much better life WITH a vaccine. I had the vaccine, my school mates had the vaccine. We also had the Whooping cough vaccine.

These things killed children in the most horrifying way imaginable. There is NO proof that the vaccines children receive contributes to Autism. None. Nada. Nothing.

Wish he knew better because this overshadows a lot of the good he does.

Doctors are diagnosing this way too much. Sorry- I know that is not a popular view but its the God's honest truth. Autism is a real problem but its prevalence is WAY overstated. Unlike Polio, Chicken Pox, and Measles.

My son is autistic and I know other autistic people. It is a real neurological diagnosis and it is as prevelent as they say.

competing diagnosis. They follow a medical diagnosis procedure that does not often account for the social aspects of the problems of Autism. They do not have the resources in their offices for that. Nor do they often consult with school personnel for data to support their diagnosis. I have seen cases where they completely miss the signs and others where it is merely a figment of their imagination.

specialist. We were sent to the UW Autism Center, a part of the Center on Human Development and Disability. There they did an extensive test and diagnosed him on the autism spectrum.

Believing that Physicians always get a diagnosis 100% correct whether its Autism or anything else is stupid.

I've read that some think it is overdiagnosed because some kids get better overtime. People get better over time with lots of conditions. My mother in law was diagnosed with diabetes, changed what she ate and then was no longer diabetic. Does that mean she was never diabetic? No. Some kids do get better. My son has made huge leaps since his first diagnosis. His therapists at school and his special education teachers had a lot to with that. But even now after all those significant leaps he still exhibits autistic behaviors, socially, academically, and neurologically. So, just because some of these kids get better does not mean the initial diagnosis was wrong.

I stated that I think that, in my (professional) experience Doctors are diagnosing this too often. But since you seem to need have the last word, have at it.

He has a fucked up voice because he messed with Mister Drugs too hard and too long. That goes to his judgment.

...psychological grandmother?

I don't think I had one. Did I miss out on something?

Visiting or Social Teachers back in the 1940's. She was an amazing person. I had one Grandmother growing up who was a pretty traumatized person and could not offer me the kind of Grandparenting that children crave and need. The other maternal/paternal Grandparents were all either dead or drunk.

She adopted me. As it turns out, her life work is used in various graduate level social work courses in the State of Michigan.

Lucky me.

She died one night of heart failure. Although she never complained, she was pretty tired of living with her various health problems. She had called me in obvious distress. All she had to say was my name on the phone and I knew she was in trouble. I told her I would be right there. So I went and she was prostrate on her bed when I arrived. I set her up, got her some water so I could assess what was happening. She took a sip of water and almost immediately suffered a massive heart attack. I held her hands as she raised them up. She died. I knew now she was gone but I tried to follow thru on the obvious medical emergency.

I went to the phone and tried to dial out to 911. No response. I went across the hall to the neighbors apt. and called from there. But when you are the psychological granddaughter you know when its a lost cause. The EMT's arrive and did what they could which was nothing. She was taken to the hospital and pronounced dead.

Julia never married. She loved a WWI soldier who never returned.

but when they get it right-its incredibly important to the lives of children and adults. So...we live with uncertainty. Nothing new in that.

vaccine to have been developed much earlier, as would have FDR.

was approved.

I'd take a series of vaccines vs having Polio...it gets worse in the golden years because it comes back in the form of weakness, pain, and more pain. I also had Whopping cough once as a child.

RFK spewing nonsense - how sad.

and Kathleen Sebelius.

He plans on transcribing and distributing the transcript.

Time to face facts...the man is a fruit loop.

about reading the transcript and giving it one SHRED of credulity.

At least out loud. Here.

Why would there be a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program? There is an excise tax on each dose of vaccine for this fund.

Many people have suffered neurological injuries, anaphylactic shock, paralysis, encephalopathy, chronic arthritis, thrombocytopenic purpura according to the "Vaccine Injury Table" put out by the US Dept of Health and Human Services.

30,000 cases of adverse reactions to vaccines are reported each yr of which 13% are classified as serious -

I commend Bobby Kennedy Jr. I can just imagine how many parents have contacted his law firm with vaccine horrors. Listen to "Ring of Fire" (Mike Papantonio, Bobby Kennedy and Sam Sedar) - these 3 guys are some of the most intelligent guys on talk radio. Kennedy specializes in environmental law.

After my great grandson got a bunch of vaccines all at once, he became ill for a month and stopped babbling and talking for a yr. Luckily, he is talking up a storm now, but we became very scared. If you check online personal stories, this is not uncommon. We are very afraid to give him more vaccines. My belief is that he was given way too many at once and his little body was overloaded. Different children have different tolerances to vaccines and environmental chemicals. Mercury in kids vaccines has been replaced with aluminum, but mercury is still in flu shots. If you get a flu shot, request one that's mercury free.

Cody Unser, daughter of race car driver, Al (out here in NM) became paralyzed from the waist down at 12 yrs old after a hep b vaccine which some drs. believe triggered her to get transverse myelitis.

Read about all the teen girls that just can't stop fainting after the HPV vaccine.

there is a risk with all of them. There will never be a vaccine, drug, etc. that does not cause complications for someone.

The fainting girls problem has not been tied to a vaccination. There is no proof that it's caused by that. If they can find a biological link that will be a different story. It sounds like a mass hysteria problem. Whatever it is, I hope they get to the bottom of it. Even if it's psychological and not biological, it is still a real problem.

As far as Cody Unser, you stated that SOME doctors thought the vaccination caused her condition. What is their evidence and what are the other doctors saying?

The multiple vaccinations has come up a lot. I haven't seen proof of that. It might be wise to break them up just to be sure.

I believe that these problems might be caused by so many chemicals and other things that are in the environment now. So many kids are being diagnosed with autism that something is going on. It could be that doctors recognize it more. It could also be something in the environment that triggers this problem.

I want problems with vaccinations thoroughly examined. The vaccine link has been studied many times and no link was found. If there is one, it has escaped detection and vaccinations are a convenient excuse. If there are proven problems, they must be corrected immediately. The vaccination link claim is specious and regrettable. Vaccines save millions of lives.

If you want to refer to the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, what fund is supposed to pay out to the families of children killed or crippled when they contracted a disease that could otherwise have been prevented by a vaccine (e.g. contracts polio)? Or if a child becomes a disease vector and infects others, who pays those victims? At least an autistic child is alive.

LOL

Answer these issues for me -

Why is it that when the San Francisco Chronicle, hardly a loony bin of conspiracy theories, sent its reporters out in 1999-2000 to investigate the labs where the vaccines are produced, so they could PROVE to the public that all is well within the v. industry, its reporters found such contamination, filth, bacterial and viral contamination of vaccine material etc, that the Chronicle instead ran a mini series detailing all the problems the reporters found. What does that say about the state of these laboratories? If you want the public to support vaccines, then make sure the labs re clean and that there are inspections done without pre-visit announcements!

Although veterinarians carefully train their staff not to vaccinate sick animals, the staff at many pediatrician offices insist on vaccinating children who are there on a day when they are sick, as it will "make it more convenient for the parents." There are at least three hundred credible studies showing that cancer ends up being the result of vaccinating sick mammals. People are mammals, last time I checked. So why are the vets more responsible than the people doctors?

How come in France, which has less press and media control over the vaccine issue, when there was a a nation wide campaign for people to have their flu shots, only 5 million out of eighty million people get those shots? What ar ethe french aware of that the American public is deluded about??

Actually, the American public still do refuse to get flu shots. Even though there is so much forcing the issue as mandates (In California, you cannot get AFDC or food stamps unless you have vaccinated your kids, etc,) only 50- % of all Americans get the flu shot. Legally, I can not get one - it says right on the insert that if you have had serious problems with any flu shot in the past, you cannot have the shot now. (I had Guillaume Barr, resulting from the mid 1970's swine flu shot.)

Not one case of autism has ever been shown to be caused by childhood vaccinations. Not one.

Considering that is what his presence at autism one was about vaccines and autism, I would say that he is refuted.

Since we are not talking about flu vaccines, they are a non-issue. My son can't get the normal flu vaccine either due to an egg allergy (The vaccine is grown in embryos), though.

In the last five years. The parents of a child that got autism after the MMR shot went on to collect a lot of more from the program that hands out settlements to people who have had their children hurt.

Besides which -- there is no credible proof that the autism/vaccine situation is not worrisome. The "proof" that was handed to the public about two years ago had a very faulty study. In that study, children whose vaccines contained formaldehyde as an adjuvant were compared to a group of children where the vaccines had mercury. And since formaldehyde is almost as toxic a chemical as mercury, it is a most ludicrous illogical study that means nothing. (I think, if memory serves, that radioactive material, followed by benzene, followed by mercury followed by formaledehyde, are the top most dangerous chems. i might not have them in the right order; I gleaned much of this from consulting with John Froines of the Blue Ribbon Panel on MTBE, over a decade ago.)

Huge difference. The vaccine was unsafe due to a preexisting condition that was ignored.

So, nope, not one.

And the parents believe that the disorder itself might have ben caused by vaccines.

Citation: http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/0021

Goddess help us when we start havng to look at the results of when the first generation EVER of pregnant women starts in with reporting the damage done to their kids, on account of vaccinating while pregnant.

That was always a big no no, back in the day when even vaccine experts wanted us to be safe. But now it is all about profits. Many vaccines have less than six weeks to nine weeks worth of studies done.

Parents can believe whatever they want, but the science doesn't support it. Vaccines have no correlation with autism, period.

there are NO peer reviewed studies a person can find on the fact that if a car runs over a five year old, that five year old is injured by the car. Yet we all avoid hitting kids (If we can,) when we are out there on the roads driving.

Observation used to be one of the first steps into understanding reality. In fact, when it doesn't affect American industries, we still use observational methods to determine a product's safety. When tens of thousands of Americans told the FDA and CDC that their beloved pets were dying in droves, after eating melanine-laced pet foods made in China, our governmental agencies responded IMMEDIATELY.

Warnings were put out, IMMEDIATELY and the specific name brands were listed on websites.And no one in the government agencies said, "Oh wait, we need lots of peer reviewed studies."

But the vaccine industry rules over so many aspects of American and British life, so that when tens of thousand of parents of children who were perfectly normal and who ahd reached every developmental point exactly on time, yet once a certain vaccine or set of vaccines was concluded, these parents who watched their kids immediately and as a direct response tot he shot(s) begin to convulse, scream, become diarrhetic and having the diarrhea last for days, and then autism descended, our government suddenly adopted the "that is a mere anecdotal experience and doesn't count.'

What total BS!

But otherwise that was a magnficent post!

These people are like creationists and climate change deniers.

I like to call 'em Ferngullians; like, ohmigawd, science and technology are bad and make dolphins and faeries cry! We don't need medicine, just practice laying on hands and remember to eat lots of acai! Scientists are heartless evil people who want us all to, like, be brainwashed! It's just like religion!

Last edited Tue Jun 4, 2013, 05:26 PM - Edit history (1)

If someone mentions the term "American scientists," the people at those agencies break out laughing?

After all, American scientists refuse to follow International Protocols in their set ups of studies, and then after they use a totally inappropriate method of looking at a problem, the American scientist basically is pressured into cherry pick data to give industry what it wants.

It is extremely telling that when a friend of mine was attending an international symposium of top level researchers, she heard an American scientist saying to a Japanese scientist "You people don';t have any reason in the world to state that your children should not be having vaccinations before the age of two."

Now the Japanese scientist could have offered up the totally valid answer that like many nations in the world, Japan follows the preventative principle - in other words, you avoid a product until you know it is harmless. That would have been adequate,. But instead, the Japanese scientist answered with this: "Well in just a few years we will have data showing we are right in having infants and toddlers avoid vaccines. and the data will be using infants and toddlers."

The American scientist acted appalled. But the Japanese scientist responded: "We have gotten our data from the American CDC - so it is American infants and toddlers that will show us how dangerous and risky the vaccine programs for infants and toddlers happen to be."

Pure anti-vax, nutbar horseshit. Typical of the CT nonsense you see on so many anti-vax loon sites.

Sid

Again assess the HISTORICAL FACTS. Please forgive the Noam Chomsky-style delivery and overt advocacy in the final 20 seconds against ethylmercury containing multidose flu vaccines.

Last edited Wed Jun 5, 2013, 04:27 AM - Edit history (1)

You can google and you will find them. Please note that the reporters work done for the San Francisco Chronicle is totally valid reporting.

Answer these issues for me -

Why is it that when the San Francisco Chronicle, hardly a loony bin of conspiracy theories, sent its reporters out in 1999-2000 to investigate the labs where the vaccines are produced, so they could PROVE to the public that all is well within the v. industry, its reporters found such contamination, filth, bacterial and viral contamination of vaccine material etc, that the Chronicle instead ran a mini series detailing all the problems the reporters found. What does that say about the state of these laboratories? If you want the public to support vaccines, then make sure the labs re clean and that there are inspections done without pre-visit announcements!

Although veterinarians carefully train their staff not to vaccinate sick animals, the staff at many pediatrician offices insist on vaccinating children who are there on a day when they are sick, as it will "make it more convenient for the parents." There are at least three hundred credible studies showing that cancer ends up being the result of vaccinating sick mammals. People are mammals, last time I checked. So why are the vets more responsible than the people doctors?

How come in France, which has less press and media control over the vaccine issue, when there was a a nation wide campaign for people to have their flu shots, only 5 million out of eighty million people get those shots? What ar ethe french aware of that the American public is deluded about??

Actually, the American public still do refuse to get flu shots. Even though there is so much forcing the issue as mandates (In California, you cannot get AFDC or food stamps unless you have vaccinated your kids, etc,) only 50- % of all Americans get the flu shot. Legally, I can not get one - it says right on the insert that if you have had serious problems with any flu shot in the past, you cannot have the shot now. (I had Guillaume Barr, resulting from the mid 1970's swine flu shot.)

On edit: Dórea JG. Exposure to mercury during the first six months via human milk and vaccines: modifying risk factors. Am J Perinatol. 2007;24:387–400. [PubMed]
Dórea JG, Marques RC. Modeling neurodevelopment outcomes and ethylmercury exposure from thimerosal-containing vaccines. Toxicol Sci. 2008;103:414–416. [PubMed]

Duszczyk-Budhartokioki
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2957583/

Also note - if there has been a true discovery that mercury is a bad thing to have in vaccines, (As demonstrated in the study by Dorea, and by Duszczyk) then it follows that formaldehyde should also be avoided, as both these chemical elements have a nasty response inside the human body. But it is highy unlikely that with our government enforcing vaccines containing formaldehyde, that we will see much research done about this element.)

Who wanted to know if there were any scientific reasons to find herself at fault for her daughter's autism (She was, after all, as she clearly states in the introduction to her piece on this, the one who took her daughter in for the shot that crippled her with autism.)

http://www.regardingcaroline.com/pubmed.html

On this topic I have presented several arguments.

One argument I have been making in this topic is this one: that we no longer have scientists that practice real science. So we in the USA don't have the answers we should have. Your Post Hoc-Ergo etc does not apply to that aspect of my arguing.

So can you specifically talk about what you mean. feel free to use copy and paste if you want, but show me specifically, Mr Lesser, what you are referring to.

That bit about other nations laughing is something you just made up.

As for Japan they are noted for being one of the country that allows any quack to market herbs under the idea that "natural" means safe and good.

People here who are not falling into the Confirmation bias trap.

Those who want safe vaccines are constantly told that their side has not proven the risks of the pro0ducts. And we who want safe vaccines also watch as those who have attempted proofs have been made into pariahs.

But the thing is, most nations in the world now try to follow the Preventative Priniciple, wherein you don't have people using products till the products are proven safe.

Many people here in the USA don't know that the average vaccine is tested for less than three months.

Vaccines do not have six to nine weeks of studies. That is pure baloney.

Anti-vaccers are going to be the death of many people. Public Health has done a great job getting rid of lots of deadly diseases. We don't see the ravages of these diseases anymore, so people think they're not such a big deal. That is pure stupidity.

There is no credible proof that the vaccine / autism situation is anything but baloney. Kids start showing symptoms of autism around the same time as these vaccinations are administered.

Here's something you need to learn: correlation is not causation.

BZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTT.

Danger Will Robinson.. Bad Science Ahead.

I think, if memory serves, that radioactive material, followed by benzene, followed by mercury followed by formaledehyde, are the top most dangerous chems.

Meaningless statement. Along the lines of "in what context Charlie".

You are seriously ok linking to a site that claims GardisilGardisil is ruining lives one girl at a time?

And they are listed under possible side effects not actual. I am not sure how familiar you are with clinical trials, but the very quickly version is this: any non-normal reaction that occurs during the testing and monitoring periods of a trial is included as a possible side effect as both a requirement and CYA behavior. This is why medicine commercials have a huge list of reactions, even though the vast majority are not related to the medicine.

This is also the reason that only the insane anti-vac websites give a shot about the inserts. If it actually meant anything, it would be seen by now in both cases, successful lawsuits and scientific refutation.

I didn't think you could find a worse website than AoA but props for doing so.

I know nothing about the site. That's ok, because the site is IRRELEVANT to the collection of pharmaceutical package inserts they have acquired and posted, unless the inserts are forgeries.

FYI, the site popped during a google search on Dr. Offitt, specifically the smart satirical April Fool's Day essay.

And you linked to a site and told us to scroll down. The website is reprehensible. And source is important, sorry to say. Of course, I googled inserts, and the only websites interested are all equally as crazy.

Now, I might have wondered about that before posting the link, because there is no smoking gun there.

A parody of both his father and his uncle who were both honorable and thoughtful people. Unlike the addled brain of RFK Jr.

Far too many drugs in his early life, methinks.

than the drugs. Antivax is very big there, along with it's cousin Scientology. Robert has taken to dating Hollywood actresses of late.

My son has sensory problems and getting shots is very painful to him. Back when he was younger he had a much harder time regulating his emotions and his responses. He would scream and the look on his face was horrible. He was truly horrified and freightened. But I knew he had to have those vaccinations. So, I would make him get them. Luckily now he has had all of his adolescent vaccinations. The only thing I have to worry about now is the first time he has to have his blood drawn. He is better at regulating himself now so hopefully it will be better.

Two totally pathetic media-blitzed studies were released.

One of these two studies went on at great lengths to say that the kids who had been vaccinated with the old version of the MMR, containing Thimerosal, had autism rates no higher than kids who were more recently vaccinated with vaccines that contained no Thimerosal. But if you red the study, what you found out was that this study compared kids whose vaccines contained mercury as the adjuvant, with kids whose vaccines contained formaldehyde.

This was an extremely pathetic way to set up a study, so no real knowledge has come about. Both formaldehyde and mercury are extremely potent toxins. this would be like saying it's okay to breathe in car exhaust, because a study said so, and then you found out the study compared the lung tissue samples of people who breathed in diesel truck exhaust as compared to diesel car exhaust.

The other study was simply a "counting" of how many studies out there claimed that vaccines were safe, as opposed to how many studies claimed that vaccines were not safe. That is not science.If hat is how science had been handled here in the late Nineties, with the MTBE gas additive scandal, we would still have MTBe in our gasoline. there were over one thousand industry studies that stated MTBE was safe, while only two studies said MTBE had no benefits and only extreme risk.

Of course, to get the study showing that MTBE was a bad idea to come about, Gov Davis had to scrap his career.

in Salon in 2005. It took 6 years for Salon to publish a retraction:
http://www.salon.com/2011/01/16/dangerous_immunity/

A famous name does not an expert make.

Sid

Think the site in my OP has a YouTube embed of it.

Orac, at Respectful Insolence covered Kennedy at Autism One earlier this week too.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/05/30/can-antivaccinationists-knock-it-off-with-the-autism-holocaust-analogies/

I am speculating but wouldn't be surprised at all if this turned out to contribute to the backstory.

in ambulance chasing the vaccine industry.

Just saying.

on vaccines he is Michelle Bachmann redux.

Listen for the HISTORICAL FACTS. Please forgive the Noam Chomsky-style delivery and overt advocacy in the final 20 seconds against ethylmercury containing multidose flu vaccines.

That will just delegitimize all the work he's done on the environment.

Sid

"Oh, what's the harm?"

The harm is the babies and little kids who die in agony due to RFK Jr's abject stupidity.

Last edited Sun Jun 2, 2013, 01:03 PM - Edit history (1)

and/or their own children. This is a lie. No vaccine works 100% of the time for 100% of the people who get it, so some who have been vaccinated are still susceptible. There are also those who can't have the vaccines for legitimate medical reasons. All of these people are at put at risk.

And yes, this shit really does happen. It happened to me. My measles vaccine didn't work for whatever reason, and I got measles from an unvaccinated child.

for certain vaccines.

I know someone who caught whooping cough from an unvaccinated person when she was one week old (too young to have had the vaccine). She survived but suffered brain damage. She's intellectually completely fine, but has never been able to walk.

Bobby Jr. just became Michelle Bachmann.

do think too many are given to children at such a young age. the european countries don't do half as many as we do.

as a child i had measles, chicken pox and whooping cough. never got the mumps even though i was exposed as a child -- my couisin had them and i was playing with her right before she got them -- then when i was in my late 20s my son got them. i was laying on the couch with him and never got them. guess i had an immunity.

my son also had measles and chicken pox. he was born in '61. i don't recall the shots being offered -- then again we didn't have health insurance.

i was born in '41 and lived in fear of polio. i have scoliosis and several docs think i might have had a mild case that went undiagnosed. who knows? i guess i got the vaccine when it became available.

that being said i know a naturapathic doc who had 6 children -- none of them were vaccinated and they're all healthy adults now.

study.

In 1966, a venereal disease investigator named Peter Buxtun learned of the study and sent a letter to his department director expressing his moral concerns regarding the experiment. The US Center for Disease Control (CDC) responded by asserting that the study must continue until all of the patients had died, allowing the researchers the opportunity to autopsy all of the patients. This conclusion was supported by the National Medical Association and the American Medical Association. Nonetheless Buxtun continued his efforts to bring attention to the questionable ethics of the study, but his words failed to penetrate the tangled mass of bureaucracy and racism at the CDC.

http://www.damninteresting.com/bad-blood-in-tuskegee/

The first published report of the study appeared in 1936, with subsequent papers issued every four to six years until the early 1970s. In l969, a committee at the federally operated Center for Disease Control decided the study should continue. Only in 1972, when accounts of the study first appeared in the national press, did the Department of Health, Education and Welfare (HEW) halt the experiment.

http://www.socialworker.com/tuskegee.htm

In 1969 I was at university. It's not ancient history.

As long as Thimerosal is in these vaccines, this controversy will remain.

You can put up all the links you want. It doesn't change the fact that mercury is an extremely toxic substance that is PROVEN to cause significant damage even in small amounts. This is a substance more dangerous than arsenic. And when people see it in their vaccines, in their dental fillings, in their food and water.... people are going to ask questions and people are going to be concerned.

And repeating a lie enough times isn't going to ever make it true. This conspiracy theory bullshit needs to go away - it doesn't accomplish anything other than filling the pockets of the anti-vaxxer nuts.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/

Aluminum, formaldehyde, polysorbate and other chemicals.

You replace a toxic substance with another toxic substance. Polysorbate has shown to cause cancer in laboratory rats. Aluminum is a neurotoxin and studies still have to be done on its full effects. I hope I dont have to explain that formaldehyde is a poison.

You want to take the risks and inject this stuff into your body and your kids. Fine! I promise no one is going to run and pull the needle away from you. But you don't have a right to force other people to accept those risks. People should have a right to control what goes into their bodies. People have a right to make their own medical decisions that will effect their life.

He stated clearly he doesn't care about facts or any links to those facts.

Eventually, all the overwhelming evidence being presented will (hopefully) make a dent in his ignorance.

The MMR, which has been the subject of much of the controversy, never did.

The flu vaccine is the only one that sometimes still contains mercury, and you can ask to get it without mercury.

Removing mercury from vaccines, though a good thing in itself, did not change autism rates.

By the way: it's worth noting that early 20th century kids often got far more mercury than kids nowadays. It was often prescribed in medicines and even teething powders. This was certainly a bad thing, and many children got sick, or even died. But this goes against the idea of autism as 'a modern epidemic caused by mercury in vaccines'. Perhaps there were more autistic children then than now (I would not be surprised in fact, though the diagnostic category did not exist them); but this also goes against the anti-vaccine propaganda.