of major concern.

I was under 30. It's C- snark.

Most of the best people are there. Wish I was.

I miss having all that energy to burn.

Guess they're saving her for when he really gets into trouble.

...said it was typical of the mindset to focus on his girlfriend or what he said when he was 17 rather than focus on the massive violation of the Constitution...

Maybe he is the pole dancer. Has anyone seen them together? Photos can be faked.

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is his dance costume.

I was wondering how he gets by in Hong Kong.

Waiting for this to get an alert

In the book, there's a phrase "turnkey tyranny" that's he's repeated and the rwnj's are quoting prolifically. Apparently the "cap" of liberty is a red cape and refers to slaves in Roman times. Once they were freed they were given a "cap of liberty" Just thought i'd pass that on. He also borrows the phrase "architecture of oppression" which is a book about the Nazi SS using slave labor to build up Germany. It's also the name of a death metal band.
He's not even original.

I'll look up Cap of Liberty.

Guy seems to live part time in fantasy, he's a role playing games fan I hear

That will keep in busy in hiding in China for months, or in prison if he's allowed to have a computer

Japanese anime. I thought that's why he went to Japan or sought out a Japanese assignment. That still may very well be true, but Japan did have a major gov't hacking incident on or about the time he left. Oddly enough, Switzerland had the same thing on or about the time he left. It could be sheer coincidence. I would have thought more of those would have happened, but with the Swiss they only had one major (gov't involved) and then something recently. The Japanese hacking occurred in the few months before he left with the first hitting major industrial and the last with the government including their upper and lower houses of parliament. I also find his Hawaii assignment interesting. He had already contacted the reporters supposedly ready to "spill the beans" before taking that assignment. I was curious about his taking a job after that, but I thought either he was talked into or decided himself to get more proof. I heard from someone recently that Hawaii is where we intercept communications from East Asia so that's even more curious to me. I'm not a conspiracy nut, I know there could be alternative explanations but there are several things to find curious.



Did you see the Big Bird cartoon that shows Big Bird talking to Mitt Romney with the caption "Who's got the job now bitch" LOL

Making the smear-merchants look like the idiots they are whilst giving a wink to the younger crowd...Nice to see that he's been able to maintain a sense of humour...

at least not compared with most British humor it was a C-

The British know from snark, they invented it

...but it was a decent shot considering his circumstances...

he certainly wouldn't be advertising it.

I believe he's sincere about wanting his message to come out. And he knows his message would have zero credibility if he were making it from a palace while patting a phoenix.

I've always thought he was sincere -- but that doesn't preclude him from also being a grandiose narcissist; or from the possibility that he's going to gain materially from the thousands of documents he's admitted to stealing.

And I've always made a distinction between his revelations about surveillance within the US -- which might be justifiable, depending on what is finally revealed to be the truth -- and those he made to the Chinese newspaper about hacking. The latter, even if true, is inexcusable, IMO.

I don't know if I can excuse the latter, but I am glad that it all came to light, so I guess while I don't like that he did things that went beyond the letter of the law, I'm glad he upheld the spirit of it. If that makes sense? I doubt we will be agreeing on this subject any time soon, but it is nice to know you have an open mind like I do, even though we disagree.

is that so many people jumped to automatically take some position or other. Here on DU of course, many people instantly called him a hero. But after all the fake scandals we've been put through for the past few months, starting with Benghazi, I wanted to take more of a wait-and-see attitude. Was he for real or not? And why would anyone so concerned about our personal liberties throw himself on the mercy of China?

I was impressed, at first, when he claimed that, unlike Manning, he had been very selective about which documents he released -- and it appeared that he only had that 41 slide power point presentation. And then he gave that interview to the Chinese newspaper while Obama was negotiating with the Chinese about hacking, and announced that he actually had thousands of documents. Bad move.

But I still haven't made up my mind about his claims about US surveillance because the facts are in such a state of flux. (The Nadler situation being a prime example. I wish Nadler would address all this more. Has he really "walked back" his earlier claims, or not?)

With regard to the Chinese hacking documents, I AM very worried about the other documents Snowden claims to have and wonder what he plans to do with them.

To see what he does with the documents he claims he has. That could be a deal breaker on the side of "traitor" vs. "whistle blower".

So it could be a long time before this is all over.

entire stay and return ticket. Greenwald mentioned a couple of days after his arriving that he was running out of money? Hmmm

Any proof out there?

Anyone?

Not rumors. Not quotes from Dick Cheney, not insinuations from an organization that just got pantsed, exposed violating the Constitution and is now expressing butthurt. PROOF.

Anyone?

Bueller?

He's relying on the slow wheels of justice between the Chinese authority and Hong Kong authority. When that goes against him he'll cut a deal, imo.

Nice to know you're a fan of prosecuting pre-crime.

That says he was currying favor

Stop smearing and prove it.

You're only demeaning yourself.

My respect for you is diminishing every second.

if his goal is to protect Americans.

He has a huge reason to curry favor, he said in his comments that if he'd picked Iceland Obama would have put on the screws. He's certainly interested in not be apprehended. That doesn't mean he's a spy but he threw China a bone.

He went to Hong Kong, which is reevaluating its extradition rules, which could take years, and where he can make his extradition fight and application for asylum public.

Again, you're insinuating, not proving.

Show documentation. Last chance.

I've had enough of you.

have been given a visa to China without raising suspicion. I think that's the real reason he went to Hong Kong. But i'll tell you right now, I think he's a Chinese agent or someone who was turned by China.

He must be there on a tourist visa.

If that isn't transparent I will tend to agree with your assessment.

They don't owe him anything.

The only other scenario is if a third country offers asylum, if so I'd tend to believe this guy a tad more, that is if he takes it, moreso if it's an unpleasant location!

6. It will be interesting if this goes past the three month mark.

Let's get Batman. Remember in the good one (the Joker one) how he extracted that banker guy who was hiding out in Hong Kong?

Do you really require me to use the "Satire smiley" and thus commit a grave crime against Comedy?

"democrats" for pre-crime!

Journalistic independence and all that over in Hong Kong. Learn something new every day.

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Welcome to 2013. I realize you may be like the fish that doesn't know what water is, but it's time you did.

But to take on the irrelevant point you have decided to make: The NY Times is not owned by the government, but it has been demonstrably run by the government on a tragic number of documented occasions. Every hear of Judy Miller? Ever hear of the decision to spike the warrantless surveillance story until after the 2004 election? Ever read the pretty much daily State Department/CIA/White House high-level press releases run in the Times and credited to "senior officials" or "The Times has obtained documents showing..." How come when somebody at the Pentagon or White House discloses highly classified information (actually scare propaganda against the enemy of the day, Iran, Pakistan, Chavez, whatever, but classified nevertheless), the NYT runs that without investigating it? Also, how come that's not called a leak? It's funny what qualifies as a leak, isn't it now? Lies from the top in a convenient "disclosure" to the Times, not a leak. Truth from the bottom, leak leak leak!!!

and got every reporter's email and password. It happened shortly after they started a story about a Chinese politician and how he had amassed a 2 billion dollar fortune. China and/or N Korea hacked into computers involved with the James Rosen case. He is the one who reported the US had an agent inside the N Korean government. The woman who worked with him on that story was trying to blame the Admin and d.o.j.. They got a warrant for Rosen, it's pretty clear they didn't need to hack if they wanted the info.

...the Chinese can take the info and still boot him out of country.

No one asked if he was a Chiense spy

but the questionaries aren't running this show.

what do you think he'd do.. this is pretty clear, and problematic

AFAIK phoenixes don't exist, not even in China.

If it was misspoken, it's the first case of it I've seen with him.

This PHOENIX, right here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program

The circumstantial evidence that the Bush Administration revived the assassination program and pursued it in Iraq is very strong, in my own opinion.

The phrase makes little sense unless one views it as a reference to the assassination program.

I think Snowden was saying that he would have been "phoenixed" if he had tried to go directly to Beijing. But I also happen to think this whole thing is a Chinese response to the US noting Chinese human rights abuses on the anniversary of the Tienanmen Square crackdown. I don't think Mr. Snowden is going to be leaving Chinese territory ever again, despite his own cryptic statement.

So, you know, I'm crazy, until I'm proven totally correct long after anyone cares anymore.

nt

Without passing through the US or Canada and without rousing suspicion because you're flying six flights through Argentina?

The point was much more important that Iceland can be pressured by the US state a lot more easily than China.

And, obviously, he fucking knows how to play poker a lot better than the Harvard Wannabes who talk about his GED. (Talk about un-American, by the way! Here's a guy who made it on meritocratic terms starting from nothing, and they call him a high school dropout.)

To the local authoritarians, of course, his best chip would have been to throw himself straight into prison and solitary confinement. That would have been courageous! True, less effective than a suicide bomber, but it's what Martin Luther King would have done, according to the local authoritarians.

Meanwhile, the NSA is UP EVERYONE'S ASS, does it matter? Are we a nation of sheep? Looks like it!

Last edited Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:43 PM - Edit history (1)

and if you cant spell the conditions hes "suffering" from mr psychiatrist then its best not to diagnose people by remote viewing.

why so scared "bro"?

when people start ranting and raving and bend themselves into all kinds of shapes to avoid talking about the leaks themselves.
when people only wish to talk about the messenger and the messenger of the messenger instead of about the leaks themselves.
when people are suddenly experts in psychology and psychiatry, but cant see their own cognitive dissonance.
when people desperately parse and twists words said, or lie outright and put words into the mouths of the messenger.
when democrats see reds under the beds.

thats fear talking, fear and desperation.
im not a 12 year old, i have seen it all before.

spelling- or grammar-retentive as a technique of argument. It's beneath me. So, let's ignore each other. Bye bye.