General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhite men have much to discuss about mass shootings
Imagine if African American men and boys were committing mass shootings month after month, year after year. Articles and interviews would flood the media, and wed have political debates demanding that African Americans be held accountable. Then, if an atrocity such as the Newtown, Conn., shootings took place and African American male leaders held a news conference to offer solutions, their credibility would be questionable. The public would tell these leaders that they need to focus on problems in their own culture and communities.
But when the criminals and leaders are white men, race and gender become the elephant in the room. Nearly all of the mass shootings in this country in recent years not just Newtown, Aurora, Fort Hood, Tucson and Columbine have been committed by white men and boys. Yet when the National Rifle Association (NRA), led by white men, held a news conference after the Newtown massacre to advise Americans on how to reduce gun violence, its leaders opinions were widely discussed.
Unlike other groups, white men are not used to being singled out. So we expect that many of them will protest it is unfair if we talk about them. But our nation must correctly define their contribution to our problem of gun violence if it is to be solved.
When white men try to divert attention from gun control by talking about mental health issues, many people buy into the idea that the United States has a national mental health problem, or flawed systems with which to address those problems, and they think that is what produces mass shootings.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/white-men-have-much-to-discuss-about-mass-shootings/2013/03/29/7b001d02-97f3-11e2-814b-063623d80a60_story.html
malaise
(269,004 posts)Rec
KG
(28,751 posts)not surprisingly, the first few comments shown at the site totally missed the point of the editorial...
raccoon
(31,111 posts)be saying that they all needed to be locked up.
name not needed
(11,660 posts)The NRA is perfectly fine with young black males offing each other in record numbers.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)in some other thread.
I'd sure like to hear about programs that work (and I don't mean prison) to help young black men stay out of the killing fields of some of our cities.
SharonAnn
(13,775 posts)by a woman objecting to their behavior and starting to do "something "against" them.
Such as a mother who wanted them to get treatment, stop using drugs, etc. Or a wife/girlfriend who broke up with them or walked out.
In these cases, that actions seems to trigger a need to assert themselves and violence is what they do. Perhaps they think themselves? entitled to have dominion over women?
These are just observations and questions that I have. Wonder if there's any analysis of this?
Squinch
(50,949 posts)over that pesky "world economy destruction" thing either.
undeterred
(34,658 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I'm white and female. But I noticed who was doing the mass killings and wondered why that wasn't being targeted for study, at the least.
I also noticed that a number of them had been playing violent video games in the days leading up the mass killing. That should be looked at, as well.
By the same token, young black males do a lot of the one on one shooting in urban areas, so that should be (and has been) studied. Most recently, young black males intentionally and cruelly killed a white baby. If the reverse had been true, I wonder if people would be calling the perpetrators racists (if the young males are found guilty).
All these things should be noted and studied, without fear of being accused of picking on a gender or race, or anti-video games. A scientific study should include all the facts.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)That's my hypothesis. For a white male in our society there is an expectation of privilege and domination. A deep hatred of society is at the root of these shootings.
As a white male, I'll say that I'm sure it isn't primarily things like "video games." Boys of all backgrounds have been playing shoot'em up games since guns were invented. Young men often go through an "angry" phase - I did. I didn't take it in the direction of violence towards others. At the root of it was deep frustration. Perhaps at the root of this was frustration due to expectations I had internalized and not achieved.
Just thinking while typing. Stillm as a white male, I think the article names an important elephant in the room.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)You were raised to take responsibility for your own actions and forced to grow up like the rest of us. The ones raised with that boys will be boys mentality never really grow up. And we have to pick up the pieces behind their messes and do the best we can with what is left. Sadly, many were not raised to control themselves, act responsibly, and grow up, like you did during your "angry" phase.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)Yeah, I have my mom and dad to thank for that.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)78% US population is white, according to the census. Here is a list from Mother Jones, they leave out the DC Snipers, not sure why that is but they do.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2
The Fort Hood shooter was American born to Palestinian parents, Nidal Malik Hasan. He's Arabic.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)is defined as four or more shot dead at the same time/in the same incident. The DC sniper was more akin to a terrorist or a serial killer, as they were killed one at a time over a period of several weeks.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)On the morning of October 3, four people were shot within a span of approximately two hours in Aspen Hill and other nearby areas in Montgomery County. Another was killed that evening in the District of Columbia, just over the border from Silver Spring.
Also it was 3 weeks, not 'several weeks'. The shootings were not one at a time.
Ten total, each selected for targeting as individuals, including women and children.
I note that you did not address anything else I posted.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08/what-is-a-mass-shooting
And here are he criteria and the reasoning:
We excluded crimes involving armed robbery or gang violence;
The attack must have occurred in essentially a single incident, in a public place;
The killer, in accordance with the FBI guideline, had to have taken the lives of at least four people.
When the crime is fits that pattern, the perpetrators are overwhelmingly White. There should be nothing in those criteria that excludes any other race, yet, White males commit the vast majority of mass shootings. Reason: unknown.
And in case you say that's Mother Jones being biased, Princeton University also uses that criteria:
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Mass_murder.html
and the FBI:
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder/serial-murder-1#two
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)so, 4 or more people, not including the killer, typically in a single location
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)FBI are done by whites. I guess that's overwhelming, but it is also a fact that the US has more than 60% white population. I'm just trying to get to actual facts, such as numbers rather than words of characterization. If the percentage of events by race is about the same as the percentage of population by race, then is there any point made at all?
The thing all the gun killers have in common is that they live in the United States and almost all are men.
Princeton's definition is vague about the time frame"
Mass murder (in military contexts, sometimes interchangeable with "mass destruction" is the act of murdering a large number of people (four or more), typically at the same time or over a relatively short period of time.
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Mass_murder.html
What exactly comprises 'relatively short' period of time is up for discussion. 13 victims in 10 days with as many as 4 victims in one place is what the DC snipers did. No robbery, no gang activity, multiple victims in a short time. I'd count them as mass murders myself.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)If you trim the criteria specifically so that one race is represented, then that's specifically racist.
Given of one type of crime whose criteria-- presumably-- wasn't chosen to single out Whites, yet White's predominate with it. Remember, however, this doesn't say anything the numbers in similar crimes. Remember also that the sample size of mass shootings is still rather small (maybe it doesn't seem like that, but it is). Maybe it's a statistical fluke, like the statistics that correlate skirt lengths with the stock market. The correlation was there at least for a long time. But it still had no validity due to lack of relevance.
Also, just because Whites lead in one form of crime doesn't mean that it doesn't even out by race with a very small adjustment of criteria.
TheBlackAdder
(28,201 posts)But, then again, whites Christians are the privileged class in this country so they're would be less events as they are not denigrated as much as other races, nationalities and creeds.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)a : more than one <several pleas>
b : more than two but fewer than many <moved several inches>
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/several
sev·er·al [sev-er-uhl, sev-ruhl] Show IPA
adjective
1. being more than two but fewer than many in number or kind: several ways of doing it.
so, three weeks is "several" weeks per both dictionary.com and merrriam-webster.com
And, as per the FBI, a mass shooting is a single incident, typically at a single location. The DC Sniper incidents you mentioned were at four separate locations.
MineralMan
(146,312 posts)instead of people's short memories, in this thread.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)The Scripps study found that 73 percent of all mass murders were committed by males, 6 percent by females and 21 percent by people of unknown gender because police did not catch them.
Mass murderers are considerably more likely to be white males than are killers in general. Sixty percent of mass murders are committed by whites, compared to 49 percent of all killings. Blacks account for 36 percent of mass killings, but 49 percent of all homicides. People of other races account for 4 percent of mass killings and 2 percent of all homicides.
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/dec/17/mass-multiple-murder-rates-constant-despite-overal/
MineralMan
(146,312 posts)A lot of threads on DU lack that important component.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Which is the criteria the FBI uses: occurring at one location, in one incident, without a cooling-off period. So, the question is: are non-Black male mass shooters just lazier than others?
datasuspect
(26,591 posts)it's the wild west.
sure, it's not focused in one location, but there's plenty of blame to go around for everyone.
Robb
(39,665 posts)Note how many of the "winning" cities have lax gun law (Chicago's city rate is 11.6.).
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/12/geography-gun-violence-cities-versus-metros/4044/
datasuspect
(26,591 posts)- my initial point.
and yes, guns are outlawed in chicago. they have been for many years. it's open season for the thugs and the cops in chicago.
i don't have family members or close friends who live in any of the cities you listed, so it doesn't come up on my radar too much.
Robb
(39,665 posts)datasuspect
(26,591 posts)das ist mir kaese.
MineralMan
(146,312 posts)We may be talking about a phenomenon that doesn't actually exist in this thread.
Baraki
(24 posts)IOW, lax or strict gun laws are not an indicator of violence rates but rather the groups of people will do what they do no matter what...
onehandle
(51,122 posts)datasuspect
(26,591 posts)white males primarily control everything in this country.
white males, white males, white males.
and 2 + 2 = 4.
what is your point beyond that?
it still doesn't address the problem of inner city violence.
how do you get trigger happy tweens and various assorted younguns to have respect for human life?
bonniebgood
(943 posts)desensitizes a person as well as violent video games. The need to see 'something or someone kicking, screaming and bleeding' is a mental problem.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)We all kill to eat. You, me, everyone here. If you have a problem with the manner or style, make your case.
You assert "kicking, screaming and bleeding" is a need of hunters. Got any studies, data to back up this sadism speculation? While you are at it, post the "desensitized" stuff, too.
In reality, most hunters want the animal to go down immediately; few if any "need" to see suffering, and no one wants a long tracking exercise.
BTW, how do you kill?
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Yeah. Just imagine if any not-white men belonged to gangs and killed people ritually. Mass murdered innocents.
Just imagine.
Robb
(39,665 posts)increasing from about 220 homicides in 1980 to 960 homicides in 2008. From 1980 to 2008, gang
violence increased from one percent to six percent of all homicides.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)960 homicides in 2008.
And what fraction of the total homicides were from mass murders by white men?
Don't answer that! Get angry and insult me instead ... in 3, 2, 1, .....
Robb
(39,665 posts)You merely parroted an inaccurate position -- accidentally deflecting the conversation from white privilege to the perhaps more comfortable realm of "all those gang people killing each other."
I'm more than happy to help.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Whether or not black-on-black gun violence is 1% or 10% or 90%, you don't have to "use your imagination" to know that it exists. The entire premise of the article is in the toilet.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)For all the attention they receive, mass shootings are not the main source of gun violence. In 2010, according to the FBI, around 8,775 people were murdered with firearms in the United States. Less than 1 percent of those victims were killed in mass shootings.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/02/study-the-u-s-has-had-one-mass-shooting-per-month-since-2009/
Number23
(24,544 posts)Yes, I'm sure it's always "accidental". All 500 times a day it's brought up around here by those that can't stand it when anyone wants to discuss crimes that are specific to white men.
mountain grammy
(26,621 posts)call it poor statistics and cite some of your own, but to interpret this as "comedy gold" is a bit much don't you think? Sounds like something blowhard rush would say..
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Not the skin color.
dangin
(148 posts)Sly James, is who I believe called the epidemic of black in black gun crime mass murder in slo motion,
But clearly white males mental pathology is the most virulent in sudden outbursts.
Evan the toughest, prison hardened, no education having pissed off black man is terrified of someone who looks like Dwight from the office and is bat shit crazy.
mountain grammy
(26,621 posts)Every white man out there who thinks this post has no truth or value raise their cold dead hands.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)It's pretty straightforward, really.
mountain grammy
(26,621 posts)Does that mean pretty soon they won't be in charge of virtually EVERYTHING?
iiibbb
(1,448 posts)... oh wait... that would be racist.
So the question is... in your opinion, is it right to try to stigmatize a race because of a certain type of crime?
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Wanna talk about Indian rape, gang violence in AA community, sexism in Arab communities, other assorted ills in every community of color? DU can do that all day every day.
But wanna talk about the NUMEROUS ills that befall white people or fucked up stuff that white people do on a regular basis? Better put on that Kevlar and head for the hills quick, fast and in a hurry.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Not sensible.
iiibbb
(1,448 posts)It is a mistake to separate the killings by race. This is as bad a meme as drawing conclusions about African Americans and their homicide rates.
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)thucythucy
(8,052 posts)Thank you.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)They make themselves out to be heroes for doing some of the nastiest, most inhumane, disgusting things imaginable. Just look at one example of biological warfare on American soil. They purposely gave blankets infected with small pox to the Native America tribes that they were uprooting and driving further and further west. The Trail of Tears was pure torture that resulted in many many more unnecessary deaths. Wars galore through the years. Who has nuked somebody? White American males. America has a very short history compared to other countries though. Look at how white men have ruled empires for centuries. The Brits sure had fun torturing the Indians and keeping them down for a long damn time too, not to mention all their other atrocities through the centuries.
That mentality is something the white man constantly instills into us. We are supposed to see their behavior as "heroic" when they do incredibly bad things to entire groups of people. When we try to get any relief at all from the government that we fund entirely with our own money, we are told we need to take cuts in all of the "social programs" that wouldn't even be needed as much if we did not have so many unnecessary wars, bombs built daily, and spending on unnecessary bullshit in the government instead of a government that worked on providing a better quality of life for its citizens and made companies pay us a decent wage for the work we do. It's another form of slavery to be forced to work thankless shit jobs, for way too little pay, just so our money can go to pay for the white men in charge to keep having their stupid wars. They are building weapons and having wars for their own amusement and fun at this point. It has gotten out of control at this point and most people really do not want to talk about the elephant in the room. The boys will be boys excuse used for the behavior of white men for ages now is how they condition the rest of us to take their shit. It is time they take responsibility for their actions like the rest of us and grow the fuck up.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Not only mass murders, but another category, the murder-suicide, where the husband kills the estranged wife, and/or the kids, and then himself.
A man who is supposed to have control loses all control, and has no outlet to get it back except through use of guns. This man is also in serious emotional pain, and seeks revenge against those he believes caused him this pain. This can result in either specific harm, or in a more generalized societal way, against the society that has hurt him, hence the random shootings.
Those who commit these murders believe they have no power and no hope of getting it back. Their lives are essentially over anyway, so they are going to hurt those that created this situation for them in the first place, and no one can stop them and their guns.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Screaming "Chicago!" and "Gangs!" doesn't get you around that, doesn't buy you out of it. Indeed, it shows the ploy up as the anxiety-ridden diversion that it is, since we're perfectly willing to index gang violence to racially inflected cultures, so why aren't you? Why are white males so fucking angry?
Love it.
ETA: The only change I'd make to your awesome post is "why are white males so fucking SPECIAL?" If we can talk about what ails everyone else, then why the hell do white guys get so PRICKLY when someone tries to do it to them?
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)That is one solution white males can be a big part of, for starters.
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)No need. I'm not responsible for it. Period.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)You will not see a lot of diversity.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... who if they could have their wish, would see every gun on the planet melted down and made into a tool useful to better someones life? You know, those of us that abhor violence of all kinds, but especially that directed towards innocents? Those of us that oppose war? Those of us that oppose economic crimes by the rich?
That's one mighty broad brush being used in this article.
sarisataka
(18,655 posts)The bar has been lowered to include white males, regardless of gun ownership. Have a nice day
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Could you please expand on what you are trying to say?
sarisataka
(18,655 posts)because the article is assigning blame for mass shooting, in some part, to you personally because you fit a demographic. You personally are opposed to violence and have progressive values so are feeling unfairly blamed in the context.
Some of us here are gun owners. We too are opposed to violence, have progressive values and support gun control to varying degrees. Despite being 100% Democrats who support progressive issues, yet have difference of opinion on one issue, we are often broad brushed. We can even be strongly in favor of GC, yet differ only in say magazine limits yet support other strong measures, and are labeled NRA parrots/ supporters, cowards, murderers, apologists, racists, teabaggers, and variety of vulgar terms and on and on...
You now have an inkling of what it is like to be a progressive gun owner. You get accused, marginalized and blamed for events completely beyond your control based on your demographic and your personal views are ignored or assumed and dictated to you.
Some of us hardly notice the brush anymore...
99Forever
(14,524 posts).. is some mighty fine twisting of logic. My hat is off to you.
(Oh and btw, gun culture people don't just "fit the demographic," they provide the tools of the violence and vigorously fight any and every effort to try and bring an end to the insanity.)
But, you go ahead and run with that "we're just poor powerless victims, too" theme. It's kinda cute.
sarisataka
(18,655 posts)I'm guilty either way...
I do realize painters get paint on themselves
Again, have a nice day
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Have a great weekend.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)If black men were murdering children in America's schools and in every other public place imaginable, there would be a lockstep knee jerk reaction that would make this country go into lock down. Black men everywhere in the country would be suspected, dragged out of their homes, and locked up for the most minor of stuff, just to send a message that America is tough on crime. It would be horrible to witness. It goes on anyhow as it is now, but there would be way more of it, if black men were murdering children in their schools every time we turn around.
But because white guys are doing it, I think we are all kinda used to that from them; white guys doing whatever the fuck they want to do, because "boys will be boys." We hear than when little boys torture animals, girls and other boys and we hear it even when they are grown and refuse to take responsibility for their own families; instead opting to spend most of the family's household budget on expensive ass guns, hunting gear, hot rod cars, and whatever else they find "fun."
The country has been in the control of mostly white guys for centuries now too. Look how much wasteful spending, stupid extra spending on things the government has no business doing (paying people to shoot wolves from helicopters so ranchers won't have to build a damn fence around their cattle, for one), and generally spending the most amount of money for the least amount of return on our investment. They are doing it with our money and we have no real say in how wasteful their spending is. Why doesn't the government buy from wholesale instead of spending $600 on a damn toilet? They were never held accountable for that and other proven wasteful spending. The amount of taxes we pay would give this country the best medical care, social programs, and safety net programs imaginable if white men had to buckle down and learn how to budget, act responsibly, buy "needs" first instead of whatever the fuck they want to buy, and, most importantly, grow the fuck up.
Instead, we hear "boys will be boys" ad infinitum for the entire duration of their lives. Meanwhile the rest of us are just barely keeping our heads above water, scrounging for food, clothes, and the basics we need to barely survive, minimum wage is still a fucking joke, and people who are on Social Security get to be told they need to take "cuts" every time we turn around.
If you really stop and think about it, these school shootings and other mass shootings are really a metaphor for our own government. They spend and spend and spend on weaponry to go have their fun having unnecessary wars, then tell the rest of us we are going to have to take cuts to all of the rest of the U.S. government budget so they can build more bombs and have more unnecessary wars. Meanwhile, most of the people in poverty in America are children, the very people who have to worry about being shot by another product of the "boys will be boys" mentality when they simply go to school to try to learn enough so one day they can be hired to barely make enough to survive in this "boys will be boys" world.
If black men behaved that way, we'd be on lock down and America would be talking about the problems they are causing. Instead, it's white guys doing the vast majority of these mass shootings. So, we sort of give them a pass when they don't want to learn how to be more responsible with their guns and other toys of mass destruction, because "boys will be boys."
Because it is white guys who are doing the majority of these mass shootings, the rest of us are kind of used to that sort of behavior. We've been working around the end results of the "boys will be boys" mentality for ages now. So, nothing has been done to stop it and nothing will be done that will stop it. They have been acting that way for ages now. And the rest of us pick up the pieces and clean up behind them and work with what little budget we have left and scrimp and scrounge and save and come up with coping mechanisms to survive this ungodly phenomena, just like we always have. Boys will be boys, after all.
Purplehazed
(179 posts)specifically pointed at white men, and all of a sudden there is dialogue? The same conversation without race is flamed as "NRA talking points" The same conversation pointed at non-whites would be called racist.
Yes, there is a huge problem with gun accessibility. A point that has, and will continue to be discussed. I am not trying to deflect that issue.
What have we done to the children we have raised??? Something is drastically wrong when a firearm is treated like a trinket, a toy, anything but a deadly weapon. I am even further disturbed by witnessing the callous disregard for human life! Whether it is murdering the 7-11 clerk for twenty bucks, or shooting up a crowd over some type of grievance, the most basic respect for a human life has gone awry.
In casual conversation people I've encountered will easily pass off suicide bombings, limbs being hacked off and beheadings as something that happens in unenlightened hellish countries over "there" with extremist movements. The violence in our country has no similar excuse. I suspect that it is a combination of consumerism, insulating children from the real world, teaching children that everyone is special, glorifying violence in popular culture and offering a grim economic future among other things. Only guesses on my part.
Zax2me
(2,515 posts)Black serial killers and mass shooters (Omar Thornton-Colin Ferguson) are not out of step statistically if you assume the ratio of population.
The Virginia tech shooter killed scores - Asian.
The white male whipping post just does hold water.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)... we get a disproportionate share of the blame from democrats and a disproportionate share of the pandering from republicans.
49% (males) * 78% (whites) * 76% (adults) = 29%.
There's no other group at whom this kind of profiling would be considered acceptable by progressives. That is absolute truth. ("but it's different because you deserve it!!"
I don't think I have much to discuss about the behavior of Warren Jeffs, for instance, because my skin is the same color, or I am the same gender, or I live in the same half of the country or my last first name shares some letters in common with his last.
Nothing about the article above attempts to make a serious discussion about the issue of gun violence, it simply gives 71% of the population a reason dump collective guilt on someone else.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)theKed
(1,235 posts)are a horrible human being for considering that such a thing might occur.
Initech
(100,076 posts)Jenna and Tracy are having an episode long debate about who has it harder in society: women or black men. At the end of the episode this exchange takes place:
Jack: I'll tell you who has it the hardest in society: white males. We make the unpopular decisions that make everyone's lives miserable.
Kenneth: Well I'm a white male and I respectfully disagree.
Jack: No Kenneth you are not technically a white male. Politically, socially, and economically speaking your personality traits paint you more as an inner city Latina female.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...that race is a causal or even a significant correlative factor for mass shootings - the case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho amply demonstrates that this is a presumption fraught with peril. I would not disagree that gender is a correlative factor; gun ownership in America is predominantly a male activity and gun violence similarly is heavily carried out by males. The argument that could be made from the data that white men are more likely to own guns than African-American or Hispanic-Americans reflects the urban-suburban-rural divide; white men in urban areas are also less likely to own guns. Rural areas are much more heavily white and someone who lives in a rural area is much more likely to own a gun, and so that skews the issue demographically in this regard. Men overall are three times more likely to own a gun than women.
http://www.people-press.org/2013/03/12/section-3-gun-ownership-trends-and-demographics/
I think that all this distracts from the real issue of easy access to weapons designed to do little more than kill human beings; the weapon of choice today is not and has not been recently single-shot hunting rifles. Sociology and logic in general conclude clearly that when a gun is present it is more likely to be used in a violent act that is deadlier than say if the chosen weapon was a knife or baseball bat. In this vein, I think the clearest and best statement of fact in regard to mass shootings in America is that they do not happen in America when American men do not own or have access to guns.
Race alone generally does not exclude one from participating in the American gun culture nor does it preclude someone from gun ownership, what it does generally do is demonstrate which part of the gun culture one is likely to participate in - most African-Americans who own guns are likely not NRA members. I would be very interested to see some demographic polling on assault weapon ownership and on type and quantity of firearm ownership in general. I think I'm going to have persuade Pew to poll for those things because they would be of great use to social scientists in assessing these issues.
kjones
(1,053 posts)I don't care if it's a panda in a tutu.
Mass shootings are tragic, yes. They're photogenic too.
We don't seem to care so much, or notice, the people who are dying all the time, every day.
Killed by all sorts of people, or even themselves. It doesn't diminish the tragedy just because it
happens one at a time.
I'd also point out the outcry you'd raise if you'd started with "Black men..." or any other demographic,
for that matter. "Gun violence" is the problem...and "gun violence" is an American problem.
JI7
(89,250 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)and remind everyone of their "liberal cred" even though they're a white male should show how important this discussion is.
As a black woman, I am sick and goddamned tired of everybody discussing all of the ills that affect women, blacks, Arabs, Asians etc. etc. etc. but for some reason, no body can point to the NUMEROUS ills occurring in the white community, and especially not the white male community without some getting all bent out of shape.
The fact that so many felt the inexplicable need to bring up gun violence in Chicago in between all of the squirming should convince everyone that this is a topic that some white men are VERY uncomfortable having. Which probably means it was a conversation that should have been had 50 years ago.