... and I say this as a veteran, is that you have to contribute and put in your time to gain the benefit.

Were you really in the military?

Otherwise, you are on your own (with regard to healthcare) once you leave the military.

The VA eligibility you get after 90 days.
The above poster is not wrong.

You can be a veteran and not be eligible for Tricare unless you've done 20 years or were an officer who did at least 7 - and retired reservists need to wait until they're 60 (remember to start application at age 59 1/2!).

I'm a retired reservist; I still have 5 3/4 years left to hang on until I can apply for Tricare. However, with changes in the rules, next year I'll be eligible to apply Tricare dental; because of the abysmal understanding of the need for dental care in this country and a lot of people were getting health complications from dental problems, TPTB decided it was okay to start dental eligibility early for reservists.

I'm partially disabled, but don't have service-related disabilities of significant amount to automatically be eligible for VA benefits. I also have access to employer-provided insurance and COBRA. Both of these reduces my eligibility to any VA medical services other than basic emergency/urgent-care type walk-in service. If I stumble in the door and fall down on the floor, clutching my DD214 in one hand and my retired reservist ID card in the other, they can't send me off to a local hospital.
According to the local VA, I have to be unemployed for a year before I can apply and then wait to be processed (retiree has less importance than those who are coming back disabled) to get the VA single-payer services. So I might as well hang on to get Tricare.

Haele

People on Tricare will see increases of $1,500 a year or more under the new budget plan proposed by the Obama administration.

This includes new enrollment fees/yearly fees, higher deductibles, and significantly higher prescription costs, with continued rises scheduled for the future.

Note: The plan specifically talks of putting costs more on a par with those of private insurance. This for people who signed up to serve in the military and have their families uprooted every year or two over decades and family members split apart and sent to dangerous locations....with the promise that free health care would be part of the compensation for that service.

Details of changes here:

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/02/military-tricare-costs-would-jump-in-budget-plan-022312w/

Military advocacy groups said they understand the budget constraints facing DoD but feel this proposal “passes the buck” to beneficiaries.

“We take issue with the Pentagon’s decision to raise fees for beneficiaries, relying on them to pay for the budget when it’s the department’s responsibility to increase efficiencies and cut their own costs,” said Kathy Beasley, health care committee co-chairwoman for the Military Coalition, an umbrella group of more than 30 national military associations.

The groups also are concerned about the Pentagon’s call to link fee hikes to retirement income and index future increases to the medical inflation rate, which tends to rise faster than overall inflation or the annual cost-of-living adjustment in military retired pay....When lawmakers last year approved the first fee increases since Tricare was created in the mid-1990s, they limited future hikes to the retiree COLA. The most recent COLA increase was 3.6 percent; medical inflation typically rises by 6 percent or 7 percent a year.

“These new increases, coming on top of last year’s changes, are a classic ‘bait and switch’ that would raise beneficiary fees by as much as $1,500 a year or more,” said retired Vice Adm. Norb Ryan, president of the Military Officers Association of America.



Link to full White House proposal:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitehouse.gov%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fomb%2Fbudget%2Ffy2012%2Fassets%2Fjointcommitteereport.pdf

is Medicare. If they covered the 20% copay, it would be perfect and doable by eliminating all the privatized elements of it like the privatized Medicare Advantage and prescription drug plan give aways to insurance and pharmaceutical companies. I would like to see it extended to all Americans, again doable with a simple law, lowering the eligibility age to zero. Those premiums given to insurance companies by employers and unions could go into Medicare instead to fund it and it would cost half as much as those companies and unions spend on health insurance today.

only $8 per persecription, per month. My glasses cost me $80, my hearing aids are free. I won't even have to buy batteries for the aids. They are free for life.

Of course, getting control of the House and Senate won't help because the Democrats are controlled by lobbyists just like Republicans are. That's why single payer insurance wasn't even proposed.

... we have to primary out as many of those money-grubbing Dinos as we can.

We need structured campaigns requiring equal time and equal numbers of ads for viable candidates.

We need constitutional amendments - a corporation is not a person, money is not speech.

See MoveToAmend.org, for example.

To get these, we need informed voters, not necessarily only Democrats, and honorable, patriotic politicians. The Republican party is a subsidiary of corporate America, so yes, Republican politicians need to be removed, and yes, blue dog Democrats.

We need fewer religious fanatic politicians partly because corporations and politicians can manipulate the pants off of religious voters.

We need informed voters willing to do some critical thinking rather than automatic partyline voting and right wing single issue voting.

rec ^^^^^^ Everything you said!

"The Audacity of Middle-of-the-Road"

...audacity of being impressed with one's own nonsense.

Krugman: The Obamacare Shock
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022907399

Your original post was entitled,
"Wow, check out this comment on existing U.S. single-payer system"
like its the first time you've heard about this,
and then follow with clips form 2013 testifying about how effective these Single Payer Systems are,
like it the first time you've ever heard about this.

My natural response is,
"Well, No shit, Sherlock"

Back in 2009, when newly elected President Obama was campaigning for his "Uniquely American (private/corporate) Solution",
and telling America that we couldn't have Single Payer because we would have to
"build it from scratch",
some of us already KNEW we had Single Payer Up & Running,
and posted about it on DU and elsewhere.
I even sent The White House a hard copy letter in case he didn't know about Medicare or The VA.

I just have to laugh at someone showing up four years after the fight and saying,
WOW. Did you know we already HAVE effective Single Payer Systems Up & Running?

Where were you and the NY Times when it might have made a difference?

"No make NoSense."

...I get it. You're brilliant!

especially staying on topic and responding with relevant comments,
so I went Pre-School in the title line to give you a break.

"Well, its obvious you've been struggling for while, especially staying on topic and responding with relevant comments,
so I went Pre-School in the title line to give you a break."

...the only ones "struggling" are the anti-Obama vultures. Progress keeps happening despite them. They can't stand the thought that the health care law is working to help millions of people. They cannot stand the thought of President Obama getting credit for anything.

Anyone who stands up to support him or undercut their arguments finds a knife in their backs.

To that point and your previous comment:

I like the guy.

I AM Anti-Republican Policy,
and have been for a long time.

Consistency is easy when one is Policy Oriented.
BTW, did you go back and read my post from early 2009?
Wasn't that back when you were parading around DU selling the Affordable Care Act
BECAUSE of the Public Option that would keep them honest and open the door for Single Payer?
I've always marveled how quickly you pivoted to the Public Option isn't important anyway.

That takes TALENT and MOTIVATION.
I could never do something like THAT.

Medicaid IS a 3rd Class system with 3rd Class health care service,
but it IS something.
Its nowhere near a Medicare Expansion, but I'm not a Purist.
Medicaid Expansion IS a step in the right direction.
That was the only "Democratic" part of the bill.
You won't find a single word of mine on DU criticizing the Medicaid Expansion.
I have been consistent.

We WILL have to wait until 2014 to see how effectively it is implemented,
or how much it is modified by the individual states.
Right now, it changes every week, and is really anyone's guess at how effective it will be.
Leaving the Medicaid expansion as OPTIONAL,
and under the control of the individual states is a recipe for chaos.



Consistency is a sign of an honest broker,
and it frees ones self from those creepy situations of trying to make excuses and rambling rationalizations for being AGAINST something when a Republican does it,
but FOR it when a Democrat does it.
Don't you think?

"I am OK with the Medicaid Expansion. Medicaid IS a 3rd Class system with 3rd Class health care service,
but it IS something."

...includes a number of excellent provisions.

Obama budget is a disaster for drugmakers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022670043

STUDY: Medicaid Provides Better Insurance Than Private Coverage And Medicare
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/05/01/1948081/medicaid-provides-better-insurance/

"That was the only 'Democratic' part of the bill."

Actually, that's inaccurate. The health care law also strengthened Medicare and extended free preventive care to seniors for the first time ever.

Lets take a qucik look at the Class Separations of the Affordable Care Act:

1st Class:
For the RICH only
This is who the ACA has helped the most so far.
Before the ACA, Americans with children afflicted with PECs (Pre-Existing Conditions) couldn't BUY health Insurance at any price.
NOW, thanks to the ACA everyone with a disposable income HIGH enough to afford the pricey Buy Ins for these exclusive policies can NOW buy insurance.

While Insurance Corporation can no longer exclude you for a PEC,
they CAN and DO exclude those lower classes who don't have sufficient income to BUY their way in.

The same applies to wealth parents with children.
If you have enough MONEY, you can PAY to have your children included on your insurance policies.


2nd Class:
This is primarily for Upper Middle Class Americans who get their insurance through their employers. This class is shrinking, and will soon merge with the Working Classes into The Exchanges. Currently, they can still find adequate health care, but that clock is ticking.
Top One Percent Captured 121 Percent Of All Income Gains
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/top-one-percent-income-gains_n_2670455.html

Corporate Profits Hit Record High While Worker Wages Hit Record Low
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc


3rd Class:
The Exchanges
This is for Americans who still have a job, but can no longer afford Health Insurance.
Estimates vary, but most prediction indicate that this will affect 40 Million to 70 Million Americans by 2014.

They will be forced to BUY Health Insurance from For Profit corporations on The Exchange, which will vary from State to State.
The fact that each state will run their own "Exchange" guarantees that Americans in THIS class (which will be most of us sooner or later) will stay divided and never have a collective, unified voice to demand fairness from the 50 individual exchanges (Smart, hunh?)
Each Exchange will be further divided into 3 different groups according to Economic Class:
1)The Gold Class, which can afford to pay for Gold Insurance.
2)The Silver Class, for those who can afford Silver Insurance
3)The Bronze Class, for....well, you know.

As far as I can tell, the much vaunted subsidies will only apply for the Bronze Class (Junk) Insurance.
So that makes 6 different levels of "coverage", depending on how much money you make.

And in 7th Place, last & least,
is those who qualify for the Medicaid Expansion.


Aren't you a little embarrassed that THIS is the best we can do?

Don't the Class Distinctions bother you just a little bit?

Do you have any idea how this "Uniquely American Solution"
compares to civilized countries with classless Health CARE for everyone?

I don't see HOW we can "Fix It Later".
The MANDATE and The Exchanges (run BY Health Insurance Corps) are the ONLY solid pieces of legislation that came out of ObamaCare,
and The Mandate has been upheld by the Supreme Court.
Everything else is regulatory, and subject to capricious changes.

We are going to be stuck with the MANDATE to BUY Health Insurance from For Profit Corporations for a long, LONG time.
The "subsidies" don't really go to Americans,
but directly to the Health Insurance Cartel.
An Open Door to the Public Treasury for the most useless Corporations on the face of our planet.


I really "hope" I'm wrong,
but I see MILLIONS of angry Americans in 2014,
and a potential nightmare that may produce a Republican Sweep in 2016.
All the Republicans have to do is say,
"Yep. We voted against it."

"The entire Class Based System of Health CARE delivery is an abomination to any Enlightened Democracy"

...LBJ be damned for ruining an "enlightened Democracy" by establishing Medicaid.

LBJ be PRAISED
for establishing a National, Non-Profit, Publicly Owned, Government Administered Health Care System that was designed to be expanded to include ALL Americans, Cradle to Grave,
with immediate emergency assistance to those who needed it the most (Medicaid).

I don't think he would have approved of the ACA.
That would have been an insult to the intrinsic Democratic Party egalitarianism as outlined in the his Great Society.

"LBJ be PRAISED
for establishing a National, Non-Profit, Publicly Owned, Government Administered Health Care System that was designed to be expanded to include ALL Americans, Cradle to Grave,
with immediate emergency assistance to those who needed it the most (Medicaid). "

..."be PRAISED" for establishing Medicaid, "a 3rd Class system with 3rd Class health care service,
but it IS something"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2908908

"I don't think he would have approved of the ACA."

Oh, I'm certain LBJ would have approved of a law that expands Medicaid, strengthens Medicare and extends free preventive care to seniors for the first time ever, expands community health centers and lays the foundation for other progressive changes.

Rahm uncharacteristically let the truth slip out while trying to ingratiate himself to his much beloved Monied Interests.

"And then there is THIS little tidbit from one of your kind of Democrats.

Rahm uncharacteristically let the truth slip out while trying to ingratiate himself to his much beloved Monied Interests. "

...exactly does Rahm have to do with LBJ and Medicaid? You don't like Rahm, and I don't give a shit what he says. I value other opinions (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022907399).

Stay on topic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2909693
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2909774

It is YOU who keeps wandering off into the wilderness to avoid the
Inconvenient Truths.

If you care to go back an re-read this thread,
you will see that I brought up the success of Medicare while YOU were expressing your Shock and Awe at discovering that we already has several successful,
efficient Single Payer Systems Up & Running in the USA,
and that, contrary to what President Obama said,
we did NOT have to build them from scratch!
Many of us pointed that out in 2009,
as my link above in Post #8 of this thread demonstrates.

The Audacity of "Middle of the Road"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=458355&mesg_id=458381

So, here we are,
back at the beginning,
after your many diversions, tap dances,
and other amusing attempts to wander Off Topic,
and I'm asking the same question:
"Why are you so shocked to find out that we already HAVE successful Single Payer Systems in the USA?
We told you so in 2009.
Why didn't YOU and the NY Times listen back when it might have helped America?


Checkmate!

"It is YOU who keeps wandering off into the wilderness to avoid the Inconvenient Truths."

..."inconvenient truth": http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2916186

"If you care to go back an re-read this thread,
you will see that I brought up the success of Medicare while YOU were expressing your Shock and Awe at discovering that we already has several successful,
efficient Single Payer Systems Up & Running in the USA,
and that, contrary to what President Obama said,
we did NOT have to build them from scratch!
Many of us pointed that out in 2009,
as my link above in Post #8 of this thread demonstrates."

You called Medicaid a "3rd Class system" and then in a subsequent comment called it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2908908


"a National, Non-Profit, Publicly Owned, Government Administered Health Care System that was designed to be expanded to include ALL Americans, Cradle to Grave, with immediate emergency assistance to those who needed it the most (Medicaid)."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2909693

Your entire purpose is obfuscation, personal attacks and being dismissive of any the President does...until caught in your own circular nonsense.

the Warrens and others who are part of Obama's faith and ideology. That was the Day of Warren. The day many of us knew we'd been sold out.

as long as it suits your purposes.

I am sure you will feel the same when someone bullies or physically intimidates someone important to you because they think it suits THEIR purposes.

When it comes to policy that will affect the lives of MILLIONS of Working Class Americans,
THEN I want a Junk Yard Dog that will STAND UP and FIGHT the other RICH Bullies
already running Washington.
I am TIRED of LOSING.

The Bully always steals the Lunch Money from the nice kids
until someone Kicks His ASS.

So YES.
Gimme that Junk Yard Dog that will FIGHT for MY interests in Washington.
I no longer care about whether he/she is "nice".
I care about The POLICY that comes out of the meat grinder.

Thank You, LBJ,
for FIGHTING for Medicare/Medicaid, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and The Great Society.
An anonymous poster on the Internet 50 years later thinks you were a Big Bully.
I think your were a hero.

Politics in a Democracy is about voting, not hitting or physically intimidating people.

I must have missed that.

but inserting irrelevant and unsupported comments?
That part?
No, I didn't miss it.
I gave it all the respect it deserved.

I see what your problem is.
You think that LBJ is the "bully" in those photos.
You are wrong.

Those are photos of LBJ Standing UP to the bullies who worked for the RICH,
who didn't think your grandmother should be able to go to the doctor when she was sick,
and who didn't think that minorities should have Equal Rights,
and who didn't think that those American with dirt under their fingernails deserved a break.
THAT is who LBJ Stood Up against.

Thank You, LBJ.
My mother and grandmother appreciate your courage.
President Obama thanks you too,
because without your courage and leadership in standing up to the REAL
"Bullies", even those in your own Party,
HE would NOT be President Obama today!

You think this is some kind of game. It is not.
This is WAR... Life or Death,
and no points are awarded for Playing Nice.
QED: 2008 -2013

If a "bully" is standing between you and your wife getting into the Hospital for an emergency, are you going to play nice?
If so, better not let your wife read this thread.

I will continue to fight for what is right,
and top protect those I love.
Of course, you can continue to do whatever it is you are doing.

No. I didn't miss anything.
I was THERE!


[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

I didn't change any meaning of what you posted, thus no strawman. You celebrated LBJ's physical intimidation and bullying of lawmakers.

You literally posted photographic proof that this is what you were celebrating.

I can post links to various logical fallacy explanation sites so you can learn what they mean.

...and then attacking your own fabricated fantasy
is indeed a Strawman Logical Fallacy.


Nowhere did I "Condone Bullying".
THAT is YOUR mis-characterization,
complete with a word chosen to elicit a negative emotional response.

And I certainly never condoned "hitting".
THAT is your complete fabrication inserted to firm up your weak Strawman.
The fact that you chose to insert a complete fabrication indicates that you were well aware of how weak your response was, and desperately clutched at a total fabrication to somehow make your position appear to be more legitimate.

I DO condone Standing UP to Bullies,
and that is a very different thing.

Bullies are NEVER advocates for the weak, defenseless, and disenfranchised.
THAT is who LBJ Stood Up FOR,
and trying to characterize him as a "Bully" shows that you have either:

*a very distorted and unrealistic understanding of Politics and "Bullies"
(much like your understanding of "Strawmen&quot
OR
*you are not an honest broker of information.

Pick one.

Here are some sites that explain "Strawman" and other Logical Fallacies in simple terms that you can understand:

Strawman Logical Fallacy
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

And here is a pretty good list of other Fallacies you should review to avoid future embarrassment:
List of fallacies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

Cheerio!

You were celebrating the physical intimidation and bullying of lawmakers by LBJ.

Once again, no strawman

Your pictures say it all http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2909693

You interpret the photos of LBJ to theorize that in your opinion
I must condone "bullying",
and use your personal speculation to justify an Ad Hominem Personal Attack?
Now THAT is hilarious!

Ever take a Rorschach Test, Steven Leser?

How does a photo of some Standing UP to the Bully differ from a photo OF a Bully?
LBJ STOOD UP for the weak, poor, elderly, and disenfranchised.
He literally saved MILLIONS of lives of people BY standing UP to the Bullies.
Your insistent support and protection FOR The Bullies is disturbing.
You should be ashamed as well as embarrassed.

And, yes. Your speculations, mis-characterizations, mis-representations, "photo interpretations", and outright fabrications ARE Strawmen by definition...no matter how many times you stamp your foot and insist they aren't.

In fact,
your unwarranted and unsupportable Personal Attacks,
Name Calling,
Distortions,
Insults,
and INSISTING that YOU know what I condone better than I know,
are typical BEHAVIORS of a Bully.
Are you working through some childhood "issues"?

I will leave you where we started:
Politics ain't Bean Bag.

When a Bully comes after you or your family,
you had better Stand Up for Yourself.

It is deranged to think that this monstrous muddle of endless variability in benefits depending on one's location and income is in any way progress. It is depraved to convince oneself that "Gold/Silver/Bronze" levels of coverage depending on income - with, of course, those least able to afford any out-of-pocket at all having the worst coverage - is in any way moral or ethical.

Can there be anything more morbidly hilarious than "Liberals" convincing themselves that enshrining the stranglehold of for-profit health "care" in the universally - and justly - detested vampire for-profit insurance corps is a good thing? That quality and availability of care based on class is a good thing?

I'm not surprised that the OP chose not to respond to the point of this post, and instead went back to "Look Over There!" mode.

The idea in this country that single payor healthcare is "socialist" is god damn idiotic.

What a bonus.

We pay more on the average than any other country for health care. Congressional members has very good health care, they just don't want this for the rest of us. National health has been proven to work, our Congress has proven unable to work.

if you want to compare health care systems cross-nationally
the VA-Tricare system is very similar to the socialized system in the UK,
where (nearly) all the employees work for the government, and all the
facilities are govt. property.
The Canadian system closely resembles Medicare. The govt. is the
"single payer" for medical care provided to everyone by mostly private providers.
Either system is vastly superior to what the US has now.
Check out TR Reid's "Healing of America"

I have always been able to go to the hospital or clinic of my choice and be seen anytime. A few weeks ago I had an allergic reaction to something (we think food) and my face blew up like a balloon (I kid you not). It happened to be a holiday (Buddha's Birthday) and I had to go the the emergency room. I spend three hours there, had an EKG, three x-rays, and a nice big dose of Benadryl and it only cost about $80.

The big problem is the system is running deficits due to the increasing amount of older people. People are living into their 80's and 90's comfortably. My FIL is 82 and still gets around well (he's a great guy except when he's downing soju, then he just gets too loud and obnoxious).

This is a few years old, but it explains the system in detail:

http://www.coopami.org/en/countries/countries_partners/south_korea/social_protection/pdf/south_korean_health_care_system.pdf

So much so that I have always assumed you work in the health care for profit industry. I asked once what biz you were in and you made a huge stink over it, since then, 2009 or so, I have assumed you work for Cigna or something. Why would I not assume that?

That's somewhere in chapter 14, I think, in A People's History of the United States, in which he discusses the widespread strikes and deep Labor unrest of about the first half of the 20th century.