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phantom power

(25,966 posts)
Thu Mar 28, 2013, 06:19 PM Mar 2013

Wikileaks Was Just a Preview: We're Headed for an Even Bigger Showdown Over Secrets

The secrets are out there and everyone from hackers to journalists to U.S. senators are digging in search of them. Sooner or later, there's going to be a pitched battle, one where the state won't be able to peel off one lone Julian Assange or Bradley Manning and batter him into nothingness. Next time around, it'll be a Pentagon Papers-style constitutional crisis, where the public's legitimate right to know will be pitted head-to-head with presidents, generals and CEOs.

My suspicion is that this story will turn out to be less of a simplistic narrative about Orwellian repression than a mortifying journey of self-discovery. There are all sorts of things we both know and don't know about the processes that keep our society running. We know children in Asia are being beaten to keep our sneakers and furniture cheap, we know our access to oil and other raw materials is being secured only by the cooperation of corrupt and vicious dictators, and we've also known for a while now that the anti-terror program they say we need to keep our airports and reservoirs safe involves mass campaigns of extralegal detention and assassination.

We haven't had to openly ratify any of these policies because the secret-keepers have done us the favor of making these awful moral choices for us.

But the stink is rising to the surface. It's all coming out. And when it isn't Julian Assange the next time but The New York Times, Der Spiegel and The Guardian standing in the line of fire, the state will probably lose, just as it lost in the Pentagon Papers case, because those organizations will be careful to only publish materials clearly in the public interest – there's no conceivable legal justification for keeping us from knowing the policies of our own country (although stranger things have happened).

When that happens, we'll be left standing face-to-face with the reality of how our state functions. Do we want to do that? We still haven't taken a very close look at even the Bradley Manning material, and my guess is because we just don't want to. There were thousands of outrages in those files, any one of which would have a caused a My-Lai-style uproar decades ago.

...

What if it we're forced to look at all of this for real next time, and what if it turns out we can't accept it? What if murder and corruption is what's holding it all together? I personally don't believe that's true – I believe it all needs to come out and we need to rethink everything together, and we can find a less totally evil way of living – but this is going to be the implicit argument from the secret-keeping side when this inevitable confrontation comes. They will say to us, in essence, "It's the only way. And you don't want to know." And a lot of us won't.

It's fascinating, profound stuff. We don't want to know, but increasingly it seems we can't not know, either. Sooner or later, something is going to have to give.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/wikileaks-was-just-a-preview-were-headed-for-an-even-bigger-showdown-over-secrets-20130322
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AnotherDreamWeaver

(2,850 posts)
1. The sooner the truths are revealed the better.
Thu Mar 28, 2013, 06:58 PM
Mar 2013

Why are "private schools" able to take Public Money?
Why are 'private prisons' allowed to exist?
(OK, Corporate Money buys Politicians, but can't we change that?)

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
2. Child labor have been around in other countries for
Thu Mar 28, 2013, 08:16 PM
Mar 2013

quite sometime. The GOP want to do the same again here. Yes there are secrets that will make people's skin crawl, no doubt, and America have a lot of them. Countries all over the world have some terrible secrets, secrets that each country will not share among each other nor allow their citizens to know, maybe thats why they are called secrets. If and when Wikileaks reveal some of these secrets to the American public I hope they take under consideration that such secrets can be and possibly harmful to our national security. In other words, they may cause more harm than good.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
9. It's easy to hide crimes behind saying it's National Security
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 04:50 PM
Mar 2013

Which is what they've done.

Bradley Manning didn't have access to the top Secret National Security Classifications. But Cheney did when he outed Valerie Plame. Who is the more traitorous criminal? Who was more harmful to our National Security?

In my opinion Bradley Manning was outing criminal acts. Cheney was using his knowledge to stop Joe Wilson from being able to discredit Cheney's illegal wars. It's pretty clear to me which man is more dangerous to our country.

Lint Head

(15,064 posts)
3. There is a reason that rich and powerful people and corporations can murder with impunity and never
Thu Mar 28, 2013, 09:11 PM
Mar 2013

have to really atone for it. There is a reason rich and powerful people and corporations can steal with impunity and never have to really atone for it. During a holiday visit I once asked a family member, who worked for the CIA, what he did. He said he could not reveal anything, but in general if the American people really knew how things were manipulated throughout the world that the USA would be virtually turned inside out because the average American citizen would be appalled. That was all he could ever say about anything he knew. It did not sound like a joke and the serious look on his face was disturbing. That happened years ago and I remember it to this very day.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
4. Obama still has not released the promised Targeted Killing memos.
Thu Mar 28, 2013, 10:13 PM
Mar 2013

From firedoglake email today:

President Obama finally promised to release legal memos on the Targeted Killing program to members of congressional intelligence committees on February 6, 2013, after over 21 formal requests from legislators.1

But members of these committees have so far only been given limited access to 4 memos and the most important, including those addressing the government's criteria for marking a 'suspected terrorist' for death or listing the countries in which we are conducting strikes, remain secret.

These memos are too important and the President must be held to his promise; that's why we started ReleaseTheMemos.com: a new website tracking the number of days since the President promised to give all memos to Congress alongside our petition demanding their full and immediate release.

Go to [font color=red]ReleaseTheMemos.com [/font color]to sign our petition, learn more about the Targeted Killing program with our interactive timeline and FAQ.

We are calling on the President to first fulfill his obligations to these committees charged with overseeing CIA operations like Targeted Killings. Once they have been released to Congress, the next step is to push those representatives and the administration for the memos' full public release. Several members of these committees, including Senator Ron Wyden and Rep. Barbara Lee, agree that the memos should be made public, so we already have allies to work with once the memos are released.

snot

(10,529 posts)
5. How is the Manning case not already "a Pentagon Papers-style constitutional crisis,
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 03:58 PM
Mar 2013

where the public's legitimate right to know will be pitted head-to-head with presidents, generals and CEOs"???

And "because those organizations (NYT et al.) will be careful to only publish materials clearly in the public interest" – but it's been a long time since most of those organizations published anything the 1% didn't want them to, unless prodded by competition from entities like Wikileaks.

I'm surprised at Taibbi, though hope he's right about a coming showdown.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
7. An article about nothing more than 'what-ifs' and suppositions?
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 04:34 PM
Mar 2013

I'm all for revealing dangerous secrets (which Manning did not do) but I don't understand what this article is about. Someday...someday...somebody...will find something...and then...

dogknob

(2,431 posts)
8. The State lost the Pentagon Papers battle because Cronkite spilled the beans on-air.
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 04:46 PM
Mar 2013

That is not going to happen again. The MSM does not allow anyone to have that much influence... and they have certainly done a great job of bashing Cronkite now that he can't answer...

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