either she hasn't sobered up from the night before or she has whoppers of hangovers...the lady needs AA or rehab or both...

I'm sure the Vatican will listen.

I'm sure God is properly chastised....

Whenever humans begin to leave a religion en masse, God always steps in to save the religion's profit margin by introducing a slightly newer dogma.

The obvious example is how God interceded in the Mormon Church, offering a timely change of rules so that Utah would qualify to become a state.

The Catholic Church, of course, has had to throw a number of highly successful rackets over the side--as God willed it, of course. For example, the practice of indulgences was so profitable to the Catholic Church that all of Europe languished in poverty for 400 years while it was practiced, perfected, and codified.

Then Martin Luther came along and what do you know? God gave the Pope a wink and said, "let's knock a point off the vig, eh?"

The practice wasn't ended, just sort of parked in the garage until God decides it's profitable to haul it out again.

So I'm not worried about a timely act of God arriving to change the game once there is no social, political, or legal escape from reality. God cares as much about money as a greedy sociopath cares about money--exactly as much.

But while not thinking, she uses a lot of words.

Now I understand what made her such a fan of Reagan -- stupidity.

If the Catholic Church were less centralized, it would not be the Catholic Church. It would be Protestant.

Honestly.

Other religions can be less centralized. Take Judaism, for instance. There's no central authority, and there are many brands: Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist, Orthodox, New Orthodox, Ultra-Orthodox, Sephardic, Chassidic. Anyone from any of these pathways will call themselves a Jew, and all adhere to certain basic tenets of the faith. (For instance, all would recite the "Sh'ma" in a service, or recite the Kaddish as a remembrance of a person's death). But they diverge greatly in their understanding of the religion, from very liberal and socially conscious to uber conservative and rulebound.

Catholics have these natural divisions, too. Why should they all have to take orders from a single central authority?

As you go from the bottom to the top on the below diagram, each of the rungs depends on direct orders and instructions from the rung above it. Without this heirarchy with direct orders from the pope on things like whether nuns and priests can marry, whether abortion is a sin, whether birth control is a sin, (and these are just SOME of the biggies) the denomination would cease to exist.

There is also the whole biblical thing that Jesus said Paul is the rock upon which I will build my church and Catholicism claims that the popes are in direct line from Paul's authority. That is a big deal to Catholics.

There are umpteen Christian denominations where one could get the same thing as Catholicism once you start to fiddle with all of that formula.

Jesus and Paul never met.

The Popes are said to descend from Peter, who is reckoned to be the first.

wait, wasn't that a chocolate bar?

history of the Church. In prior centuries, the Bishops were much more co-equal with the Pope, the Bishop of Rome; and the doctrine of Papal infallibility didn't exist until 1870.

The Church wouldn't collapse without the current power structure; it would return to something closer to its original form.

I suspect you just made a typo. I do that too.

unprogrammed Quakers do not ordain anyone. The power, to the extent there ever is any, resides in the local Meeting, all are equal there, and there is no voting and or majority rule. We take "placing no person above another" seriously and to the greatest degree one can.

1
a often capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the church universal
b often capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it
c capitalized : roman catholic
2
: comprehensive, universal; especially : broad in sympathies, tastes, or interests <a catholic taste in music>
— ca·thol·i·cal·ly adverb
— ca·thol·i·cize verb

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/catholic

The Catholic Church would claim to be the entire and authentic Christian Church. They claim that their Church was founded by St. Peter -- On this rock I build my church. Remember that.

Therefore, the Catholic Church claims to know the one true version of Christianity.

Either Peggy Noonan is misquoted or she did not express herself clearly or something. I can't believe she does not understand the meaning of catholic or the history of the Catholic Church. Really. Something is wrong here. She is a writer after all. She is supposed to know language.

which is not surprising because many of the conservatives of the Church would like to maintain the current (but historically unusual) centralization of administration, and so they try to convince people that this has always been so.

But without modern transportation and communication systems, it simply wasn't possible through most of Church history.

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/archbishop-john-quinn-calls-papal-reforms

Key reforms intended by the bishops at Vatican II (1962-1965), Quinn told a packed audience here, have not taken place. The result has been ineffective and even dysfunctional governance in the years since the council.

He said shared bishops’ decision-making with the pope is urgently needed. Such decision-making “is not the result of a juridical decree, not the result of the action of a council, and not the result of the decision of any pope.” Rather, it is rooted in the ordination of the bishop and the doctrine that he is a successor to the apostles of Jesus, Quinn explained.

He said shared episcopal decision-making was “the legacy of Vatican II.”

development in the 2000 year history of Christianity -- and so was the current centralization of the Catholic Church. Popes have always existed, but in centuries past they didn't have the centralized power structure that they do now, nor the claims to infallibility.

The doctrine of papal infallibility (which has only been exercised twice, when a pope proclaimed a doctrine "ex cathedra&quot was only proclaimed in 1870.

before the Protestant churches developed. That's why it wasn't so important. It was taken for granted.

that exists now. Think about transportation and communication -- even if a Pope, the Bishop of Rome, could have dreamed of that kind of power, it wouldn't have been possible during much of Church history. So individual Bishops of local regions had the power.

And some of the current Bishops are advocating that we return to a more de-centralized structure.

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/archbishop-john-quinn-calls-papal-reforms

STANFORD, Calif. -- With the world’s cardinals set to choose a new pope, Emeritus Archbishop of San Francisco John R. Quinn Saturday called for major church governance reforms, including changes in the papacy itself.

SNIP

“Today, if we want to deal seriously with the legacy of Vatican II and issues of reform we must have the courage to consider the deeper questions. This is not possible unless the paramount issue of the exercise of the papal office is addressed.”

Quinn called for major decentralization of Vatican and papal authority. He said this could be achieved through the creation of regional bishops’ conferences and synods of bishops with decision-making authority.

SNIP

He said shared bishops’ decision-making with the pope is urgently needed. Such decision-making “is not the result of a juridical decree, not the result of the action of a council, and not the result of the decision of any pope.” Rather, it is rooted in the ordination of the bishop and the doctrine that he is a successor to the apostles of Jesus, Quinn explained.

SNIP

well put

The doctrine of unbroken apostolic succession from Peter and Paul to the official line Popes was first committed to the page by Irenaeus of Lyons in the year 180. Bishops of Rome weren't calling themselves Pontifex Maximus, a title appropriated from Mithraism and the Emperors of Rome, until over two hundred years after that.

Noonan's anti-Papist view is well known to the world by the complete treatment it received (overly thorough chewing, some say) in her early book, What I saw at the Revelations. Some say she is just still jealous over the funny hat.

Neener style.

You'll keep the other voices in her head company.