As has been stated ad infinitum the issue is reserving the power of extralegal assassination of US citizens. Every one of these brain dead drone posts miss the mark by a country mile.

We have had snipers capable of doing what drones do for decades, except they are more effective and efficient.

Why haven't we had this conversation before?

Or did we?

I see it like this http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2472890

Many of us are concerned about the issue of extralegal execution of American citizens. Drones happen to be the current prefered method of this action, so they're emblematic. Proponents of this power tend to ignore the heart of the matter and focus on weapons for obvious reasons. Clear?

(Emphasis added)

Seems to me like we are talking about the same thing.

"Drones" are only the latest method. We need to have a discussion about the the "heart" (your term) of this matter, rather than focus on the method.

Did I interpret you correctly? If so, I agree completely. And that was the point of my OP.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your post. Usually when I see the argument framed around whether or not to ban drones I think who cares? With so many ways to get taken out, it's more about why it's done than how IMO. If we're in agreement, cheers!

Yes, it's more about why than how.

But, because the how has changed, we need to have a serious discussion about why we use these nasty things in the first place. And make sure they aren't misused.

mideast shithole.

Your "question" isn't a question at all.

We are empire.

Efficiency is our number one method of committing war.

As it is ever was.

Drones are efficient, nothing more.

I'll give you points for trying to obscure the issue.

But you bring up an excellent point: efficiency in war.

Isn't that what we are working for?

War is unavoidable, unless one side is so efficient at it that no one else challenges them. At least, that is what we have been working for.

Is that the wrong strategy? Is there some other strategy that would work better? I'm asking seriously, here.

Except that we are using drones in countries we are not at war with, and that war has nothing to do with assassinating our own citizens.

national and international discussion about.

Most of our laws of war, both national and international, were based on nations and governments warring against each other. This is a different kind of "war". al Qaeda has declared war on us, but it is not a government nor a nation.

How should we respond?

THIS is what we should be discussing, not drones or cruise missiles or snipers or any other minor details. Those are just "tools".

In murder of 'Enemies of the State' or in war.

Which is what your OP is speaking to, ultimately.

WE are empire.

All of us.

The moment you REALLY want to stop benefiting from this empire, well, then, sacrifice yourself to a cure.

All this complaining is first world sniveling.

Get ready: The Chinese are working towards Empire, to inherit our First World Problems.

And then we get to inherit what the 'also rans' for the last 4000 years have known.

There is no way to stop the shift in Empire. It is the way of the world. It is Evolution.

All that's left is to cheer the spectacle. And give the finger to the powers that be.

And hold your loved ones close.

Humans are a failed experiment.

My cynicism knows no boundaries.

The difference between a sniper and a drone is that the sniper is in the situation and not hundreds of miles away through a video monitor.