this is nothing more than fueling and feeding a deeply entrenched corporate apparatus into the national security structure of the country. In fact it was created solely for that purpose. You can possibly make the argument that health-care was enacted in much the same way.

Assuming you don't like the one we got.

Bryant

What it looks like to me is that we just inserted the very large corporate healthcare apparatus into our government much like private security and intelligence firms are in the national security structure through the NSA. It's intentional.

having been the ones who both created and cheered the creation of this whole mess ought to raise a red flag for people.

I believe that openness and democracy are incompatible. Reality bears me out.

The average person doesn't want to see the sausage made or know what's in it...they just want the sausage. They actively want to not know the process because the process is ugly and stomach-churning and might put them off sausage.

They're secure and they'd rather not know how. Snowden's transgression to the public wasn't disclosing confidential information...it was pulling back the curtain.

Many, possibly even the majority, just don't care that much about this kind of thing. But plenty do, those that make up the informed electorate. Or engaged (engaged is probably better - the tea partiers are definitely engaged, but not informed).

While most people don't care one way or another, those that do, care a lot, and they may have the effect of spreading information around, of moving public opinion on a local level.

Bryant

Just because a rwer wrote the story or takes these views, it's verbotten for anyone on the left to agree? Asinine. The premise that "Some secrets cannot be kept from the people if our system of government is to remain legitimate" is spot on. The right is conveniently late to the party as usual, and are now taking advantage of an opportunity to make hay of the grossly expanded powers they enacted under Bush**. Their hypocrisy is well known. But where were the Dems when they did this? And where are they now (with a few exceptions), but standing around trying to decide how big a fire to fry Snowden in?

It's a neverending source of frustration to me that too often the Dems go along the with Repubs on matters they shouldn't, then get caught out on the wrong side of things...and rarely do they use the bully pulpit of the press except around election time. I don't have any sympathy for them. If they won't stand on principle then they deserve to keep being bitten in the ass.