Disgusting and horrible.

would like to add that the inability to afford health care isn't limited to the poorest US citizens (which alone would be horrendous) .... many, many median income families can't afford health care or are financially ruined by co-pays and out of pocket expenses.

As a Canadian, I can walk into any hospital, any time, without worrying about insurance.

And walk out without paying a penny.

you Canadians have to wait months for even a basic check up due to the HC system being overtaxed, and every Canadian with the means is rushing over the border to pay exorbitant sums for superior American health coverage.

who ever had that issue. The best they can do is cite a one or two cases that don't seem to be the norm. At least none of the Canadians I spoke to about it seem to have those issues. One of the Canadians is a pretty conservative guy who would probably be a republican if he was from the US (funny thing is that he'd probably also be ranting against the Canadian healthcare system if he was from the US)

Even if that were the case, I'd rather wait a month for a checkup than to not get any checkup at all.

whom the RWers would parade around on all of their shows to talk about the "horrors" of socialized HC in Canada. Her mother died of a treatable illness because she was misdiagnosed, and she blamed socialized medicine in general for her mother's death. I heard her do an interview on Thom Hartmann's radio show a few years back, and her claims were totally laughable. She also refused to respond to Hartmann's repeated questions about whether or not she actually believed that no patients were ever misdiagnosed in the US. I got the impression that she was just a shill who was exploiting her mother's death for profit.

Good comeback.

I've lost count of the number of times someone tried to tell me that in Canada we need weeks for a doctor's appointment that has to be preapproved by the government, etc., only to continue claiming that when I say I've lived in the country for thirty-one years and have yet to see or hear of that sort of thing.

He's just regurgitating what he hears on RW talk radio and Fox "News." He's one of those people who considers himself an expert on everything that he has absolutely no firsthand knowledge of.

I've had many conversations online with Americans who insist we have these insane waiting times for basic care. Every single time, I tell them I can usually get into see my doctor the same day, or the next. If I'm too sick to wait, I go a walk in clinic, or to the ER, where the longest i've ever waited is 6 hours (on a Friday night, on the hottest day of the year, where sun stroke victims and drunks were streaming in). I walk out without paying a penny.
The only problem I have with our system is that it doesn't cover drugs or dental and I pay through the NOSE for those services. I can't imagine having to deal with paying out the nose for everything! And within my immediate family, we've never had to wait very long for elective surgeries either.

I also like telling them how neither the government or the insurance companies have a say on my treatment. My doctor decides what I need, and the only thing the government does is pay the bill for it. I also like to tell them how I can see any doctor I want in the country, no HMO's or doctor 'groups'. Usually they had no idea. I hope I opened a few eyes on those message boards. I hate hearing all the stupid fake stories about our health care coming from some people.

Unless it was for some experimental treatments in Mexico or the Phillipines.

But yes, there is a bit of wait for non-esssentials like checkups, but rarely more than a month for me.

But in case of emergencies, we get services just as quickly as the best American insurance scheme.

so that isn't a negative on the Canadian side.

about what could have been an extremely serious problem (it wasn't, thank goodness). I spent days on the phone calling office after office, every one within 50 miles that was on our insurance, trying to make an appointment for him. The the shortest waiting time I could get was FIVE MONTHS. We weren't living in some backwater, either, with few doctors nearby - the 50 mile radius included the whole of Dallas and Forth Worth. We ended up paying high as hell out-of-network rates for him to see one within a reasonable time.

Yes ,Hes a douche bag because,and this is coming from a bonefide Canadian,its absolute baloney.

we can't have anything unless somebody else is getting screwed out of it.

So we can't have health care unless somebody ( a lot of somebodies) lack health care.

Your bother in law is also factually incorrect. Americans actually go to Canada for medical care. (and mexico) But I doubt that matters to him

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism

they will only make sure you're not dying. Then of you'll get a huge bill a month or so later. I do know some hospitals have charity programs that function similar to insurance programs to those who qualify. I'm not sure of the requirements or what has to be done to get on the programs though. Nor do I know the quality of care you get.

'cause the enormous profitability of the for-profit health insurance industry and large pharmaceuticals must be protected at all costs even-though: tens of millions do not have ready access to health care at a staggering economic cost and loss of life and quality of life. But these are but small sacrifices Americans gladly make for the joys of living in a right-wing-soused society wherein the interests of large corporations, the uber-wealthy, and oligarchs are promoted rather than the general welfare.

Profit system during the HC debate here. I am waiting for him to move here to enjoy it.

I can't remember his name but here is what he looks like or I think he looks like that, I always saw that portrait in his posts ridiculing those of us that wanted a more Canadian model than the Heritage Foundation model that our pragmatists preferred and that was THANK GAWD passed.

Maybe he'll be along with some of his usual highbrow, deeply thoughtful witticisms.

I would also bet that it would bring down the deficit too but it wouldn't be very popular going through the process.

The UK covers its population with universal healthcare with about the same amount of money that is spent on US medicare each year. multiply the medicare budget by 5, and there's your budget. Increase the medicare tax, everyone in the USA has medical coverage. Doctors would be independent contractors. Office staff would deal with only one insurance company. Yes there will be waiting lists for non urgent care. Existing hospitals would run as non profits only, and would have to take the standard reimbursement rate. Costs can be cut further if a lot of these hospitals were nationalized. The UK's NHS is one of the largest employers in the world. Multiply that by five. It would be nice to tell the world that Medicare USA is the worlds largest employer.

Why won't it work here? Big Insurance and Big Pharma. Their businesses would disappear. Big pharma won't be able to rip off the public in the way they do now. For profit hospitals would have a much smaller customer base. There will be no need for adverts for medicines on TV or in print as doctors will have no choice but to prescribe the best drug for the patient rather than be swayed by what a pharma sales rep in a sales push. And there is a significant minority who thinks government healthcare is the root of all evil, despite many of them being on medicare...

So until commonsense prevails or we get people in Congress who are bold enough to go thus way we will be stick with what we have.

He is proud of his health care system.
Says if its an emergency you get seen right away but its also true you may need to wait for elective surgery but it is not denied.
He also said he knows people who are afraid to go to the USA. You might get in a car accident and be in an American hospital and be sacked with bills you cannot pay.
His bottom line on comparing how the USA system compares to the Canadian system.
Its really quite simple. You don't treat people that way (the way we are treated in the USA).
-Airplane

I used to date a Canadian who lived in Winnipeg. I lived in Fargo ND at the time. We would alternate weekends at each others place (200 mile trip). She could not believe what we put up with for what we call health care down here. That was a deal breaker as far as she was concerned. She paid extra for medical insurance in case she was in an accident down here and needed medical care. I did not need any such thing up there.
Anyway, she had a bronchitis attack one night. A friend helped her get to the emergency room. After she was stabilized, she was admitted to the hospital, where she spent two or three days recuperating. Her total cost for the whole experience was a $10 copay for the antibiotics prescription they sent home with her. 10 dollars - total! Try that down here some time. The bills would be coming in for months and equal a nice down payment on a new car.

That is the difference between the thinking that people are more important that profits vs profits are more important than people. And as far as I know the Canadians do not even have a 'general welfare' clause in their constitution, as we do, and yet they take better care of their citizens.

When I watched an episode of The Streets of San Francisco where a young man was forced to rob a bank to be able to afford medicine, a plotline that would make no sense in most of the developed world.

And it's gotten sooooo much worse since the seventies.

After all the provisions of The Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare) are implemented,
the conversation if the American Trailer Park will go like this:

"Come on Bubbles, we have to take you to the hospital."
"Ricky, I can't go to the hospital. I have the Mandated "Bronze" Insurance,
but I can't afford the Co-Pay."

Trailer Park Boys--we have nothing like it.

And as for the American Health care system, it is absolutely inhumane.

I get the same thing. WHY don't Americans demand better? I tell them--remember you're living in a country where the government works for the people most of the time.

on a certain type cancer. So where did they send a group of experts to learn about that? Denmark (another Socialist hell hole), b/c they got it right.

None of the 'socialized medicine' countries have got everything right. But if the worst happens you get the best treatment available without losing your home. And that's kind of the point, isn't it?

Even if it gets america closer to the Canadian universal care. He knows how it works since he saw it working with my husband and our son diagnosed two months apart with cancer. Husband had nonhodgekin's lymphoma and our son glioblastma multiform brain tumour. No waiting for anything, they got everything . son had same tumour as ted Kennedy. My son lived longer than Kennedy. Alas they both died . son in 18 months and husband 18 months after him. Govt gave me $2300 for each of them toward funeral expenses. Cost of all their doctor, lab, hospital, palliative care, operations, chemo, radiation, counseling for all the family was ZERO.

My brother's daughter of two young girls works for martin loughheed and her husband for ups. She hates obama . she told me she didn't want to pay for any one else's health care, no matter how poor or desperate they are. My brother says those people can get health care at emergency room. He told me once he thought Hannity should be President. And that it would not bother him at all is Obama died.

I no longer communicate with him.

All the Canadians I know are thankful we have our health care and are not like america.

i had the same kind of thought

My wife called 911. By the time they arrived, I was feeling better and refused a trip to the emergency room to get checked out "just to be safe" because ambulances and emergency rooms cost money. I believe my insurance would have covered the ambulance but there would have been a $150 co-pay in the ER just to "get checked out" and released. And, of course, if you don't have insurance, you're talking a LOT more money.

Here's how an unwanted ambulance trip became a financial nightmare for me:

I was at a clinic for severe pain (later found out at the hospital that I had an infected gall bladder that had to be removed) that had been getting worse over a 12 hr period, but I had no insurance...

The clinic apparently didn't believe I was in pain, wouldn't prescribe any pain meds (might be a dtug addict, you know), and wouldn't even let me lie down on a bench in the waiting room. On the way out the clinic door, my knees simply gave way from the involuntary trembling in my body due to the pain (later found out the pain might have put me in shock which can cause trembling).

Long story short, I ended up being loaded in an ambulance. When I realized it was a private ambulance, I told the paramedic that I had no insurance, no money to pay them, no possibility of any money, and to release me, so that my son who drove me to the clinic could simply drive me the 1 1/2 miles straight down the road to the hospital for a diagnosis (should have gone to the ER in the first place, but was trying to save money by going to a clinic).

The paramedic said he couldn't make me stay, but if I did, they wouldn't charge me for the ride since they were already there, with the selling point being that he would have me all ready for admittance to the ER with an IV already hooked up by the time we arrived at the hospital. I agreed to stay put. I didn't sign for service and the paramedic simply had me sign that he had released me into the care of the hospital, then took off.

I ended up fighting a bill for that ride for 8 months afterward. I explained to the ambulance company, in person, that their paramedic said there would be no charge, but they refused to give me the paramedic's name, so he could verify what was said, citing HIPPA privacy laws (bullocks...HIPPA was never set up to prevent patient's from reviewing their own treatment records).

I eventually got a record from the hospital that had his name on it, and let the ambulance company know I was going to follow through with that info. I then heard back pretty quickly from the local head of the company. He said that he had spoken to the paramedic, that the paramedic said what he did in order to keep me in the ambulance for cautionary puposes and that their paramedics have done this in the past when patients

That's just effed up.

I don't know if "Obamacare" rectifies this or not, but I sure hope so. If I've got a potential life-threatening condition, I don't want to be refusing treatment just because I can't cough up a couple of hundred $ that afternoon.

it is not free we all pay the taxes we can afford to pay for it. I have seen a few polls that say a majority of American would like to have something similar to the rest of the first world countries so what gives? I can't say or read the praise private medical insurance with out thinking non productive blood sucking leech coming to mind.

because the blood sucking leeches are sucking us dry. They are holding us hostage no matter what the American people want.

And I thought the same thing.

AND I HAVE INSURANCE!

I though to myself, can I afford the co-pay/deductible right now? And the answer is no.

Shouldn't be like that.


As it turned out, it wasn't as bad as I first thought, not to mention I am a world class clotter! There is still a hole in my finger but a first aid kit and some human "stop leak" type stuff did the trick.

you can see a doctor or go to a hospital.
High deductibles, fighting on what the insurance will cover etc makes many people think twice before they hop in the car and head to the doc.

First I can't believe the garbage lies that are told about the Canadian Health Care System - really, I can't believe how gullible people are, it's bloody laughable the crap that's digested as truth (present company excluded of course)

So here's a personal experience:

Someone I am close to (Canadian) was hospitalized in the US,
He had insurance to cover him (being in the US, you just don't travel there
without health insurance coverage before you leave Canada - some people
buy there own, others may have it covered on their company group plans)

He was very ill, in the hospital for about a week or so,

The insurance company paid to have him Medivacced home - because it's cheaper
to get him sent home on a private medical plane than it is for that insurance
company to PAY the US health bills that will continue to pile up should he stay there.

I know of two more people (friends of family that this same thing happened to)

It's just a fact, it's too expensive in the US.

He had 200% care when he arrived home. No problem.

We had a contest here in Canada, a national vote on who is The Greatest Canadian of all time. Its been done in other countries, but I don't think in the USA. The winner was Tommy Douglas, looked upon as the father of medicare in this country. A preacher and great orator and leader of the first socialist party of Canada who strongarmed the government at the time to establish our single payer medical system.

Also, why would Britain start off their London Olympics show with a long dedicated tribute to their National Healthcare service if it was so unliked? It was sad to watch, when during the major debates while the Affordable Healthcare Act was going down, not one of the major networks even bothered to send someone up here and investigate how it works. There are always problems in any large system, but I'm sure they would have at least been able to enlighten viewers of WHY we treasure it so much.