Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 05:48 PM Mar 2013

What were THEY THINKING?

I just saw video on RT Report of San Onofre Nuke Plant and it looks like something Hurricane Sandy could have taken out! What about a Tsunami on West Coast (there were some alerts with some of the earthquakes in South America in past years.) The video showed it right on the Pacific with some people walking dogs. (Full Disclosure..I'm an East Coaster...but we have a few on our side of the USA that need to be worried about, too)

Who would have ever thought this is where a Nuke Plant should be located. I know they need to use water for cooling but to risk despoiling our oceans and all that live in them had to be a miscalculation or expediency of financial interests. We knew enough after Hiroshima to know how dangerous Nuclear Power could be.

Anyway....given our seas rising already due to the ice melt ...and more violent storms forcasted...how long is it before Nuke Plants located on our Oceans will meet the fate of Fukishima?

---------------------------



The San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (SONGS) is a nuclear power plant located on the Pacific coast of California, in the northwestern corner of San Diego County, south of San Clemente. The site is surrounded by the San Onofre State Park and sits next to Interstate 5. The landmark spherical containment buildings around the reactors are designed to prevent unexpected releases of radiation. The closest tectonic fault line is the Cristianitos fault, which is considered inactive or "dead".[5] The plant has been the site of many protests by anti-nuclear groups.

The facility is operated by Southern California Edison. Edison International, parent of SCE, holds 78.2% ownership in the plant; San Diego Gas & Electric Company, 20%; and the City of Riverside Utilities Department, 1.8%. The plant employs over 2,200 people.[6] The plant is located in Nuclear Regulatory Commission Region IV.

The plant's two reactors (Units 2 and 3) have been shut down since January 2012 due to premature wear found on tubes in steam generators, which apparently contributed to the accidental release of a small amount of radioactive steam.
2012 shutdown

Unit 2 shut in early January 2012 for refueling and replacement of the reactor vessel head.[15] Both reactors at San Onofre have been shut since January 2012 due to premature wear found on tubes in steam generators installed in 2010 and 2011. Plant officials have pledged not to restart the units until the cause of the tube leak and tube degradation are understood. Neither unit has yet been restarted.[15]

In March 2012, former nuclear power executive Arnold Gundersen of Fairewinds Associates prepared a report that argued that "design modifications in the newly installed steam generators, such as different alloy for the tubes, led to problems at the plant". According to Gundersen's report, the shutdown in 2012 was due to poor design of the replacement steam generators that included many design changes that were not reviewed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.[16]In April 2012, in a sign of mounting concern over the shutdown, NRC Chairman, Gregory Jaczko, toured the facility with Senator Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat, and U.S. Representative Darrell Issa, a Republican.[17]

In May 2012, two retired natural gas electrical generators were brought back online to help replace the lost power generation capacity. However, the Huntington Beach Power Station produces only 440MW of power.[18][19] Additionally the Encina Power Station has assisted in replacing the missing capacity, providing 965MW of power; coupled with new conservation measures, this has helped keep power available to San Diego and Riverside counties.[20]

As of July 2012, the cost related to the shutdown has reached $165 million, with $117 million of that being the purchasing of power from other sources to replace the output of the plant.[21] As a result, the Chairman of Edison International Ted Carver has stated that there is a possibility that reactor 3 may be scrapped as "It is not clear at this time whether Unit 3 will be able to restart without extensive additional repairs".[21] In August 2012, Southern California Edison announced plans to lay off one-third, or 730, of the plants employees; the company said that the downsizing of the plant staff was planned more than two years ago. Rochelle Becker, of the Alliance for Nuclear Responsibility, said that the layoffs show that the company is not being honest about their plans for the power plant.[6][22] Due to the shutdown, the NRC ended requirements to monitor non operating systems.[14]

In September 2012, Allison Macfarlane, the NRC Chairwoman, said that plant will be down for a prolonged period, and that the fuel from Unit 3 will be removed in September 2012, due to significant damage to the unit; Southern California Edison stated, through its spokeswoman, that it is planning to send a restarting plan for NRC approval in October 2012.[23] As of November 2012, the cost of the outage has gone over $300 million,[24] and discussion of restarting Unit 2 has been postponed;[25] in December of 2012, the last of the four old steam generators were transported to Clive, Utah for proper disposal.[26]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USA_California_location_map.svg

More at:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=San+Onofre+Nuclear+Plant+built+right+on+the+Ocean&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What were THEY THINKING? (Original Post) KoKo Mar 2013 OP
When I was in SD, it was always a bit creepy driving past it--even back all those years ago, we niyad Mar 2013 #1
Wonder if...all this Nuclear Stuff isn't going to "Hit the Fan" KoKo Mar 2013 #5
North of there, we are trying to get rid of our plant in El Diablo canyon. Cleita Mar 2013 #2
We've got at least Four coming on SE Coast...and this is in RW Haven... KoKo Mar 2013 #3
Cleita, are there enough activists, do you think, to be able KoKo Mar 2013 #6
We do have some really tough activists on this but even they are up against Cleita Mar 2013 #8
I'm NC and have Duke (horrible company) who bought out Progress Energy already has the KoKo Mar 2013 #11
They really steam roller over everything that people try and they have been getting away Cleita Mar 2013 #15
That's nothing, honey. Diablo Canyon "has its faults" as we like to say Hekate Mar 2013 #4
Yep, the sirens for a nuke melt down are on a hill behind my house. Cleita Mar 2013 #9
SONGS? RobertEarl Mar 2013 #7
I saw that about Nuke Plant in Florida. They are just gonna leave it KoKo Mar 2013 #12
They can't clean it up RobertEarl Mar 2013 #17
Oh it is worst than that nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #10
Well...if there's a tsunami I guess the "surfing site" will be revealed KoKo Mar 2013 #13
I know...hopefully it won't come to that nadinbrzezinski Mar 2013 #14
Nothing to worry about! bvar22 Mar 2013 #16
Another sad fact about these places is they are marine killers. Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #18
This is probably a stupid question....but, why is it not possible KoKo Mar 2013 #19
Why don't they stop the slaughter? RobertEarl Mar 2013 #20
"Images of Fukushima disaster will never end" Dr. Helen Caldicott KoKo Mar 2013 #21

niyad

(113,532 posts)
1. When I was in SD, it was always a bit creepy driving past it--even back all those years ago, we
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 05:56 PM
Mar 2013

knew there were massive problems. it never should have been built there--a true disaster waiting to happen.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
5. Wonder if...all this Nuclear Stuff isn't going to "Hit the Fan"
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 07:05 PM
Mar 2013

in the coming years in the USA. So far...we think we are immune from this...but think of the agricultural devastation if any one of our Coastal Plants went down and leaked.

What would that mean to the Population, Plant Life and all surroundings.

And the Nuke Plants are all up and down our Coastal Growing Areas...it would not be something to go "Down the Memory Hole" if that happened here.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
2. North of there, we are trying to get rid of our plant in El Diablo canyon.
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 05:57 PM
Mar 2013

It too is sitting on earthquake faults and is close enough to the ocean to be hit by a tsunami, yet PG & E still wants to operate it.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
3. We've got at least Four coming on SE Coast...and this is in RW Haven...
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 06:42 PM
Mar 2013

But, everyone loves it because it "produces JOBS." Until When? Jobs are important but when your kids die because of the job...what legacy do you leave?

"Daddy and Mommy did GOOD for US...but, my "Sisters & Brothers are dying of cancer!" (Future Post on Democratic Underground if it survives that long or it's Aftermath in the NEWS of DYSTOPIA)


KoKo

(84,711 posts)
6. Cleita, are there enough activists, do you think, to be able
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 08:45 PM
Mar 2013

to stop it? I know here in the SE that there are plans and the Governors and their minions all hawking that it brings jobs to communities hard hit by the Global Banking Implosion...but, it seems we are back to re-fighting battles over what we thought we'd solved with DOCUMENTATION WAY BACK!

Fukishima Disaster makes me think that NO ONE EVER LEARNS...even the Japanese who suffered so horribly after HIROSHIMA/WWII ...didn't seem to learn from it.

It makes me fear for human intelligence that we FORGET so SOON...even throwing out Scientific Evidence about Nuclear Radiation that has been so well documented all these years.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
8. We do have some really tough activists on this but even they are up against
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 09:01 PM
Mar 2013

the corporations Duke Energy and P. G. & E.. They did manage to stop the companies from doing seismic testing:

http://www.calitics.com/diary/14569/ocean-advocates-unite-to-stop-whalekilling-seismic-testing

The tests were ordered to prove that the facility was safe. Excuse me but it's only safe up to a 7.5 richter scale earthquake. With the 8 scales and higher we have been having lately because of global warming, an 8 like Fukushima is very possible. Also, the damage to the sea life isn't cool. They tried to claim the sea life would move out of the way while the tests were happening, but even if they did, where does that leave the shore animals who feed from the ocean?

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
11. I'm NC and have Duke (horrible company) who bought out Progress Energy already has the
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 09:18 PM
Mar 2013

and has plans on books and the politicians lined up to do their bidding for MORE NUKE.

The Fracking is here and competing with the Nukes for activists energy...and we don't have much troops who can deal with both given we had the Power Takeover by the ALEC/KOCH and RW Operatives who turned our state from Blue to Red in the last election.

Thought you were California...didn't realize Duke stretched all the way out there...but, maybe I was confused about where you are.

Anyway...it's incredible how fast they all moved to overpower the resistence

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
15. They really steam roller over everything that people try and they have been getting away
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 09:33 PM
Mar 2013

with it. Even if you tried to stop them the old fashioned way by bombing them or setting them on fire like back in the nineteenth century, you can't, because you are dealing with nukes and a load of a lot of toxic other things.

DEAR ALERTERS: I AM NOT SUGGESTING BOMBING OR BURNING ANYTHING. I AM JUST SAYING, METAPHORICALLY, THAT THERE IS NO WAY TO FIGHT THESE PEOPLE ON AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD.

Hekate

(90,779 posts)
4. That's nothing, honey. Diablo Canyon "has its faults" as we like to say
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 06:50 PM
Mar 2013

It's in San Luis Obispo County, right by the famous San Andreas fault and the less-famous Hosgri fault. Yay, us!

I'll be glad when we finally get rid of the nukes. As if.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
9. Yep, the sirens for a nuke melt down are on a hill behind my house.
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 09:03 PM
Mar 2013

I remember all the fights I had here on DU from the Nuke plants are the future crowd and so safe. I mean if you have to have sirens and the county distributes pills to you in case you are exposed to radiation, I'm sorry. That's not safe to begin with let alone a Fukushima disaster.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
7. SONGS?
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 08:48 PM
Mar 2013

San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station

It's finished. They cut some corners to make for more profit and they ruined it.

That is the chief problem with SONG type units, of which there are over 400 around the world, over 100 in the US, they are run for profits.

These days wind and solar are cutting into profits of Big Energy and it could be troublesome. Why? Where will they find the money it takes to safely close down such SONGs? They just closed one in Florida and Duke Power said it will take 40 years to clean it all up. 40 years? Most of us will be dead and buried. I guess the kids will figure a way to pay?

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
12. I saw that about Nuke Plant in Florida. They are just gonna leave it
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 09:22 PM
Mar 2013

...called it Mothballing it until the Nuke stuff dissipates in 25 or so years. They can't afford to CLEAN IT OUT!

So...take a Big Hurrcane and the whole thing starts to leak into the ocean and the plumes go across Florida and up the East Coast...because it was MOTHBALLED and not CLEANED UP?

It defies the imagination even to read this kind of stuff...

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
17. They can't clean it up
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 12:43 AM
Mar 2013

The waste that remains can not be handled for a few years, it is so hot. So it has to sit and cool off via circulating water. That means the plumbing has to keep working. Broken pipes fixed, leaks repaired, coolers kept from clogging.

If for some reason the power goes down and the fuel for generators can't be found, or workers abandon the place, the waste will melt down and blow sky high within days. A bad hurricane could cause that process to occur.

If all goes well and years from now they can handle the wastes, it will go in dry storage which requires high-tech containers that may or may not last 100 years. And then it will be up to our grandchildren to deal with.

Not to mention all the plant's radiated equipment and so forth that must also be cleaned up. Our grand kids ain't gonna be happy.

Here's one way to look at what we are doing... Had the Romans nuclear power, we'd be dealing with their nuclear waste today.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
10. Oh it is worst than that
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 09:05 PM
Mar 2013

The cove was filled in, killing a great surfing site...and...it is built on an actual active fault.

Yes, what could go wrong? Cough liquification cough

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
13. Well...if there's a tsunami I guess the "surfing site" will be revealed
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 09:24 PM
Mar 2013

but "BEWARE THE RADIATION" will be the sign posted there..."SURF AT YOUR OWN RISK!"

I worry that's what it will come to as absurd as what I posted sounds like.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
16. Nothing to worry about!
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 09:44 PM
Mar 2013

If anything happens, they can just "vent a little steam"!
These plants all have "Redundant back-Up Systems",
so they are perfectly safe.
Did I mention that "I know Science"?

Now run along, and don't worry your pretty little Luddite Head about contamination that can make that area uninhabitable for 10,000 years.
Leave all that complicated stuff up to Us Men who "Know Science".

 

Paul E Ester

(952 posts)
18. Another sad fact about these places is they are marine killers.
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 12:47 AM
Mar 2013
http://www.cacoastkeeper.org/document/Giant%20Fish%20Blenders.pdf

There are 17 coastal Californian power plants using once-through cooling systems. These plants can withdraw more than 14 billion gallons per day from the Pacific Ocean. Nearly 5 billion gallons of that flow is withdrawn by two nuclear plants: the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station near San Clemente and the Diablo Canyon plant near San Luis Obispo. (See Appendix, Table 5, for a full list of California plants and their intake flow rates.)

These power plants kill an astounding number of fish. The annual entrainment of larval fish at the Diablo Canyon plant at average flow is estimated to be over 1.5 billion individuals.

At the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station on the Southern California coast, 121 tons of midwater fish are entrained, causing a 34 to 70 percent decline in Pacific Ocean fish populations within about two miles (three kilometers).

Unit 3 of the San Onofre plant alone is estimated to entrain an average of over 3.1 billion individual aquatic organisms.

The Pittsburg and Contra Costa plants in the San Francisco Bay Delta impinge and entrain more than 300,000 endangered and threatened fish per year, including the Sacramento splittail, Chinook salmon and steelhead trout. The Contra Costa and Pittsburg power plants entrain and impinge threatened Delta smelt and endangered Longfin smelt.

In addition to the entrainment of young life stages, Californian coastal plants impinge and kill huge numbers of older fish on their filter screens. At average flow rates, San Onofre’s Units 2 and 3 combined were estimated to impinge 1.3 million fish with a total weight of over 14 tons.

This is the worst example on the California coast, but other plants also impinge significantly large numbers of fish. Units 6 and 7 at the Moss Landing plant were estimated to annually impinge a quarter of a million fish weighing 4,060 pounds, even though the plant’s average intake flow is a relatively modest 387 million gallons per day.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
19. This is probably a stupid question....but, why is it not possible
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 09:49 AM
Mar 2013

to use filters that would block some of the fish...although it would maybe be hard with the eggs..and smaller. Still if fish and aquatic organisms are recirculating through and dying it would seem some solution could have been found to deal with this after all these years.


BTW...thanks for your replies on this thread about the technology.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
20. Why don't they stop the slaughter?
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:00 PM
Mar 2013

Let's not forget these are the same people who brought us climate change via coal emissions that they still deny, and they own the nuclear plants that are a danger to all life on this little blue ball.

They don't care about the environment.

Some have been forced over the years to pay some respect, but for the most part they are enabled and allowed to destroy anything in their way so that the lights at the burger king can stay lit 24 hours a day.

What were they thinking, indeed.

What were we thinking to let them do this to our planet?

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
21. "Images of Fukushima disaster will never end" Dr. Helen Caldicott
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 09:02 PM
Mar 2013
Images of Fukushima disaster will never end

Date
March 10, 2013

Helen Caldicott


Two years since the Fukushima nuclear disaster, physician Helen Caldicott says the health implications are only now beginning to show


Like asbestos and tobacco, we know nuclear radiation is a long-term silent killer.

For many years, the asbestos and tobacco industries spent huge amounts of money denying the truth about the health effects of their products. In the end, their lies were exposed. Now the nuclear industry is trying to do the same.

Monday marks two years since the Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan.
Piles of radiation-contaminated waste in the abandoned town of Iitate, near the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant.

Legacy: piles of radiation-contaminated waste in the abandoned town of Iitate, near the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant. Photo: AP

As in the early days of the asbestos and tobacco industries, since the disaster there have been numerous studies of dubious credibility which suggested the health effects in Japan were negligible and there was therefore little cause for concern – despite the fact that the area struck by the earthquake and tsunami had pretty much become a ghost town. For those who chose to stay in the exclusion zone, it is now evident that the medical and environmental consequences of doing so have been profound.


There is a growing body of scientific evidence pointing to disturbing medium- and long-term effects on humans, animals and plants in Japan, caused by the reactor melt-downs, and the release of large amounts of radiation into the atmosphere and the sea.

These include mutations and abnormalities observed in birds, insects and plants in the exclusion zones of Fukushima similar to those found after the Chernobyl nuclear meltdown in 1986.

Scientists have documented an unprecedented increase in thyroid abnormalities, including cancer, in children living in the Fukushima prefecture.

There has been huge, continuing radioactive contamination of the Pacific Ocean (sea floor and fish), and of dangerously large areas, including Tokyo; and contamination of food harvested in Fukushima and beyond.

The truth is that the Fukushima accident is a global public health issue whose implications must be considered by all nations, including Australia. After all, it was our uranium that fuelled at least five of the six reactors.

The truth is the Fukushima accident is not over and will never end. The radioactive fallout, which remains toxic for hundreds to thousands of years and covers large swaths of Japan, will never be “cleaned up”. It will contaminate food, humans and animals forever. Despite Tokyo Electric Power Company's assertions, the three reactors which experienced total meltdowns will almost certainly never be disassembled or decommissioned, not least because of the enormous amount of radiation they will continue to emit.

Furthermore, if building four, which was severely damaged in the original earthquake, should collapse, the massive cooling pool on its roof containing 100 tonnes of extremely radioactive waste could fall to the ground and lose its cooling water. The radioactive rods would spontaneously ignite, releasing further massive amounts of radiation. This building, it is estimated, will take up to two years to repair.

It is crucial to understand that our senses – taste, smell, hearing and sight – cannot detect the biomedical effects of radiation. But we know that radioactive waste from the accident is being released into the biosphere, and is then absorbed by humans, animals and plants.


It then becomes what is known as internal emitters, which make their way into specific organs: radioactive iodine to the thyroid; caesium to muscle, heart and endocrine organs; strontium 90 to bones and teeth; and plutonium, the most toxic, to bones, liver, lung, testicles and the foetus.

There they silently irradiate surrounding cells over many years, causing mutations of the regulatory genes that control cell division. Years later one of these cells can begin dividing uncontrollably, producing a cancer that can spread throughout the body.

That is why the long-term incidence of cancer, since Fukushima, will almost certainly be considerable, although at present the number of cases is small. In other words, these cancers – like mesothelioma after exposure to asbestos – will take years to develop.

For the sake of global public health it is imperative that we shine the light of scientific scrutiny on Fukushima – just as we did at Chernobyl and Three Mile Island.

I
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»What were THEY THINKING?