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KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 05:58 PM Jun 2013

Snowden Admits There Are Restrictions. Offers No Proof Of Abuse. He Is An Idiot.

"The restrictions against this are policy based, not technically based, and can change at any time."

The Govt. has technically based capabilities to do many things that are prevented by policy protections. That' how society and laws work.




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Snowden Admits There Are Restrictions. Offers No Proof Of Abuse. He Is An Idiot. (Original Post) KittyWampus Jun 2013 OP
So you're still waiting for all the facts to come in before coming to a conclusion. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #1
YUP ... the bank teller is only supposed to look at your balance JoePhilly Jun 2013 #2
As long as governments, companies, and individuals use computer systems pnwmom Jun 2013 #41
Yes ... and the auditing technology is there ... but its usually JoePhilly Jun 2013 #56
Then repeat. pnwmom Jun 2013 #62
A man with such a low sense of self-worth, he came to believe he knows better than everyone else. randome Jun 2013 #3
Fuded no doubt Cheap_Trick Jun 2013 #23
The potential for abuse is inherent in what he said magellan Jun 2013 #4
As long as there are computer systems there is a potential for abuse. pnwmom Jun 2013 #43
So don't bother protecting the data? magellan Jun 2013 #60
Of course you should. pnwmom Jun 2013 #61
That's exactly why they shouldn't be relying on POLICY restrictions magellan Jun 2013 #64
Technical security isn't difficult to "subvert" when those in charge pnwmom Jun 2013 #65
It's better than wide open 24/7 no matter who's in charge. n/t magellan Jun 2013 #66
I agree. avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #54
And btw, he himself is the proof that abuse can happen. n/t magellan Jun 2013 #5
Seriously how do people not see what is staring them in the eye? dkf Jun 2013 #7
short answer: THEY ARE STUPID Skittles Jun 2013 #52
What 'proof'? All he had access to were internal NSA documents. randome Jun 2013 #19
Including a top secret FISA court order magellan Jun 2013 #29
That's the point. There are only suggestions, no evidence of his outrageous claims. randome Jun 2013 #33
Can you please describe what the president's email magellan Jun 2013 #34
Even something heavily redacted would have been more believable than a goddamned PowerPoint slide! randome Jun 2013 #37
Sure it would magellan Jun 2013 #39
And I truly do not understand why believing someone without evidence is so easy for some. randome Jun 2013 #45
So is he "without evidence" magellan Jun 2013 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author magellan Jun 2013 #49
He has adult onset epilepsy. It can change mood, personality, even MADem Jun 2013 #67
This message was self-deleted by its author magellan Jun 2013 #34
He has a list of targets someone was reviewing. dkf Jun 2013 #53
Absolutely! Where is the proof! Whisp Jun 2013 #38
Ah so you think he was entitled to see everything he is leaking then? dkf Jun 2013 #6
I just read your identical post in another thread... Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #8
In marketing and in propaganda repetition IS magical Dragonfli Jun 2013 #44
I appreciate that someone on DU is waiting for the facts and keeping an open mind on this issue Fumesucker Jun 2013 #9
you forgot warrprayer Jun 2013 #18
lol - he published the scum sucking losers own TOP SECRET documents on TOTAL SURVEILLANCE usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #10
Whadda Load! Vanje Jun 2013 #11
Wow, just drop the pretense, there isn't much left Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #12
Thats not in the talking points.... Vanje Jun 2013 #17
So true! reformist2 Jun 2013 #21
I imagine the critics could then offer their own proclamations of love LanternWaste Jun 2013 #26
Excellent point Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #28
Go back in the archives and check the primaries sometime, some of that was even worse. Dragonfli Jun 2013 #47
Dean/Clark. Clinton/Obama dkf Jun 2013 #55
And the people who... 99Forever Jun 2013 #13
That is a very good question. randome Jun 2013 #22
Why not? Daniel537 Jun 2013 #31
He said "I'm not trying to hide from justice here." randome Jun 2013 #32
he did it the Rosa Parks way, ya know. Whisp Jun 2013 #42
That's a story in itself 99Forever Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #24
No, they're the lowest bidder. baldguy Jun 2013 #57
A thread from the 2nd most informed person on DU; all others are tied for first. byeya Jun 2013 #14
what an enormous load of Bull Crap! MNBrewer Jun 2013 #15
True, but they have spreaders far superior to the OP Dragonfli Jun 2013 #48
An idiot warrprayer Jun 2013 #16
Well that stirred up some dust didn't it. ucrdem Jun 2013 #20
DU rec...nt SidDithers Jun 2013 #25
I'm curious. Why are you so determined to run down Snowden? scarletwoman Jun 2013 #27
Wow, you've convinced me. Daniel537 Jun 2013 #30
Kick Scurrilous Jun 2013 #36
God, you're really down to "he's an idiot!" in thread titles? Marr Jun 2013 #40
k&r Whisp Jun 2013 #46
Those government nukes lack technical limitations as well BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #51
Spying on civilians is "Policy based". Oh joy. Vanje Jun 2013 #58
Secret laws and secret "courts" are NOT "policy protections". Vanje Jun 2013 #59
Question, What do you think about the ACLU's current lawsuit on the matter... allin99 Jun 2013 #63

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
2. YUP ... the bank teller is only supposed to look at your balance
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:01 PM
Jun 2013

when they are actually helping you.

Doesn't mean they CAN'T look at the finances of their neighbors. They are not supposed to, and can get fired for doing so.

And in all of these cases, technology mechanisms are always being added, so that audits of access can be conducted and those who abuse their access authority can be identified and stopped, and if appropriate, prosecuted.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
41. As long as governments, companies, and individuals use computer systems
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:35 PM
Jun 2013

the technology will provide the means for potential abuse.

Policy is everything.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
56. Yes ... and the auditing technology is there ... but its usually
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 09:19 PM
Jun 2013

a couple steps behind.

Put the policy in place, and improve the auditing.

Then repeat.



 

randome

(34,845 posts)
3. A man with such a low sense of self-worth, he came to believe he knows better than everyone else.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:02 PM
Jun 2013

Unless China tires of him, this will drag on for months.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

magellan

(13,257 posts)
4. The potential for abuse is inherent in what he said
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:07 PM
Jun 2013

If there were technical restrictions -- encrypted databases, flags on anyone who accesses classified data -- those would be a lot harder to get around and change than relying on policy, which can change at any moment depending on who's in power (or who's asking), and does nothing to stop anyone with the proper clearance from accessing what they shouldn't.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
43. As long as there are computer systems there is a potential for abuse.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:37 PM
Jun 2013

It's inherent in the technology.

magellan

(13,257 posts)
60. So don't bother protecting the data?
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 10:25 PM
Jun 2013

Particularly when you know it's classified, sensitive, personal information on virtually every American and there are things you can do to safeguard it?

BAH's revenue for fiscal year 2013 was $5.76 Billion, and it's profits were $219 Million. I think at the very least they can afford to properly protect the data they're handling. And they're just ONE contractor. We have no idea how the other contractors are handling our information.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
61. Of course you should.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 10:47 PM
Jun 2013

But anything can during this administration can easily be undone by the next. This will be a constant battle between "bad" and "worse."

magellan

(13,257 posts)
64. That's exactly why they shouldn't be relying on POLICY restrictions
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 10:53 PM
Jun 2013

It's much easier to change/ignore policy than it is to subvert technical security when done right.

 

avaistheone1

(14,626 posts)
54. I agree.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 09:17 PM
Jun 2013

Where the hell is the oversight? There certainly has been a lot of silence on that score.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
19. What 'proof'? All he had access to were internal NSA documents.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:29 PM
Jun 2013

Where is the President's email he said he could so easily access? Where is anybody's email that he said he could so easily access?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

magellan

(13,257 posts)
29. Including a top secret FISA court order
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 07:21 PM
Jun 2013

You think it's usual for an analyst in HI to have access to something like that? It doesn't suggest to you that he could have looked at anything he liked?

I doubt he's going to disclose someone's email since part of his issue is how insecure our private data is. And I doubt that any proof would be enough for some.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
33. That's the point. There are only suggestions, no evidence of his outrageous claims.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 07:34 PM
Jun 2013

If he had access to the President's email as he said, why didn't he snag one for us?

All we have to go on is his word that he "saw things" as he said. What things? He never specified!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

magellan

(13,257 posts)
34. Can you please describe what the president's email
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:04 PM
Jun 2013

...would have to display in order for you to believe it was the genuine article?

Then remember that everyone else would have access to that data as well.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
37. Even something heavily redacted would have been more believable than a goddamned PowerPoint slide!
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:28 PM
Jun 2013

He says he knows how the NSA is tapping into the Internet. Some schematics maybe? Diagrams?

He says the NSA can see our thoughts form as we type. Some explanation of how that occurs, maybe?

During the Q&A today, he changed what he said about 'direct access'. Now he says it refers to looking at the phone metadata where before he claimed the NSA watched and stored everything on the Internet on a daily basis.

Where is this storage? How is it searchable? Of course it's not even believable except in a Harry Potter novel.

He said he "saw things" during his career. What things? He has never specified!

If he was half the IT guru he portrays himself to be, he would have offered us technical knowledge of some sort to support his outlandish claims.

He has offered nothing except his word. And I am not going to take the word of someone hiding in Hong Kong.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

magellan

(13,257 posts)
39. Sure it would
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:33 PM
Jun 2013


I'm sorry some refuse to see what's right in front of them. And here, of all places.
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
45. And I truly do not understand why believing someone without evidence is so easy for some.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:39 PM
Jun 2013

I don't get it at all.

I think we would pay better homage to the concept of Progressive Thought -even basic scientific thinking- by looking at the evidence and going wherever it may lead.

There is practically no evidence to go on here except Snowden's word.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

Response to randome (Reply #45)

MADem

(135,425 posts)
67. He has adult onset epilepsy. It can change mood, personality, even
Tue Jun 18, 2013, 12:48 AM
Jun 2013

judgment capability and intelligence.

I have to wonder if his decision to pack up, run to Hong Kong, and do a Goodbye Cruel World had anything to do with emotional lability as a side effect of his brand-new diagnosis of epilepsy.

Response to randome (Reply #33)

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
38. Absolutely! Where is the proof!
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:33 PM
Jun 2013

He could say that Obama really is a Muslim afterall!

and there are enough idiots to believe him, just on his word. cuz he's a hero and shit.

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
6. Ah so you think he was entitled to see everything he is leaking then?
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:14 PM
Jun 2013

Because I bet there were a whole lot of "policy restrictions" that he broke, but not much technology to stop it.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
8. I just read your identical post in another thread...
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:20 PM
Jun 2013

Repetition as if that action was somehow magical....

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
44. In marketing and in propaganda repetition IS magical
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:37 PM
Jun 2013

Repeat a slogan or lie enough times and many will start to believe it.
Spam is a technique, one that is being used here apparently.

Vanje

(9,766 posts)
11. Whadda Load!
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:23 PM
Jun 2013

Consider who makes the policy....(Hint: Its not you or me.....Well, maybe thats not entirely true. I really dont know about you. It sure as fuck isnt me.)

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
26. I imagine the critics could then offer their own proclamations of love
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:52 PM
Jun 2013

I imagine the critics could then offer their own proclamations of love for Snowden and also be done with it. However, removing the postings of both petulant, child-like extremes would leave me with that much less to giggle at...

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
13. And the people who...
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:25 PM
Jun 2013

... vetted, hired and gave access to "classified information" to "An Idiot," are what?

Fucking geniuses?

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
22. That is a very good question.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:31 PM
Jun 2013

It still doesn't justify running to hide in Hong Kong, though.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
32. He said "I'm not trying to hide from justice here."
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 07:33 PM
Jun 2013

The guy has a loose screw or two.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
24. That's a story in itself 99Forever
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:35 PM
Jun 2013

The government/corporate intelligence industry is too vast for any semblance of accountability.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
20. Well that stirred up some dust didn't it.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:30 PM
Jun 2013

Anyway, thanks for a fresh revelation of the method. It's what Greenwald has been doing for at least four years. Very clever and oh so tasty.

K/R

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
27. I'm curious. Why are you so determined to run down Snowden?
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 06:53 PM
Jun 2013

Aren't you the least bit interested in considering the implications for democracy of the ever-expanding Surveilliance State? Does it not bother you at all that we are spending $billions on hiring private contractors to vacuum up ever more and more data? Is your witch hunt so emotionally all-consuming that you prefer it to the difficult exercise of taking a larger view of the state of our nation?

You post OP after OP full of bloodlust for tearing down a single person. I suspect it's because your worldview has been challenged - and you're totally invested in preserving it and denying all evidence to the contrary. You want to kill the messenger so you won't have to let go of your illusions.

I pity you.

 

Daniel537

(1,560 posts)
30. Wow, you've convinced me.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 07:23 PM
Jun 2013

Snowden, Bad. NSA, Good. Guess there's no need to ever discuss this topic again. Your wise words have settled this once and for all. Gracias!

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
40. God, you're really down to "he's an idiot!" in thread titles?
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 08:34 PM
Jun 2013

Just give it up. This is becoming sad.

Vanje

(9,766 posts)
58. Spying on civilians is "Policy based". Oh joy.
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 09:23 PM
Jun 2013

Who's fucking policy? They didnt ask me.
Did they ask you?

I trust the current administrations "policy" as far asw I can throw a piano.

Vanje

(9,766 posts)
59. Secret laws and secret "courts" are NOT "policy protections".
Mon Jun 17, 2013, 09:28 PM
Jun 2013

That is NOT how society and laws work . Society and laws work through transparency.

Do you really BELIEVE the swill you're dumping?
Jesus.


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