I've lost a few friends over the issue of student loans.

My stance: Use them for school. That's it.

What else are they being used for? Everything. They have become the equivalent of consumer credit cards. Don't believe me? Consumer credit debt was just surpassed by student loans...precisely because people are using these loans as credit cards.

Why do I care? Because the very people who disagree with me will ultimately be hurt. A coworker's wife has racked up over $200k. He was upset last summer, when his wife couldn't enroll in a summer class, because he lost several thousand dollars out of his summer budget, since she couldn't get loans. I think he has this backwards...he and his wife should not budget the loans for the grocery bill and part of the rent. Its a trap that he is falling into. The only difference between this trap and the Visa trap - he can never discharge these loans in bankruptcy.

I'm quite sure that some of the very banks which have lowered his credit card spending limit are the backers of some of his wife's loans...happy to lend on those, since he can never get out of it.

Sure the interest rate matters - but the real problem, IMHO, is using the loans for living expenses.

They're bright and have a great academic record in HS, got great scores on their SATs. They have an opportunity to go to a great state or private university, but their family doesn't have the cash.

They take out student loans for tuition, books, and -- Horrors upon HORRORS!!!! -- room and board.

Bad students!!!! They should live on the street while they're studying mathematical physics or molecular genetics so they can change the world.

Bad! Bad!

Work study or part time work.

Go to a cheaper community college for two years then transfer to a state university.

Coming out with 200k in student loans is a choice (a horrible choice) that people make on their own.

So the most talented of this country's youth should learn work at McDonald's or WalMart or wait tables (the kind of jobs students get) while they're trying to learn quantum field theory?

Of course, you do know that one cannot earn a living wage at such jobs, don't you? So maybe they need to take on multiple jobs to do so?

The problem with student debt isn't the students. It's the predatory lenders. For Christ sakes, Wall Street is bundling student loans into bonds just like they bundle mortgages. And they are getting rich on them. And the Republicans want the interest rates to go up.

Please, get some perspective on what is really going on here. Stop blaming the victim, the bright students who have to mortgage their futures to do something fulfilling.

The system is fucked. What would you do if your daughter or son was brilliant and wanted to change the world? Tell them to get a job at WalMart and earn their way?

You know there are scholarships for people that are as gifted as the student you are describing. Also if they are so brilliant and can ace community college they can get scholarships at a state university.

There is absolutely no reason that anyone should take out 200k in student loans ESPECIALLY if they cannot afford to take out 200k in student loans.

It is the quantity of loans I am debating here. Paying off $20,000 in loans is much different than paying off $200,000 in loans once you get a "real job"

But no more. Since the Republicans have gutted education support; they even want to eliminate the Department of Education, and destroy the teachers unions, and privatize the public schools so they can teach creationism in biology class, and, and, and, and, and.

There is little left of support for bright students other than loans. The grant money has been cut off, and in case you haven't been paying attention, so are scholarships. The competition for scholarships is fierce to the point of being unhealthy, mainly because it's a dry well.

This country is selling its future in education. If you cannot see it, I don't know what else to say to you.

I also learned Maxwell's equations, differential and integral calculus, circuit theory, mechanics and a lot of other engineering courses while I was working part time. It can be done.

"So the most talented of this country's youth should learn work at McDonald's or WalMart or wait tables (the kind of jobs students get) while they're trying to learn quantum field theory? "

My father has a PHD in Physics, and he mowed lawns and did just about every odd job you can think of while he was in school.

It didn't hurt him one bit.

Now this was before the student loan program, as we know it today, existed...and guess what...people found a way.

"The problem with student debt isn't the students. It's the predatory lenders"....I challenge you to ask yourself: "Who is the gatekeeper in this system?" Who is the seasoned and reasoned voice, who counsels the young student not to get too far in debt.

I can tell you who is NOT the reasoned voice, telling students not to get too involved with 'predatory' lenders - school officials. They are incentivized to get you to borrow as much money as possible, to spend on tuition. To them, you are nothing more than a warm body, a conduit through which loaned funds come to their school. They hope you pay for a few semesters, don't even go to class, and wash out...because they've overbooked all the lectures and labs, counting on your failure. So go ahead, and rail against the lenders...but there is another complicit partner in this scheme.

"Please, get some perspective on what is really going on here"....I don't know how old you are, but I suspect you may have a relative that is student age. Here's some advice, some 'perspective' really: life isn't fair. Its not. And not everybody will have an easy route through college. That's the perspective. The government could guarantee these loans at 2 points below prime, and they would still be a dangerous gamble for most students. Its really not beneath anyone to work at WalMart or McDonalds...or both at the same time. Its not fair...but that's some perspective on how the world really works.

Here's my story. First generation college graduate from Northwestern University class of 1997. At this stage of my life I'm doing pretty well.

During my four years I had an academic scholarship and financial aide. I had a work study job my frshman and sophmore years. My junior year I added a pizza delivery job. My senior year I added the job of live-in nanny. (I never subtracted jobs, just kept adding)

I graduated with $20,000 of student load debt. I'll be 38 next month. I took a couple of deferrments in my early 20s as I did some unpaid internships in Hollywood while living at home. I have around $4,000 to go. This debt has been with me my entire adult life.

I was in Medill. I transfered out at the end of my sophomore year because I didn't know how I was supposed to afford to live off campus for the semester needed for Teaching Magazine. I never applied for internships or study abroad programs because I couldn't afford them. In hindsight, I could have gotten more financial aide, but like I said, I was a first generation college student. I didn't know a lot about this process.

I'm fine letting a kid get a job while in school. Of course, at schools like Northwestern, part of the job is networking which I bombed since...I was working crappy jobs and playing poker with the guys from Dominoes pizza. (No joke.)

This is not the way of the future.

A friend of mine worked full time and went to night school to get pre-requisites out of the way...and even had to care for a new baby during this time. Next, he worked like crazy, to save up enough cash to go for 18 months, heavy course load, and get an engineering degree. He's now much more successful than me, and I really admire him for sticking to his plan.

My own case - I used the Army, and paid them back via 5 years of my life.

My brother - went to a school nobody has ever heard of, on an athletic scholarship (in soccer of all things), and lived at home most of the time.

My sister - lived with my dad, alternated between working and going to school, finished when she was 29 years old.

There is ALWAYS a way. (BTW wouldn't your theroretical wiz kid be eligible for some academic scholarship money?, which is another route).

Now you have a reaction very similar to others I have talked to....and you take umbrage at my suggestion to only use student aid for student related expenses. And, in typical fashion, you set up a hyperbolic situation that can only be solved by using student loans as a credit card (living on the street).

But here's what you haven't done: explain to me how I'm wrong. If I told you that I had racked up $40k in credit card debt, to pay the rent and buy groceries, while going to school, would you think that was a wise decision?

I hope not.

Its a terrible decision...and I am only punishing my own self by doing that (btw, I speak from experience as someone who has dug out of $55k in credit debt). Trust me - you are punishing the hell out of your own self by doing this.

So, how is racking up $40k in student loan debt, for expenses not related to tuition and books, any better?

Its not. Its worse, since you can't discharge these in bankruptcy.

Here's another way of looking at it - education is an investment. You can expect a return on every dollar spent for tuition. Is pizza an investment? No. It consumer spending. You should never borrow for consumer spending - again, I have experience in this area.

So what if you can't afford to eat? Well, to steal a quote, 'Horrors upon HORRORS!!!!' - take a semester off, and work as many part time jobs as you can find.

Back to my co-worker, with $200k plus in debt for his wife's school. He's in his mid 40's (so is his wife). He is slowly starting to see things my way...as he is beginning to understand that he will never have any possessions. He will never own a house...he will always have beater cars....all because his wife's education bill/consumer credit bill will eat away at his income until he is close to retirement age. And here is the real kicker...a genuine 'horror'...he has effectively stolen his children's future. He has put himself to be in a position to never be able to assist his children with educational expense in any way whatsoever. They will be past college age before he pays off these debts.

Anyway, I'm not being heartless when I tell people not to use loans as a credit card. Quite the reverse actually. I elongated thing by giving 5 years to the Army...my sister spent 7 years longer than she normally would...this is unacceptable to some people. All I can say is - think about how many years are lost, when you are in debt beyond your wildest dreams, and on a 15 year payoff plan.

thanks ProSense