There will always be pervs. I would prefer the issue to be how long someone is lingering in a rest room, not how they're dressed.

As a woman and a mother of a daughter, I'm not as comfortable as you are.

As a woman and the mother of a daughter and a son, I've had to come to terms with that fact.

as well.

You, as well.

I had a couple of beers. Anyway,

pnwmom is a mom of a daughter based on what evidence...?
Even if pnwmom is a female with a child, that is a very weak basis for his/her argument.

You say you are, but there is no way to prove it to us. I sort of doubt it, myself, but that should be irrelevant.

Your argument is weak if that's all you've got.

women's lav. inclusivity my ass.

bathrooms with a single stall & sink. or in public women's bathrooms with multiple stalls and sinks.

so your question is irrelevant.

Simple question. Yes or no?

by the female owner and the unrelated male guest at the same time, unless they're intimate, & family members sharing a bathroom has nothing to do with sharing a public bathroom with strange men.

and i'm not obliged to tell you how many bathrooms i have, but since you ask, i have an outhouse. it's a one-seater.

It is no different than any other area of public space. Really. Outside a stall? Fully clothed.

So you see each other when washing hands? Fully clothed.

Big whoop..

I'd really want the urinals in a private area.

I really don't get guys having to pee fairly publicly like that.

Sorry but... fuck that.

waiting for you to come out to.....

omg om gom gomgmogmogmogmogmgmgomogg!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111111111111111111

Seriously.

on edit: I find it really sick that you would put lesbians in the same category as some fucking letch shooting photos of strange women. Ever hear of a lesbian doing that? Ever hear of a lesbian raping a woman? You think the fear or resistance is based on some guy seeing me at the sink? FFS.

Problem is what was done. Not who was doing it but that they were doing it.

too confusing

reported that a MAN dressed as a woman was in the women's can.

no, putting on women's clothes doesn't mean you're a woman.

Transgender does not mean "putting on women's clothes".

& just go use the stalls>>> HOW WOULD ANYONE KNOW?

Men can pee in stall sitting down so no one would know. And if they are transitioning then they might was well get used to it.

the throne in a stall whether male or female?

Did he drop his drawers and show his dick? That would be upsetting no matter how he was dressed. Some women can look pretty masculine - I'd hate to see some woman harassed because someone decided she didn't look feminine enough.

Just make all the bathrooms a one stall/one sink affair, the way that Trader Joe's and every airline in the world do it. Or eject people on the basis of behavior, not which gender you happen to think they belong to. Taking pictures under the stalls is grounds for calling the cops, whether it's a man or a woman doing it.

And I guess transgenders, transsexuals and transvestites will just have to cross their legs until they get home. Or invest heavily in Depends.

The issue is the act of recording individuals and hence invading their privacy. As a matter of interest its not unusual to be out enjoying the nightlife to bump into a club or show that is also a fav venue by the LGBT community, no one bats a eyelid what toilets are used. I think most right thinking people have come to terms with. I'm not from the LGBT community myself but apart from the little hope highlighted above elsewhere the level of sometimes quite open discrimination is still appalling even nowadays.

Regardless of clothing, "sexual identity" and so forth.

If the person wears women's clothes and feels like she is a woman then it doesn't matter what she has in her underwear. She should be able to go to the Women's washroom. Going to the Men's is just looking to get beat on.

It must be so difficult, I can't imagine how difficult. Us 'regular' people take so much for granted.

out or not.

We are evolving in our view toward gender.

agree with me when i say that putting on a dress doesn't make you a woman.

I would recommend you educate yourself.

and the issue is the use of the camera and the conduct of the person in the bathroom, their sex is irrelevant to that discussion.

up like a woman so as not to be spotted as a man when he entered the women's bathroom.

i don't want to share bathrooms with random strange men.

It reflects the view of someone who has not in any way seriously grappled with this issue, what it means, and what it feels like. Now this is a complicated question, and I can quite understand why the feelings of a woman confronted with a transgender male to female who still looks masculine might be upset. I think you can have some sympathy for that person, while also having sympathy for the transgendered female.

But, either way, this issue deserves more serious thought than this, in my opinion.

Bryant

i don't want to share a bathroom with men.

what you people are saying is that i can be forced to because some man feels he doesn't want to share a bathroom with other men.

what makes his wishes more important than mine?

making a fool of yourself next time.

makes one a fool. But I have been called worse.

World Health Organisation

Genomic resource centre

Gender and Genetics

Genetic Components of Sex and Gender

http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html

I have it bookmarked to read after work.

issue and I have no right to assume everyone who asks a question like you did is a bigot.

Again, please accept my apology.

I could see how the question could come across as snarky. It is hard to convey nuance when typing.

This article sums up the complexity of the issue quite nicely. Gender is not always what it appears to be, not only psychologically, but physically.

US but everywhere. Maybe than it would be easier to stop the bigotry and get lots of people to accept the reality of intersex as a normal condition. Simply because anyone of us might be not what we think we are and there is nothing 'wrong' with it.

Working as a nurse practitioner in women's health. So called "intersex" conditions are far more common than most people think. If one is born with a brain that fits into a body that conforms to social expectations of what it should be, one's lucky. Expecting that everyone else is is a form of bigotry, no different from racism or sexism.

And it's not about clothing. People who are for banning trans* people from appropriate bathrooms seem unaware that there are plenty of trans* people who they are unaware of using the right bathroom everyday, likely right by them.

This would discriminate against some trans* people yes, but mostly because of people's perception of "beauty".

What will they do for trans women who pass, have a genital checker?

Last edited Thu Jun 6, 2013, 05:04 AM - Edit history (1)

Here's a real perv.

http://www.wmur.com/Man-Pulled-From-Women-s-Outhouse-Tank/-/9858568/11827380/-/t6klqe/-/index.html

he stood in a tank full of human waste to film this. Gross. Utter nutjob.

He did it a second time too.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/outhouse-aficionado-deep-doo-doo-again

One sick dude!

I wonder how often he's done it and didn't get caught? Yuck!

cost money to fix.

But would not pose a risk to women in the ladies' room.

Traditionally, men have been banned from ladies' rooms in order to keep women safer while they were in a vulnerable situation.

So how do you allow transgender women in (even those who haven't transitioned physically) without also allowing male predators in?

there are some women who might be larger and based on how they are dressed some might not know whether they are male or female just based on how their body looks.

as sexual predators?

What about male sexual predators cross-dressed as women who might look convincing enough fool you?

Even better, how about you just assume that EVERYONE in a public restroom is a cross dressed sexual predator and never use multi stall restrooms again. End of discussion, your problem solved.

since when is a male predator going to not go somewhere he's not allowed?

and definitely NOT representative of transgender women, whom are there to take care of their personal needs and nothing else. I suppose that there is always going to be some amount of risk no matter what (and it's no small risk for transgender women to enter a mens restroom) but I don't see why we need to punish all transgender women for the transgressions of some male predators whom are crossdressing for nefarious/inappropriate purposes. Having more individual/family restrooms in more places might help.

...you've posted on this exact same subject.

You seem a little obsessed by it...to the point of flame bait.

Deja vu all over again.

TYY

n/t

I hope the admins are noticing too. This makes DU suck.

This incident just happened two weeks ago, so it isn't old news.

I'm not blaming transwomen for what this male predator did. I'm asking how to prevent men like him from getting into women's restrooms.

And the only answer appears to be to construct all new single-user bathrooms.

SOLUTION: DON'T LEAVE YOUR HOME. LEAVE THE REST OF US IN PEACE.

the non standard heterosexual/rigid gender normative catogory. after reading her posts for years i would say she is not too fond of of LGBT folk. i think her father came out of the closet later in life which gave her "issues" and caused her to have a hair up her ass towards the whole LGBT community.

I would guess the person most at risk in any restroom would be the transgendered person who was either suspected or known and reported to someone intolerant who likes to use their fists or worse.

Nobody really cares, but my experience in the restroom in a stall next to transgendered friends is the usual quietness or girl talk or looking for TP.

Because of a few comments I have seen here I just needed to post this. This is NOT a transgender issue. Pervs are everywhere and there will never be a way to be protected from all pervs.

Let's not make this harder for those attempting to find their comfort, their very selves in this often miserable life.

one there, you can figure he's up to no good and get out immediately.

I think better bathrooms that afford more privacy is the key. I mean, you could have a woman or man, paid to record other women or men in a public bathroom.

Change the way stalls are designed. You also get the benefit of not having little kids looking under stalls. LOL. So, its a "twofor".

But, keep the gender specific bathrooms.

to some trans women. Perhaps you can find one who still has a "male body". Ask them if they have a burning desire to whip their penis out in the ladies toilet.

To make a comment like "some people with male bodies" is distasteful. A trans woman is NOT a man. She may have male genitalia - the reasons for that are many and varied and it isn't for you to judge her sincerity based on what she has between her legs.

Please get a clue, pnwmom. A pre-surgical trans woman has a penis - in the same way that someone else might have a fleshy tumor. It is not a sexual organ; it is something that needs to be removed. You dance around this all the time - this is hardly the first time you've raised the subject - and each time you do a very poor job of convincing anyone that you are not irrationally biased against trans women. Your comment proves that you clearly have no desire to learn and understand anything about the trans community.

Make it so the toilet cubicles can be completely closed off and left private. Then it doesn't matter what gender, or what pointy bits the user has, he or she is the only one in there.

watching your public display of bigotry.

Very telling that you are not at all concerned about sharing a restroom with 'ciswomen' who might look like males to you.

Last edited Thu Jun 6, 2013, 03:46 AM - Edit history (1)

I fail to see what transgender women have to do with this. Or any woman who doesn't look 'womanly' enough to someone else.



PS I really don't like the division into two separate groups ('transgender women' and 'ciswomen'). Woman is a woman is a woman. WTF does it matter how one looks like or which parts one does and doesn't have?

Edited last statement for clarity.

division into two separate groups when it comes to excretion and other personal bodily functions.

one could even say its stratified.

Last edited Thu Jun 6, 2013, 12:25 AM - Edit history (1)

everywhere.

men with klinefelters, for example, are men, & no more likely to identify as female than men without klinefelters. what does klinefelters have to do with a man who's chosen to take hormones (also part of the category)? NOTHING. It's an artificial category.

the article has nothing to do with 'intersex'. it has to do with men dressing up as women and entering women's bathrooms.

public bathrooms? Or a genital check, possibly with video camera, before they can enter public bathrooms? Witnesses to make sure they sit down? Seriously, what would you like to happen?

Don't see any argument there.

Not a slightest idea why OP brought transgender into this discussion.

My second statement might have been a bit unclear, so allow me to clarify:

PS I really don't like the division into two separate groups ('transgender women' and 'ciswomen'). Woman is a woman is a woman. WTF does it matter how one looks like or which parts one does and doesn't have?

If one doesn't want to share a restroom with a woman who doesn't look 'womanly' enough for them, one is welcome not to use the restroom. One is welcome to take their bigoted self out of the public restroom and use their own private restroom, or find a public restroom that is designed for one person only.

want to share public restrooms with men, period, & see no reason why i should have to.

If I understand you correctly you don't have problem sharing gender segregated restrooms with transgender or intersex females.

I can see up thread there was a difference of opinion about unisex restrooms that have private stalls and communal washing area. Is this what you are talking about?

no interest in even talking to you, let alone giving you examples of anything.

and i was trying to figure which DUer was asinine enough to demand that you share a restroom with a member of opposite sex.

That doesn't make him a transwoman, any more than a woman in pants becomes a transman.

The article you mentioned in your OP is about a male sexual predator. There is nothing in that article about transgender.

If you don't want to share a public restroom with a woman that does not look 'womanly' enough for you, take your bigoted arse elsewhere.

That's what I'd like to know.

I would recommend either you shut the fuck up about it, or at least admit you are a bigot.

in the bathroom and locker rooms, and that transwomen are not a threat to us but some men are.

are physically indistinguishable from some transwomen. So the question is, how to we keep males out?

Putting a wig or a dress or lipstick on a male doesn't make him a cis-woman or transwoman any more than getting a hair cut and wearing pants and no make-up makes a woman into a man.

Problem solved for you.

That solution will spare the rest of us from whatching your repeated display of bigotry towards transgender community.

are you that important?

because I've seen you obsessing over this before. It would help if you did not ALWAYS equate the transgender community with perverts when you bring up this obsession of yours again.

My question to you is why do you automatically think about transgender women when you read an article about a sex predator...every.single.time? You might have a brighter outlook on life if you did not obsess over public restrooms and what other people have in their pants quite so much.