I agree with you; you made the right choice. I truly feel that we must take care of the people (or children, in this case) who are already here.

How terrible for you...seven miscarriages.

Between seven miscarriages and an abortion of twins,
I am very sad when I think about them all.
But the one daughter I did manage to carry to term means
the world to me, and HOW DARE anyone who has not walked
in my moccasins show up to tell me they know ANY thing about the
choice made in aborting pregnancies.

It's as if some people think it is a flippant choice, like,
"Oh, I think I'll trim my fingernails now..."

How fucking arrogant to assume that
any woman comes to such a decision lightly.

I hope the person who insinuated such has been reprimanded-
No one has the right to cause such pain in recollection of what might be one of the WORST nights of my life, through NO FAULT OF MY OWN.

Thanks for your love and support Peg'o'my'heart.
BHN

I'm glad your daughter has you around!

... I wish you and she well.

It was pretty much deemed a medical impossibility that
I would ever carry a child to term.
But here we are twenty-five years later.
There are some problems medically, but I am a mother weasel, as
she once called me.
A compliment- since mother weasels will stand up to enemies far
greater in size to protect their young.
I am a such a mother.

BHN

I am glad you are able to be here for you daughter. those who could think otherwise are not worth your notice.

I also understand. I almost died from bleeding to death when my baby couldn't hold on and I was determined to keep the pregnancy. I WOULD not abort because I HAD no child and almost died. You did the right thing because your baby needed you. God bless you and I hope that your child gets well.

I probably would have bled to death too.
I was so thrilled with the thought of twins, younger siblings
for my daughter- I had seen them on sonogram- was making plans
and then the same thing that happened with all my other pregnancies
happened again- the bleeding, the cramping- the desperate thought that some how
I could control what was happening through shear will power.
I could not and the termination saved my life and gave my existing child
the mother she needs today.
Thank you for the good wishes for my daughter-
it is a process, not going so well at the moment, but
again, I dread to think where she would be without me through her illness.
I was not meant to die twenty years ago- clearly.
and the pro lifers can STFU in my mind.
I don't need to be reminded of the pain of losing my twins due
to medical conditions beyond my control.
BHN (Mama to Mama: )

That thread that was hidden brought up some very strong emotions
in me. Deep sadness at the loss of my twins.
It also made me very angry- and I hope the person who posted it
has stayed long enough to learn that they DON'T know half as much as they
think they do.
I do appreciate you hugs, because I really need them at the moment.
BHN

In my opinion, no one has the right to sit in judgment of anyone else's decisions regarding whether or not to carry a pregnancy to term. Abortion should always be available as an option because life is complex and imperfect and is seldom a freakin' Disney fairy tale, as much as some people would like it to be.

Best of everything to you and your daughter, BeHereNow.

And the judgement in the post that was hidden, wisely so,
is what prompted me to start this thread.
Abortion is sometimes a medical necessity.
And the thugs in the pro life one note chorus need
to be aware of that.
They would take a mother from a child who needs her
for the sake of ignorant ideology?
Not much pro life in that, is there?
BHN

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's health issues...very best wishes.

It just goes to demonstrate ( the poster who shall not be named)
is part of a movement where rationality is not present.
And thank you for your good wishes for my daughter.
We are working on it- together, because I am alive today.
I am hopeful; we have always managed to find a solution-
although this situation makes me feel powerless, I am convinced
there is a way.
And I will not give up- ever.
That's the kind of mother I am.
BHN

what your choices were in the circumstances. What matters is that it was your choice to make - and anyone else's opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

All the best to you and your daughter.

and realize there are circumstances in pregnancies which
demand intervention.
You are correct, reproductive choice is non negotiable- especially when
life threatening to the child, mother or any other people affected by
the choice to be considered.
Terminating my twins was not an easy choice- but it was a life saving choice for
the 5 year old child I had at the time.
BHN

I know this wasn't easy to post & I also know it brings back waves of heartache. Much respect for posting this.

I've endured great loss, too. I understand the heartache. Many, many hugs for you, and your daughter.

So aptly put.
When I read the post that is now hidden- my heart swelled and the grief returned
as though it had happened yesterday.
I will not tolerate this ignorant view of women's health and the
choices we face.
Although I don't know your particular losses- may I just say, woman to woman-
I am here for you, should you want to talk about it.
Thank you for the hugs as this has been a very painful evening, emotionally and otherwise.
May I return them to you?

BHN

What a right wing extremist fails to see is that women's lives have value. It's as simple as that, really.

While your story is dramatic and a Catholic hospital would undoubtedly have let both you and the fetus die, we always need to remember that even for an 18 year old who doesn't want a child because she wants to stay in school, forced pregnancy is life threatening.

People today are cavalier about pregnancy. It's just a natural thing, they say. You don't even need to go to a hospital.

That is true for most women in most pregnancies.

But if your pregnancy is extremely risky and you already have one or more children, you need to have a choice and consider it carefully.

In my opinion, you were wise to make the decision you did, BeHereNow.

And thanks for telling your story.

I told it because it needs to be told.
Women MUST have the choice, especially in life threatening
situations.

The poster, who surely has been silenced by now, I would hope-
NEEDS to know that no choice to abort is taken lightly.

Extensive medical, spiritual and emotional consultations
accompany EVERY abortion these days.

Although I grieve for all the children I did not have, again through
no fault of my own- I trust in each and every situation, the universe
had a plan. Clearly, in my case, I have a daughter who needs me NOW.
If I had not listened to my doctor and tried to proceed with the twins,
I might have died- and then where would my daughter be today?

The attempt to paint every abortion, woman and doctor into
the X-tian Taliban view is not acceptable to me.
I will fight them any way I can- If my story helps someone else,
then my children who did not make it did not die in vain.

BHN

I am sure I could find a doctor who'd tell me I am ugly too.

It sounds like the doctor was urging you to have an abortion. Not providing you with options, but suggesting one particular option. My natural reaction would be to push back, to be contrary, to want to find a better option. I scoff at the idea that I could die. "I am a warrior, I will not die easily." I find that the medical profession does not always know what they are talking about. I had an old dentist tell me I HAD to have a root canal for a front tooth that was dead. I refused. Okay, mostly for reasons of cowardice, but also because I was not experiencing problems, and if it ain't broken ... That was over 15 years ago, and so far, so good.

I also had the same dentist (and another dentist who just removed them without my permission) tell me that some root tips needed to be extracted. Oh, it was pain and misery and maybe death from infection if I didn't get them out. Bah. They were under my gums causing no problems for over five years until a new dentist was taking out a nearby tooth, was surprised to find root tips in the gum, and took them out because, after all, doctor knows best. Worse yet, he then charged me for an operation I had not authorized. I shoulda refused to pay, but I was kinda doped up, and not capable of much yelling or protesting at the time.

Then there was the incompetent vet. Friday I take my dog in, with fairly obvious symptoms of kidney failure. They take a blood sample, but then, oh, their machine is not working, so come back on Monday. Me, at the time foolishly trusting these educated 'experts' to take care of my dog, foolishly agree to wait until Monday. Then on Monday they tell me her reading was very, very high, and maybe I should have her put to sleep.

So I am thinking "what the hell?" If she was that bad, then treatment should have started on Friday. If they, with their degrees and experience, could not know that it might have been very serious, they should have sent me to another vet with a working machine, shipped the sample out or something. You don't say that a test can wait for three days and then come back with, "well the patient is practically dead, just finish her off." Instead, I spent about $300 to put her on an IV for three days in the hopes of giving her perhaps another year of life. She seemed to get better, but then relapsed (after I visited her on day two. I sometimes wonder about that. After her son died, I got another puppy to be her companion. One that she never really care for too much. So much so that I got another puppy, a male, in January and I was going to get rid of the first puppy. Anyway, I took this first puppy to visit her at the vet and that night she took a turn for the worse. I sorta wonder, when I showed up with Dot that she thought "well, he has already replaced me" and lost her will to live.)

She was very bad when I picked her up on Wednesday, and again the vets were urging 'put her down'. But she got better under my care, and instead I rented a van, so she could enjoy a few more rides and took her to visit my niece and brother, because she always loved them. Milk was the only thing she could keep down, and that in only 3 ounce doses, so I gave her regular meals of milk every could of hours. I have had several vets tell me that cows' milk is no good for dogs, but I have never had a dog who didn't love milk. She lived for another 8 or nine days after that, before dying of natural causes. I figured I would have to put her down if she got really bad, but it never came to that.

Anyway, these may seem like pointless tales, but I am saying that I do not always listen to the doctors, and regret sometimes the times I do trust them.

What is done is done, but your story does not make me say "hurrah for abortion".. Maybe it was for the best, and probably I, who wimped out on a root canal, would not be as brave about my own possible death as I tell myself I would be. (more foolishly optimistic than brave) Maybe it was accidental wording, but I don't like that doctor sort of pushing abortion.

And before anyone asks, why yes I did get a medical degree out of a CrackerJacks box.

She was the lead physician in a prominent women's OB/GYN facility-
a ground breaking OB in discovering a drug that stopped premature
labor, the cause of all my other miscarriages.
SHE is the reason I have the one child I have now.
She stopped my premature labor and
I was able to carry to full term-

Somehow, I do not think she would have advised termination
without serious medical consideration.

To this day, I give her full credit for allowing me to carry one child to term.

And seriously, do root canals and veterinary care really belong in this discussion?
I am discussing human life.
I am fairly certain you are not a woman and have never been pregnant
or dealt with a sick child.

Would I be wrong in that assumption?
BHN

BHN

My opinion and my experiences don't count.

I guess I have been declared an unperson.

Too bad my mother didn't have an abortion, eh? Then I would not be here to prattle with my irrelevant opinions and stories.

As a man, I might have taken care of a sick child. In fact as a person incapable of having children (because I am so darned ugly, outside, and apparently inside too) my dogs are as close as I will ever get to having children. When my seven year old "grandson" suddenly died, it felt like a horse had kicked me in the stomach. For three or four days after that, food literally had no taste for me. I'd force myself to eat, because I knew I needed food even though I did not feel particularly hungry and the food tasted like cardboard.

But there I go again, pretending like the feelings of an unperson actually matter.

IMHO this thread was not the time or place to be expressing your distrust of the medical establishment and saying what you would have done if you had been in the OP's shoes.

Because... you weren't in her shoes, and you really came off as judgmental, even if that was not your intention.

Please know I did not mean to invalidate your relationships with fur people.
I too have deep and emotional involvements with my fur tribe.

I guess I felt as if you thought I should have gotten a second opinion based on
unrelated topics... my insensitivity and I am so sorry.

My fur people are my children too- I think perhaps entrusted to me for all the
babies I lost- sort of a way of the universe saying, sorry that other stuff ended so badly-
here are some other babies that need your care.

I was insensitive to your intention.
Please forgive me.


BHN

shoes, you will never understand her pain.

but this idea that doctor's suggest to women they should have abortions just for the heck of it... it's kind of grating. Anti-choice advocates say or elude to this all the time. It's like a doctor skips into his or her office, rubs their hands together maniacally and says, "Let's see how many women I can force to have abortions today." They also seem to think women who have abortions do the same thing. It's disingenuous.

I've had a couple of bad doctors, you can tell they're bad doctor's off the bat usually. I would think any rational human being can recognize this fact for themselves and if they feel the need for a second opinion would get one. Sometimes though, doctor's actually suggest medical procedures that are good for their patient--they may be hard suggestions for the patient to consider but I see no joy for doctor's having to deliver bad news.

I don't think BHN's story was supposed to make you say "hurrah for abortion." I think her story was to demonstrate that sometimes, abortions are medically necessary and the anti-choicer's want to stop those as well. They'd rather children already born into this world be motherless, than save the mother's life. That's sick and unnecessary.

who flatly refuse to believe there are such things as life threatening pregnancies and medically necessary abortions.

First, this isn't about you and your Herculean resolve.

Second, I had a lengthy post here explaining sepsis and lactose intolerance and demanding clairvoyance from vets. But then I realized I had fallen into your trap and was making it about you. So I've deleted that and will just repeat, this isn't about you.

... and that was just as it should have been and it is how it should remain for all women.

Informed choice is the RIGHT of every woman in
the matter of pregnancy.
Especially when it is life threatening to the mother or the child.
BHN

...or perhaps, yours and your family's.

I'm sure that the choice was agonizing. I'm sure that your child's agony would have been worse without you there.

Of course, little ricky santorum would say that you (or your family) should have "made the best of a bad situation". Of course, little ricky santorum is an idiot as well as a little shit.

I wish you nothing but the best.

PEACE!

I empathize for you and your situation, but it bothers me that *any* woman feels the need to share her very personal story with anyone in order to justify her decision.

Here's a blurb I have posted elsewhere on this topic:

What if we stopped focusing on the number of abortions and instead focused on the women themselves?

Numbers mean nothing without context. If the 1.21 million abortions that took place in 2005 (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html#1) represent the number of women who needed abortions (and in my opinion, if a woman decides she needs an abortion, then she does), as well as the many women who chose to terminate pregnancies that they very much wanted but could not afford to carry to term, then that number is too high. The work of reducing the number of abortions, therefore, would entail creating an authentically family-friendly society, where women would have the support they need to raise their families, whatever forms they took. That could include eliminating the family caps in TANF, encouraging unionization of low-wage workers, reforming immigration policies and making vocational and higher education more accessible.

On the other hand, if those 1.21 million abortions represent only the women who could access abortion financially, geographically or otherwise, then that number is too low. Yes, too low. If that’s the case, then what is an appropriate response? How do we best support women and their reproductive health? Do we dare admit that increasing the number of abortions might be not only good for women’s health, but also moral and just?

What if we stopped focusing on the number of abortions and instead focused on the women themselves? Much of the work of the reproductive health, rights and justice movements would remain the same. We would still advocate for legislation that helps our families. We would still fight to protect abortion providers and their staffs from verbal harassment and physical violence. What would change, however, is the stigma and shame. By focusing on supporting women’s agency and self-determination, rather than judging the outcomes of that agency, we send a powerful message. We say that we trust women. We say we will not use them and their experiences as pawns in a political game. We say we care about women and want them to have access to all the information, services and resources necessary to make the best decisions they can for themselves and their families. That is at the core of reproductive justice. Not reducing the number of abortions. Safe – yes. Legal– absolutely. Rare – not the point.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/04/26/safe-legal-rare-another-perspective

And anybody that thinks differently is an ass.

I want to hug you. (I went through one, and it was super painful.) To take your doctor's advice and choose to abort after all that must have been so difficult. But I'm glad you are here, healthy, and still able to take care of your child that you so obviously love.

I can't imagine the pain that you went through in all your years trying to get pregnant.

that would question your decision regardless of their position on the issue.

NOBODY.



I wish you and yours well.