John McCain was in agreement. So, rather than be a WUSS, PBO looks on the road to prove that he could "Man Up" or whatever the idiots call it.

It is what it is. We knew it was coming.... We hoped for better...was not to be.

and we can tell people they are safer.

Been working for some folks for awhile, and hey, Syria is in the same area of the globe so why not?

outweigh the 93,000+ killed by conventional weapons. Does anyone?

go for repeated "sales pitches."

we could be doomed to repeat it. Except that the American People are pretty war-weary at this point. Or they should be.

so it's up to us to keep linking them. What I mean is I hope not!

Obama will probably be held responsible even tho it was Hillary's job to handle it properly. But that would smear the dear, so daddyhub comes in to save her the embarrassment of being exposed for what she really is.

I see this as a necessity. This isn't like sending Colin Powell to the U.N. with a little vile of baby powder. Numerous sources have gathered evidence of Syria using chemical weapons, which is universally unacceptable. And with Hezbollah and Iran getting more involved, this needs to be nipped in the bud. So sorry that keeping the Middle East from exploding is in the vital interest of the United States and taking attention away from Snowden. A couple days of air strikes and no-fly zones will obliterate what's left of Assad's military hardware. The 'rebels', like in Libya, can do the rest. Hezbollah loses a vital lifeline and gets isolated. Then you can all get back to complaining about Obama invading your privacy by logging phone numbers, and worshipping 'heroes'.

...then the rest of the universe can charge in and sort it out for once. There isn't one fucking good reason why we should be the ones. We don't have enough money to provide poor kids a meal in this country, then we don't have the money for the cost of this.

Its more of a diplomatic mission to reaffirm our commitment to our allies in the region. Like it or not, oil still holds the entire world over a barrel.

Thank you for offering me the first answer that isn't full of fluff and fear tactics. I don't accept it as a legitimate reason, but it surely is the usual excuse.

and it will be a legitimate 'excuse' for a few more decades unless we can eradicate the obstructionist Republicans and invest some real money into alternative energies. California is bringing online a solar power plant equivalent to an average nuclear reactor. Its happening, just at a really slow pace.

It's self-serving meddling, and completely unnecessary. If the rebels hadn't stirred things up and opened the door for overthrowing Assad, do you think we'd be intervening in Syria? Hell no. Assad was our torture buddy. The same people who were behind our getting into Iraq are behind this, you can bet your bottom dollar. What may have started as a legitimate uprising was co-opted by the friends of the neocons, turned into a full fledged civil war replete with AQ interference, and once again we're falling for it.

But the surveillance state loves it. We're creating new terrorists over there every day.

No money for education, for poor kids, and let's please shred Social Security and the Constitution, but we *will* have our wars.

The American Empire is already doomed.

There are glaring differences, though. Obama isn't Bush, and the neocons wanted a full scale invasion of Libya, which they didn't get, and won't get in Syria.

The same will happen in Syria. Do we really want to give AQ types yet another recruiting station and training ground? Well, why the hell not. They're already sharing the arms we give the "rebels".

Most of these militias are NOT extremists, they just expect compensation for their role in defending the oil fields during the conflict, like JOBS. And its not the Ghaddafi era anymore, where the government can just send in troops and eradicate protesters and strikers. They are learning diplomacy, which is certainly a new concept after decades of dictatorship rule.

The Al Qaeda threat comes mainly from Algeria. Its not like they have a safe haven anywhere, as the Algerian government has been clamping down hard on them and working to secure the borders. The AQ effect is minimal at best.

And the AQ groups, among others, are taking advantage of that. We'll see how overstated the threat is.

And I'm angry.

with using White Phospherous, Depleted Uranium etc? I thought we approved of Chemical Weapons.

Was anyone ever prosecuted for this here in the US? No, I didn't think so. Faux outrage, made up propaganda, same old script. They need a new one.

Lol, we are such hypocrites, and so transparent. Sure, let's go in and once again work with Al Queda, our old friends, actually our creation and kill some more people in the ME.

They have a check list, those Neocons. Seven countries I believe were on the list, 'starting with Iraq'. Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan and the big prize, airc from Michael Ledeen is Iran.

The problem for them is that the Libyans fought for their country so it wasn't as easy to fight a proxy war using Al Queda again, as they thought. Now the Syrians are showing no sign of giving up their country to a bunch of ourside, 'proxy' armies either.

Iran too has presented more of a problem than those oh-so-confident neocons anticipated. They are getting impatient again, and hoping once again to use our military to do their dirty work.

The whole world knows what is going on, except for the average Faux viewer. I hope the NSA is 'storing' Cheney's phone data right now. THAT would be a good use of their surveillance program!

Let's hope the president isn't a 'wuss' and tells them where to go with their wars.

After what the Bush Admin did, its all understandable. How simple it would have been to handle Iraq the way we did Libya. Clinton had pretty much pulverized Saddam's military capabilities with a low-risk no fly zone before Bush rolled through the country in about a day and then pranced around in his cod piece. And then we stayed.. and did a lot of shitty things. Hundreds of thousands died. Millions displaced. The Iraqis pretty much hate us for what Bush did. Obama has the delicate duty of trying to make amends. We let Egypt sort out their own shit. We leveled the playing field in Libya and the rebels took care of the rest. Both countries are going through growing pains but they don't resemble their past dictatorships at all. Foreign contractors are lining up for an opportunity to help rebuild those countries. And it would be a mistake in the eyes of the Middle East to sit by and let Assad gas his people.

So now we are admitting we were there, when throughout the whole invasion, we were told we were not there. And those of us who said we were there, were called liars. Well now at least the truth is out.

This is our new way of invading countries, we use proxies, we pay and arm and then support, many of them dictatorships, like Bahrain, Qatar and others who we knew were sending in troops so we could claim, falsely 'we have no boots on the ground, this is a grass roots rebellion'. In fact we were using troops from our dictator friens. It was no such thing as a grass roots rebellion, and as always with our wars, thousands of innocent people were slaughtered, murdered, raped and 'our allies' there are among the worst of the worst, prejudiced against Africans who were there to work, they were hung, tortured and brutally murdered and we approved of it all, for OIL. How can we just write off all the people we are killing? Are they not human beings to us?

Same thing being repeated in Syria, like Libya, our 'allies' were the extremists we once asked these leaders to keep under control for us. Al Queda. Do you really not know all of this? Are Americans the only people in the world who are so unaware of what their government is doing?

I opposed the Libyan intervention or invasion which is what it was, a country that maybe we did not like but was among the most developed in Africa, is now destroyed. But we did get control of the business, mostly oil there.

As for foreign contractors getting work in these countries??? THEY DONT NEED foreign contractors, they are superior contractors themselves and have been for centuries before we even existed.

How imperial have become, how arrogant. Those poor brown savages need us to first destroy their countries making work for US so we can go in and rebuild them. Except we don't, we can't build our own infrastructure. We just throw money at these contractors then leave them with no oversight anad the 'work' never gets done.

Our 'contractors' are not wanted in those countries, they have their own. Our contractors are mercenaries for the most part.

I give up on this country sometimes. It's such a pleasure to talk to informed people in Europe and other nations who have not been subjected to the propaganda machine we here believe is a 'news media' who see clearly what is going on here. Neocon, 'Project for a New American Century. So far it has cost us trillions, not to mention the lives lost on all sides and we still cannot win. But maybe that's the plan, to keep the money flowing, forever.

I, however, have faith in the human race.

Memory refreshing...the PNAC..NEOCON.

Notice we don't here much about the PNAC Playbook anymore with the irrelevant "personality" NOISE that this "Democratic Site" seems to become overpowered with these days.

Distraction/Disinfo/Strawmen/Diffusion...

the reference to "a clean break."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023012860#post23

defended here now on a regular basis. Clapper eg, being defended right here on DU. All of Obama's Republican appointees have been defended right here on DU. I wonder if the rules have changed to keep up with the sudden love for Republicans here on DU.

How many Republicans has Obama placed in his cabinet so far? I didn't vote for Republicans, yet we got them back, through the person we did vote for.

'How did this happen'? Good question.

is always correct. I think those who take the most heat from both sides tend to speak more to the issues without all the BS party loyalty. They take a stance on the issues, which is harder (and more dangerous to corporate issues) and leaves the those who have a more black and white view not sure how to react.

Geithner was a WS choice and that was an early clue for some. Thanks for reminding me of this speech, although I'll not mention his name because of the auto "unrec" by some. For a liberal site, many have a closed mind

Thanks for pushing back on a variety of issues

But you knew that

most tragically, children. Would you like me to post some photos of the children being born whose countries, parents were exposed to our 'non-chemical' weapons? Would you like to see the bodies of the babies after they were killed by the non-chemical WP, the ash gray faces the world saw, although for the most part, hidden from the American people?

Here's the problem for the US. We have killed, tortured and maimed so many human beings and we haven't stopped, with our WMDs in countries where we did not and do not belong, that when we have the gall to point fingers at anyone else, the world no longer believes our lies, that we CARE about anyone. They KNOW what we are doing and why. Americans, or at least some of them, maybe the only people on the planet who still believes the stories being told.

The world considers the US to be most dangerous threat to world peace now. We are the most feared, not respected, feared country in the world.

So whatever adjective you want to use for our WMDs, feel free. We've killed more human beings who did nothing to us over the past decade than any other country in the world.

I don't know about you, but I supported Democrats to put a stop to OUR killing.

It's used to punch holes in buildings.

WP sets stuff on fire. There's no such thing as "exposure" to it other than that; it ignites on contract with air. Make stuff up when the reality is bad enough?

little Iraqi children who were 'exposed' to it.

I notice you are not acknowledging the killing by this government, of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, based on lies btw, some people here seem to have forgotten that we invaded a country based on lies, and we brought WMDs there, dropped bombs on civilians, yes, I know, we call those humans 'collateral damage' in an attempt to remove their humanity.

Again, a country that has and is still killing human beings in different parts of the world doesn't have the moral authority to criticize anyone else until they get their own house in order.

We are still waiting for the war crimes committed by the Bush administration to be dealt with here, we don't have time to be trying to address the problems of other countries, nor the authority to do so.

As for your 'technicalities' re our Weapons, dead is dead and it would be difficult to deny that we have, wrongfully, based on lies, killed an awful lot of innocent people.

So, what gives us any right, any moral authority to be interfering in anyone else's business?

WP is against the rules of war Internationally, btw. It kills people. We used it. Have there been any consequences for that crime?

First thing I thought of when I saw this thread.

And and al Qaeda used chemical weapons.

'Obama is a non-American Muslim extremist working to impose Sharia law on us all' category.

But anyone who thinks that al Qaeda isn't the military backbone of the Syrian insurgency is a dupe.

The Khmer Rouge wasn't the only alternative on the battlefield against Lon Nol in the early 70s, but it was apparent that all of the support given to the "revolutionary forces" and liberals fighting the pro-US government would only lead to the Khmer Rouge coming to power - it could be no other way.

Nusra/Qaeda will lay its hands on the weapons sent by the CIA just as it has the weapons sent by the US allies Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey.

Obama is not extremist or Muslim - he is merely a victim of a morally sick elite that wants to wage war where it can.

No one is denying the Nursa fighters' strict Islamic intentions, nor the fact that they're well trained, but they are one group out of many, and those many are very aware of the Nursa Front. The U.S. will be arming the Free Syrian Army, who complained they had to work closely with Nursa for lack of weaponry. No doubt the Free Syrian Army and other rebel groups gave assurances that after the fall of Assad, those guns will be turned on the Nursa Front, with maybe a few drone strikes thrown in.

Its all a chess game, with lots of intricacies and caveats. Like in Libya, the chance to topple a dictator can't be passed up.

If I were really some crazed "anti-American," I would WELCOME this decision, because all it will do is paint the insurgents as American agents, without providing the means to gain a military and political victory. And it will cause retrenchment in Iran (and Russia too). The tactic of negotiation - real negotiation - could achieve so much more.

Gorbachev overthrew the Soviet Union because he negotiated it away. Assad would have done the same. The price (a guarantee of secular politics and no religion-based parties) was too high for the Sunni sectarians - but why would that be too high for the US?

This all makes no sense, and it endangers Israel as well.

One, you take down Assad. Two, you take out Nursa, which is comprised mostly of those who killed numerous U.S. troops in Iraq, and 3, isolating Hezbollah, who sent over 5000 fighters to back Assad. From a strategic military standpoint, this is a fascinating gift presented on a golden platter.

Israel will most likely disagree with you. Weakening Hezbollah is an advantage, not an endangerment. And Iran is going through a presidential election right now, with the mass majority supporting a softened stance on resisting nuclear oversight.

and "Silver Platter" we've been given. I doubt it viewing history of this type of intervention by us in planning "limited wars" but obviously there is some strong backing you have for your vision.

Works every time.

Why do we have such an addiction to war?

Arming rebels is quite different that moving troops in to the country.

I really don't think the public would support our sending in troops. Plus, I don't think we have any to spare after all these years at war. It would really bring out huge demonstrations, IMO.

Everything I have read/heard said small weapons, not even anti-aircraft. And the no-fly zone is still being considered. I don't think the sky is falling. Yet.

And if Booz Allen Hamilton is happy, the owners of War Inc are happy.

For some satanic reason, they know war means money.

I am sickened at the corruption and how it has fed and lived and grown at every level.

Some will unpack their appropriate smilies in row and rows but I really think there is some serious power grabbing here to undermine the President. Laugh away, but I still believe Obama is a decent person and is genuinely trying to do the right thing where he can, how he can and I can't believe the opposition he has had to face all this time from all sides. I hope this news is not as bad as it seems and that there are also powerful people working under the story with Obama to keep the Clinton and McCain wishes to a minimum.

But I also believe that McCain and Clinton are scum sucking fuckwads of the highest order.