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tabatha

(18,795 posts)
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 01:52 AM Feb 2012

To the People of Syria by Masha Gessen in Moscow; " I am writing to say I am sorry"

I cannot speak for all Russian citizens, but I can tell you this much: the government that on Saturday blocked the U.N. Security Council’s resolution on Syria does not represent the people of Russia. It holds power in my country because it has rigged elections and has used money and fear to keep tens of millions of people in line for years — you know how that goes. Russians were far too complacent for far too long, and for that I am sorry.

But we are not complacent anymore. Inspired in part by what has come to be called the Arab Spring, we have been taking to the streets since December. I am one of the hundreds of people who helped organize the protest this past Saturday. The night before I had insomnia, brought on by a migraine, itself probably brought on by my fear of the cold: the forecast promised -5 degrees Fahrenheit. (It turned out to be accurate.) I contemplated not joining the march, but in the morning I put on every piece of clothing in the apartment, collected my gear — I was responsible for organizing chanters along the route and supplying them with megaphones — and went out. And so did many, many others.

The Kremlin has tried ignoring this and other protests, discrediting the organizers and countering us with rallies of its own. None of this has worked: the demonstrations are getting more numerous and more pointedly political. Considering how limited Prime Minister Vladimir Putin’s political repertoire is, using force against the protesters cannot be far from his thoughts now.

So it is not surprising that the Russian government would refuse to back the Arab League’s peace plan for Syria: Putin’s identification with President Bashar al-Assad has never been stronger. And the bizarre insistence of Sergey Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, that the Security Council resolution place part of the blame for the violence in Syria with the opposition there can be read as a warning of sorts to the opposition here, in Russia.

http://latitude.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/to-the-people-of-syria/

49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
To the People of Syria by Masha Gessen in Moscow; " I am writing to say I am sorry" (Original Post) tabatha Feb 2012 OP
nice to see this, the Russians HAVE been inspired and the corrupt officials in Russia know it and JI7 Feb 2012 #1
Way to go, Masha! Power to the Russian people! Zalatix Feb 2012 #2
K&r nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #3
Masha Gessen is not even a Russian citizen. She may has been born in USSR, Fool Count Feb 2012 #4
Did you read to the bottom? tabatha Feb 2012 #5
Which is totally besides the point. No unelected person has standing to apologize on behalf of a stevenleser Feb 2012 #6
What "quality"? Her "reasoning" is a standard neocon claptrap found on screens and pages Fool Count Feb 2012 #7
Her 'reasoning' is also that of anonymous. Are you going to throw them under the bus too? stevenleser Feb 2012 #9
What, did Anonymous also claim that most Russian people hate Putin and want Assad deposed? Fool Count Feb 2012 #10
She's not a western journalist. She's a Muscovite. pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #11
Napoleon was a "Muscovite" for the whole month in 1812. So? Fool Count Feb 2012 #14
Once again, S L O W L Y, 35 years in Russia, 10 in U.S. pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #18
Your equating a Moscow correspondent for an american weekly journal to Fool Count Feb 2012 #22
WOW! Your use of propagandist tactics are evident here. I'll leave it at that. pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #24
Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #28
I may have left my comment at that pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #33
Well, I thought again. And then again. Still looks like a "free pass" to me, unless there was Fool Count Feb 2012 #36
Your instructing others on the meaning of 'religionist' is laughable pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #42
Right back at you, pinboy. That's exactly how your stubborn insistence on being wrong looks to me. Fool Count Feb 2012 #44
I love how you try to ignore the parts that destroy your argument. Nice try, but no. nt stevenleser Feb 2012 #12
Well, that clinches it then. I stand humbly in awe of your amazing debating skills. Fool Count Feb 2012 #13
She spent 10 of her 45 years in the U.S., 35 years in Russia, and holds a Russian passport nt pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #8
She holds a US passport too and before getting it she presumably did Fool Count Feb 2012 #23
Seriously? That's your cut-and-paste argument? pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #31
That wasn't so hard. Thank you, Wikipedia. I don't need to rationalize anything, Fool Count Feb 2012 #34
That post certainly lives up to your username :) pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #35
That brilliant point certainly lives up to your so obvious aptitude for discussion. Fool Count Feb 2012 #39
You got killed in this discussion. That's a fact, Jack. pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #46
And locked out of the thread to boot n/t RZM Feb 2012 #47
Thanks, pinboy3niner. It's amazing how those siding with a dictator against civilian protesters pampango Feb 2012 #49
Now I know for sure you're joking RZM Feb 2012 #40
Thank you for pointing out the obvious. Of course, it was not his actual goal, that was just Fool Count Feb 2012 #43
Wrong RZM Feb 2012 #45
I hear Russian spring is beautiful. aquart Feb 2012 #15
For those who are interested in the USSR during WWII, I recommend her this book by her RZM Feb 2012 #16
Thanks I added it to my wish list. tabatha Feb 2012 #19
The people of Russia will speak when they vote next month. David__77 Feb 2012 #17
What an absolute joke RZM Feb 2012 #20
Heh, this is like the whole ideology of "colored revolutions" in a nutshell - Fool Count Feb 2012 #25
Surely you're aware of the state of press freedom in Russia RZM Feb 2012 #26
Of course, I am aware of the state of press freedom in Russia. Fool Count Feb 2012 #30
Absolute. Total. Bullshit. RZM Feb 2012 #32
Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #37
Thankyou, RZM pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #38
In your opinion, did Yeltsin preside over an "authoritarian regime?" David__77 Feb 2012 #27
Of course he did RZM Feb 2012 #29
Fascinating tabatha Feb 2012 #21
Telling. joshcryer Feb 2012 #41
where can we find the arabic version? tiny elvis Feb 2012 #48

JI7

(89,250 posts)
1. nice to see this, the Russians HAVE been inspired and the corrupt officials in Russia know it and
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 01:54 AM
Feb 2012

don't like it.

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
4. Masha Gessen is not even a Russian citizen. She may has been born in USSR,
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:02 AM
Feb 2012

but she left for the US as a child with her parents and she is now an American living in Russia
and working as a Russian correspondent for US News & World Report. She hardly has standing
to apologize on behalf of Russian people to anybody.

tabatha

(18,795 posts)
5. Did you read to the bottom?
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:04 AM
Feb 2012

Masha Gessen is a journalist in Moscow. Her biography of Vladimir Putin, “The Man Without a Face,” will be published March 1.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
6. Which is totally besides the point. No unelected person has standing to apologize on behalf of a
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:05 AM
Feb 2012

country. The issue is not her passport, but her sentiments and the quality of her reasoning.

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
7. What "quality"? Her "reasoning" is a standard neocon claptrap found on screens and pages
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:16 AM
Feb 2012

of every outlet of western MSM. Why does she even feel the need to apologize for actions
of the Russian government? Is she afraid that pro-protest Syrian émigrés will invade and
trash her dacha in the Catskills? Well, then she should be safe now.

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
10. What, did Anonymous also claim that most Russian people hate Putin and want Assad deposed?
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:30 AM
Feb 2012

Because that is the only original point I could extract from her "apology". If they did, then they and Masha are
both wrong. If most Russians wanted to help the Syrian "revolution" to do a regime change in Syria, Russian
commandos would already be in Damascus doing just that and helping Putin's reelection chances. The fact of the
matter is that, while up to half of Russians may be critical of other Putin's policies, over 90% of them agree
with his opposition to Western intervention in the Middle East. That is just a fact and Masha Gessen is just lying.
Kinda par for the course for a western "journalist".

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
18. Once again, S L O W L Y, 35 years in Russia, 10 in U.S.
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:47 AM
Feb 2012

Your equating her time in Russia to a "whole month" is blatant disinformation.

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
22. Your equating a Moscow correspondent for an american weekly journal to
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:53 AM
Feb 2012

a typical Russian citizen is blatant disinformation.

Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #24)

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
33. I may have left my comment at that
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:28 AM
Feb 2012

But if you think you've got a free pass, think again.

My "co-religionists"? I assume you mean my fellow DUers who aren't buying the blatant propaganda you're spewing. Yes, I'm proud to be in their company.

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
36. Well, I thought again. And then again. Still looks like a "free pass" to me, unless there was
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:34 AM
Feb 2012

some deep argument hidden by the jury or otherwise concealed which I missed. That's what
"religionist" means - someone whose convictions are not affected by the lack of rational
arguments.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
42. Your instructing others on the meaning of 'religionist' is laughable
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:55 AM
Feb 2012

Yes, you did miss something. Some of us constantly question our own beliefs. Apparently, you do not do that. You remind me of someone...

Back in the '04 campaign, there were these Swiftboater guys who lied through their teeth. One of them, Jerome Corsi, got on camera a lot. And when his interviewers absolutely debunked his claims, he didn't even blink. He kept repeating his false claims.

Yeah, that's who you remind me of...and if you think you're getting a "free pass" ...you're nuts.

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
23. She holds a US passport too and before getting it she presumably did
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:04 AM
Feb 2012

"absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen". That's just from the Oath of Allegiance all naturalized US citizens are supposed to take. So much for where her true allegiances lie. Unless, she didn't mean it and lied under oath, which would be a whole other
thing entirely.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
31. Seriously? That's your cut-and-paste argument?
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:20 AM
Feb 2012

You're trying too hard to rationalize your biases. Really.

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
34. That wasn't so hard. Thank you, Wikipedia. I don't need to rationalize anything,
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:29 AM
Feb 2012

Masha Gessen does. Comparison with Napoleon was actually more apt than seems obvious -
both he and Masha Gessen considered it their mission to bring western enlightenment and
civilized "liberalism" to unwashed and barbaric Russia. In comparison to this essential similarity,
the fact that Masha Gessen happened to be born in Moscow and is more fluent in Russian is
just purely accidental happenstance.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
46. You got killed in this discussion. That's a fact, Jack.
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 04:06 AM
Feb 2012

Nobody bought your pro-Gaddafi posts on Libya and nobody's buying your pro-Assad BS on Syria. Nobody needs to be "brilliant" to see that.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
49. Thanks, pinboy3niner. It's amazing how those siding with a dictator against civilian protesters
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 07:31 AM
Feb 2012

can accuse the pro-demonstrator side of being "neocon". Something tells me that real "neocons" are quite happy to have dictators control their populations by whatever means necessary as this makes it easier for them to pursue their agenda. Anyone who thinks that "neocons" oppose dictatorships on some lofty principle has a much more positive view of them than I do.

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
40. Now I know for sure you're joking
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:43 AM
Feb 2012

That wasn't Napoleon's aim at all. His goal wasn't to occupy Russia or transform its political/social systems. The goal was to inflict a sound defeat on the Russian army and force the Tsar to accede to his demands to adhere to the Continental System and possibly add to a French-sponsored Polish state incorporating territory that still remained in Russian control.

Comparing Gessen to Napoleon is utterly ridiculous.

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
43. Thank you for pointing out the obvious. Of course, it was not his actual goal, that was just
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:55 AM
Feb 2012

how he rationalize his aggressive expansionism. All aggressors do it the same way since time immemorial.
Just read Caesar's "Gallic wars", he could have been writing about "bringing democracy" to Iraq. It's not
Masha Gessen I am comparing to Napoleon, in case you missed another obvious point, that's her masters,
whose plans for Russia and its people are no less despicable than those of the diminutive emperor himself.

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
45. Wrong
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 04:04 AM
Feb 2012

The US planned to overthrow the Iraqi government, occupy the country, and shepherd into a new system under US tutelage.

That wasn't Napoleon's plan in Russia. His goal was to force a big battle where he would defeat the Tsar's armies and thus force him to accede to his demands. Those demands did not include his ouster. They included adhering to the Continental system and to reconstruct a larger Polish state.

The goal was never to transform the Russian political or social system. It was to use force of arms to get Alexander I to do what he wanted, which was essentially behave the way Alexander had promised to do after Tilsit. When the Tsar showed he wasn't going to do that, Napoleon decided an invasion was necessary to force the matter.

This wasn't regime change. it was using war to attempt to force behavior on a leader who wasn't cooperating.

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
16. For those who are interested in the USSR during WWII, I recommend her this book by her
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:46 AM
Feb 2012
http://www.amazon.com/Ester-Ruzya-Grandmothers-Survived-Hitlers/dp/0385336055/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_3/175-4848793-2162247

It's about her family and their experiences during the war. Definitely worth the time if you have interest in the subject.

David__77

(23,418 posts)
17. The people of Russia will speak when they vote next month.
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:46 AM
Feb 2012

"Orange Revolution" type forces can't even garner low single digits of the vote. Independent polling corroborates this. Someone can live in Moscow but their heart is beating elsewhere.

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
20. What an absolute joke
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:50 AM
Feb 2012

Since when does DU favor authoritarian regimes over liberal intellectuals?

You're right that people will vote. But how free and fair will that vote be? It's kind of hard to have free elections when you don't have a free press, isn't it?

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
25. Heh, this is like the whole ideology of "colored revolutions" in a nutshell -
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:09 AM
Feb 2012

the vote is only considered "free" when pro-american liberals are elected. In all other cases it is just a
pretext for a street protest.

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
26. Surely you're aware of the state of press freedom in Russia
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:13 AM
Feb 2012

It's not good. At least according to international monitoring organizations.

 

Fool Count

(1,230 posts)
30. Of course, I am aware of the state of press freedom in Russia.
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:19 AM
Feb 2012

It is certainly better than that is in the US. At least different and even opposite points of view can
be found in Russian media outlets, and that includes the Syria issue. That is much more than
can be said about the US media where only one point of view, that of the US Government, is
represented.

Response to RZM (Reply #32)

David__77

(23,418 posts)
27. In your opinion, did Yeltsin preside over an "authoritarian regime?"
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:13 AM
Feb 2012

Clinton was all smiles with him, even when he bombed parliament and dissolved the supreme court. No, "authoritarian regimes" are only born when they oppose the US "consensus" an any matter of importance.

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
29. Of course he did
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:17 AM
Feb 2012

I don't think that's really in dispute. He was an autocrat, or at least fancied himself as one.

tabatha

(18,795 posts)
21. Fascinating
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:53 AM
Feb 2012

danie lgene Daniel Hernandez Fascinating. Tom Friedman says Putin needs votes in big arms industry cities, and vetoed UN rez to protect their contracts in #Syria.2 hours ago

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