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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 01:57 PM Mar 2013

We have remarked that one reason offered for being a progressive...

...is that things naturally tend to grow better. But the only real reason for being a progressive is that things naturally tend to grow worse. The corruption in things is not only the best argument for being progressive; it is also the only argument against being conservative. The conservative theory would really be quite sweeping and unanswerable if it were not for this one fact. But all conservatism is based upon the idea that if you leave things alone you leave them as they are. But you do not. If you leave a thing alone you leave it to a torrent of change. If you leave a white post alone it will soon be a black post. If you particularly want it to be white you must be always painting it again; that is, you must be always having a revolution. Briefly, if you want the old white post you must have a new white post.

-- G. K. Chesterton

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We have remarked that one reason offered for being a progressive... (Original Post) Recursion Mar 2013 OP
A Couple Of Points, Sir The Magistrate Mar 2013 #1
Good points all. I wasn't particularly endorsing Chesterton's view... Recursion Mar 2013 #2
Painting is rennovation not revolution HereSince1628 Mar 2013 #3

The Magistrate

(95,247 posts)
1. A Couple Of Points, Sir
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:01 PM
Mar 2013

Offered in part, certainly, as advocatus diaboli, but also in recognition that there is some sense behind the classic conservative view.

The classic conservative view of social and political life was originally rooted in the very idea you describe as essential to progressivism, namely that things are imperfect, and tend to get worse. Starting from this ground, any change, any alteration in things as they are, is viewed by a classic conservative as a deterioration, as this principle of increasing imperfection in operation. The classical conservative considers the imperfection of things to be so inherent a feature of life that he or she must reject the very idea that perfection is possible, and so must regard proposals for improvement are mere moonshine at best, and deliberate fraud at worst, since the thing itself, moving towards perfection amid imperfection, simply cannot be done.

The progressive view is rooted in the idea that social and political life, imperfect as they obviously are, can be improved, can be moved towards perfection, at least, and that perhaps even perfection itself can be achieved. Put bluntly, it is a course fraught with peril, involving as it must novelty and experimentation in uncharted terrain, since perfection, both sides of this agree, is terra novis and exists only in speculation and ideal, and any number of instances where attempts at improvement proved to be anything but may be adduced from history. A deep conviction of the wrongness, of the operation towards evil, in a present state of imperfection is needed to steel people to the conviction it is worth the risks of attempting change.

Modern 'conservatism', examined closely, actually has adopted the basic root of the progressive view, namely that perfection is possible. What it views as perfection is, certainly, very different from what a progressive would consider perfection, but the very belief that an ideal condition, even one couched as a return to a traditional past which was perfect, which embodied the ideal state of social and political life, is a profound break with classical conservative thought. What calls itself 'conservative' nowadays in our country is in fact an extreme radicalism, aiming at revolution with the intent of perfecting society, even humanity itself.

"This is the best world possible; everything in it is a necessary evil"

"Most problems began as solutions."

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
2. Good points all. I wasn't particularly endorsing Chesterton's view...
Mon Mar 25, 2013, 03:05 PM
Mar 2013

... it just is an interesting idea, and as always Chesterton expressed it well. Specifically, "If you want the old white post, you must have a new white post."

Modern 'conservatism', examined closely, actually has adopted the basic root of the progressive view, namely that perfection is possible.

This is one of the most important and under-appreciated aspects of American politics, IMO. As someone who is both a leftist (which I think Noah Millman described well, if broadly, as "siding with losers rather than winners&quot , and a conservative in the classical sense (ie, someone who is wary of broad, rapid change and prefers adapting existing institutions over creating new ones), I find that aspect of the American right particularly alarming.

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