his food, and yes, I know exactily why he gets that way, and he's not treated poorly.

she is the gentlest and most affectionate dog I have ever had, Her owners just never trained her to not bite. It took less than a day to train that out of her. But she also has a soft mouth and does not bite down on any thing, so her biting was ore like her taking your hand in her mouth to walk you somewhere. Yet she spent over 6 years in a no kill shelter listed as unadoptable due to her owner's complaint when they turned her in.

One of the first thing I teach dogs is that I can take it's food. With this dog it was harder to teach her that she can be touched anywhere, but after 3 months she accepted it. I take my dogs around small children, they have to be good with being abused and not act out. What I have not been able to train out of this dog is to stop chasing a squirrel on command, she was bred to hunt rodents, so she is never off the leash unless in a fenced in yard.
So bad owners not bad dogs.

Among the AKC-recognized "pure breeds" there's about twelve that all very closely resemble the American pit bull terrier, and each other. That's without considering all the uncountable mixes, mutts, and mongrels out there with ancestry from the APBT, or its similar breeds.

So. How many dogs do you think need to be destroyed, and what criteria should be used for this program you envision?

I say go after Rottweiler and Doberman (and maybe Chihuahuas).

I have known several loving, friendly pit bulls and pit bull mix dogs. Their owners don't fight them or train them to be aggressive, and as a result they had intelligent and loyal dogs.

Rottys and Dobies - never met one that didn't make me nervous. Not saying they aren't out there, but I haven't found any that I liked. And Chihuahuas: They may not be life threatening, but most every one of them was an annoying snapping yapper.

Biggest Dobie I've ever seen. He's the gentlest dog on the planet. My SIL was terrified of dogs and wanted the dog to be put outside when she came to visit us. We refused - hey, he's part of our family!! She came in, sat down very nervously and Ripper (yeah, that's his name) went and put his head on her lap. After getting over the initial scare, she started patting him.

A few months later, she got a dog of her own.

I've had quite a few Dobes during my life. Never had a problem with any of them. A mate of mine was a Rotty guy. All his dogs were lovely.

Most that I've met are just like yours, very sweet.

They are unbelievably smart, and can be difficult to train. However, out of the 10's of dogs my father and uncles and other family members have owned over the years, every single one of the "best" dogs with a Doberman -- and this is among a group of people who mostly used their dogs for work and had big dogs (guard dog, duck hunting, etc.) I've had pound puppies, doberman's, German Shepard's, Labradors, Golden Retrievers, and Chow / pound puppy mixes.

I will say that the one dog out of the dozens over the years in my family which was actually vicious -- was a doberman.

A gun can't.

cats are not a food group. It took a bit of convincing, but she's great pals with them now. She even greets the neighbor's guinea pig when she enters their house. You know how dogs greet everyone when they enter a place. Well, she doesn't forget the guinea pig. It's super sweet.

Here are some more dogs you can ban

Pitbull pressure bite was 235 lbs
German Shepherd bite was 238-750 lbs
Alapha blue blood Bulldog bite was 305 lbs
Wild Dogs bite force was 317 lbs
Rottweiler bite force was 328-350 lbs
Wolf bite force was 406-1800 lbs
tosa inu was 556 lbs
Turkish Kangal was -350-714 lbs
dutch shepherd 235 lbs
karelian bear dog 245 lbs

One wing is for court holds....after a dog bites someone they are held there until a decision is made whether or not to euthanize. Its mostly pit bulls.

We recently had a boy in our community killed by a pit bull....its not the first time either.

I don't blame the animal....but the vast majority of them are trained to be aggressive.

many of whom were rehabilitated and some are even therapy dogs now. I understand that local shelters don't have resources to rehabilitate dogs. But the Vick case does show it's about the owner rather than the dog.


I see super sweet pits at the dog park every time I go.

The ones I deal with are near perfect and ready for adoption. For every three dogs that enter the shelter, one is adopted. The other two don't even make the 'showroom floor' where I work. Most of the dogs euthanized are pits. And the dogs least likely to be neutered are pits. Bottom line, if there were no pit bulls, the shelter would have the resources to be 'no kill' in the dog department. I don't blame the animal itself....but it would be better for both humans and pits if they were banned in our city.

thanks to the gangster element, pit bulls are not the breed they were 40 years ago. Due to demand, they are nothing but bred killers. Any good traits that pit bulls had at one time have been bred out of them.

(and any dog that might loosely fit the description) then they move onto another dog to make into a killer, do we ban that too? German Shepards? Rots, bulldogs, any dog that kill banned?

Certainly not for all of them. Not by a long shot. I encounter lots of friendly pits.

until they decide to snap and rip your throat out. The breed is geared for only one thing now- killing.

That's a shit-stirring record for you on the topic.

"Assualt dog"...once again, I'll refrain from suggesting what you don't know shit about.

Shit is funny when thousands die needlessly. Because we can play silly libertarian logic games with it, hardy har har.

My Irish grandmother always said: you can tell if somebody's no good by what makes them laugh.

What we have is the outline of a story. And the certainty that a tragedy occurred. But, we really don't know why it occurred. It really is tragic this woman owned a pair of dogs that she could not handle. In any case I hope there is some follow up. And I think that this should be investigated further. And I would say that no matter what the breed is, but I am saying that especially in the cases of dogs that are usually non aggressive an investigation should occur.

I think bans are a horrid idea, btw. People will just go out and get another breed that just doesn't look as scary.

[quote][/quote]

j/k

Akitas would be on the list of substitute breeds, as would Rotties, Dobies, German Shepherds,...

I think really the best solution would be to ban certain people from having pit bulls. Anyone convicted of a violent crime and people with anti social behavior.

Yeah, right.



The problem is, much of your sarcastic post makes a lot of sense. A toy poodle or a chihuahua can't do nearly the damage that some of the larger breeds can do. And some of these larger dogs have been bred for aggressive traits.

and less aggressive than smaller dogs.

not Golden Retrievers.

please: http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/features/pit-bulls-safety?page=2

Responsible gun owners know that we need to do everything we can to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, paranoid conspiracy mongers and anyone proven to be irresponsible- advocates for the NRA claim this sort of responsible regulation is actually part of a conspiracy to destroy America and bring about the enslavement of the white race (whatever that is).
And the NRA uses ted nugent (self-described pedophile, draft dodger and serial poacher) to spread and articulate thier vision of the 2nd amendment. Still NRA advocates cant understand why most Americans dont trust them or agree with them.
Maybe if some NRA advocate were to equivocate guns with dogs in a dishonest way it'll change some minds...maybe not.
And NRA advocates can't understand why Americans don't trust them...

Some legal gun owners don't keep their guns safely locked away from children, for example.

"Legal" isn't a synonym for "responsible."

The dog fighters are the ones destroying a certain breed of dog. They destroy dogs physically and mentally, and over breed them (poorly) and the ones that don't die end up dumped in shelters.

The scum of the Earth fight dogs, and the dogs they destroy are Pit Bulls. Other scum of the Earth commit other crimes and they seem to like Pit Bulls for their powerful look, they don't treat them well either. And bad breeders supply these scum-bags. Certainly lots of very good people own pit bull type dogs, and generally these dogs are fine, but if they end up with one that has been horribly bred and/or tortured, it might not be fine even with all the good care they can give.

It's all sickening and an abusive system, mainly to one type of canine.

I own a border collie, so my dog's literally not in that fight, but I've seen very well behaved pit bulls doing a great job at dog agility. Like all types of dog, an owner needs to know the tendencies associated with it. I know my dog wants to herd other animals and small kids. Some pit bulls have a tendency toward dog aggression. No breed/type doesn't have it's tendencies that need management. My Mom's Papillion, despite being treated like a Princess her whole life, is a biter (because she gets what she wants that way and isn't corrected or trained otherwise, like a number of small dogs), the fact is that if she were the size of a Pit Bull she would have killed someone already. When a larger dog happens to be human aggressive it just turns out a lot worse than when it's a tiny dog. Bad breeding or bad treatment can contribute to human aggressive dogs, no matter what breed.

End the dogfighting and the thug mistreatment of dogs and the market for poorly bred BYB pups should start drying up.

These dogs were never properly trained, and the owner should not have had them. This is a sad situation.
Your comparing the Pit Bulls to guns is a valid comparison. A well trained Pit, owned by a responsible owner, is a valued companion to be treasured. They are loyal, smart, and excellent companions. In the hands of an idiot, they can be vicious killers. Few of them end up this way, but there are enough that do, that people must be educated about responsible ownership. The same can be said about firearms. In the hands of responsible citizens, they are a source of many pleasurable afternoons spent at the range, a useful tool for harvesting game animals, a rewarding hobby, and as a last resort, a tool that can be used to protect your loved ones.
There probably is a means to test a persons responsibility and common sense. I don't know of any myself. I wish that I did. Such a test would be an ideal tool to decide who among us can be trusted with firearms, and Pit Bulls. If anyone does know of such a test, please let us know. In the meantime, banning specific breeds because of their appearance makes as much sense as banning certain firearms because of their appearance.

plant or animal should not be banned.
I'm not saying they cant be regulated, just not banned

Small pox isn't banned anyway. It's been combated with vaccines.

heard anyone ban those things yet?
just silly, banning plants and animals...what next the moon?

morons with dogs.

Belgium; Brazil; Denmark; Finland; France; Canada (Winnipeg, Quebec); the Netherlands; New Zealand; Norway; Poland; Puerto Rico; and Sweden in banning these breeds.

seems fairly circumspect in her endorsement of pits as pets:

Owning a pit bull should not be taken lightly. Some cities and towns have banned the breed. You also may face rising insurance rates or cancellation of your policy, difficulty renting, and the watchful eye of neighbors and passersby.

Notice she doesn't comment that the bans or insurance issues are wrong.

The second "expert" is a Sports Illustrated editor so... Lol.

Maybe you should share this hard hitting Web MD rebuttal with the heads of state of the 12 countries who have, wisely, banned the breed.

an American Staffordshire Terrier that was bred as a dog for farmers in the 19th century. Some of those countries ban veils and minarets too. That doesn't make them a thread to humanity. The whole idea of banning a breed is based on ignorance. The problem is owners, not the dogs. Michael Vick's dogs, as you know if you read the whole article, have been rehabilitated and one is even a therapy dog. You could ban all lions, tigers, bears, and wolves through extinction, and we are close to doing so in the case of many animals. That hardly makes us safer.

And anyone else who thinks euthanizing one breed of dogs is going to do anything about people that want to raise aggressive dogs or run dog fighting rings. The most aggressive dog I personally know is a German Shepard. She's a dear to everyone in the family but any stranger, including the UPS and Fed Ex people, are at risk.

If their citizens don't want to support "ignorant laws", they have political recourse.

That laws exist doesn't mean they make sense.

Grandfather current dog owners.

This is true, the owner is responsible for the dog's behavior. But... I know and love some pitbulls, they cn be great dogs, but the breed is a dangerous breed, pure and simple. Everyone has stories of Pitbulls who are just the greatest pets and totally docile and harmless, that's great, but the breed as a whole definitely has some problems, that is a fact.

Even a resonsible and caring dog owner can have a poblem pitbull. They are a difficult breed to read and sometimes it's too late when you notice you might have a dangerous dog.

I love how every month or so there is a sad story about someone attacked by a dog. The article will touch on how no one could have seen this coming. The comments section will be full of people defending the dog or breed or dog owners lambasting those few who suggest rules or ways of preventing these tragedies and nothing will be done. Then next month a similar story appears where some innocent child or elderly person is attacked and killed by a dog stereotyped as overly aggressive. And the cycle will repeat itself.

But, at the heart of it, there is a minor truth. Dogs are misused, just as guns are misused.

And i am not opposed, in principle, to the need to regulate both. I can definitely see a need for both not to be misused, and for potential owners to be required to register them and prove that they can be responsible and safe owners. I am definitely not at all opposed to mandatory waiting periods for both. And I do see a need for owners of each to prove that each are being kept safely and not being transferred to criminals. Oh.. and for penalties for those that abuse either.

its simple.
find the pittie
there are 25 dogs on the page. only one is a pitbull
id it
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

But it is like a marine biologist explaining shark attacks.
"We are not prey for them they usually move on after biting and discovering we are not natural prey"
Yea, but the problem is after biting and swimming off they take your torso with them.

Pit bulls just seem to go off the edge quicker faster meaner and deadlier when they have a bad owner as opposed to other breeds with bad owners.