General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf Snowden is an enemy of the state and cannot be feasibly apprehended...
Can you tell me anything that the Administration has said that would suggest that they don't have every right (that they have claimed) to take him out with a drone strike or other measure?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)So that could be seen as a win, win.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Cheers!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)The admin claims they only drone terrorists. I don't believe Snowden has been referred to as a terrorist by the government.
snot
(10,538 posts)He's certainly being called a terrorist by others.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)delrem
(9,688 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)taterguy
(29,582 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)And about other measures? Here is what an NSA whisteblower answered when asked what Snowden could expect
Binney: First tortured, then maybe even rendered and tortured and then incarcerated and then tried and incarcerated or even executed.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023041294#post142
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)In what course of ongoing and imminent violent hostilities is he engaged?
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Was his son an "imminent threat"? Has any such proof ever been requested or demanded? In what form?
If the son was an accident, why no apologies or reparations?
With no requirement for proof of such a thing and with no demands for them by the people, any action is possible with a mere statement that such a threat was indeed posed.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)However, it is indisputable that Snowden is not.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)We have no "standing" or "recourse" to dispute ANY piece of information that is fed to us as support for a non-judicial means of state execution.
If we were told that there was reliable intelligence that Snowden was planning on revealing to the Chinese information that was going to endanger thousands of citizens by revealing nuclear power plant security information and that he MUST be stopped before he does so, we would not be in any position to argue.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I don't.
I guess we'll just have to disagree about that.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)But I am pointing out that we are not, nor is any judicial body, given the opportunity to "dispute" after-the-fact explanations for this kind of state-execution.
In simpler terms, "think" ain't got nuthin' to do with it.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Could be a long wait. Bring an extra pack of smokes.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)"indisputable fact" is not the same as "not yet disputed".
"Fact" is not the same as "I think so"
"White House announced" is not the same as "provided evidence"
Let me know if there is anything else I can help with.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)there is no requirement for "ongoing violent action" against the US to get a visit from a drone.
Here are Obama's own words,
When a U.S. citizen goes abroad to wage war against America and is actively plotting to kill U.S. citizens and when neither the United States, nor our partners are in a position to capture him before he carries out a plot his citizenship should no more serve as a shield than a sniper shooting down on an innocent crowd should be protected from a swat team, Obama said, adding that he would have been derelict in his duty if the U.S. did not take action against al-Awlaki.
To date, I do not believe that the Obama Admin. has provided any evidence that al-awlaki or his son had a plot to kill Americans.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)They were just doing their thing, OK. In which case, why did Obama kill them? Just for shits and giggles? To scare you?
disidoro01
(302 posts)This american teenager.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2097899,00.html
A 16-year-old American boy killed in an Obama administration drone strike "should have [had] a far more responsible father," Obama campaign senior adviser Robert Gibbs says in a new video released by the group We Are Change.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)based solely on your hunch that he would only do it because they had it coming, so be it! I happen to prefer the age old practice of trials and juries and judges and shit like that.
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)Al-Awlaki was a dual citizen. Yemen and the US. He was tried in Yemen and the judge ordered that he be captured "dead or alive". He also lied twice about his citizenship here. He attended college on a foreign student visa with a scholarship from the Yemeni government. He also lied about his citizenship on a social security application. His roles in several plots have in fact been shown. His emails with the Ft Hood shooter have come out in his trial. Al-Awlaki has many videos and articles on the internet supporting and asking for the killing of Americans, jihad, etc. He had ties to charities that were fronts for terrorists. When he was an Imam he had two of the 9/11 hijackers, the underwear bomber, the Ft Hood shooter and others as his students.
The idea that there wasn't evidence of his plans are laughable. Congress asked You Tube to take his videos down. Also, it's long been considered that someone who "takes up arms" against the US or joins a foreign army has given up their citizenship. After being overseas training with and for Al Qaeda, he couldn't expect that he was still a US citizen. His father tried to go to court for him, so it's not like he didn't know.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)FTFY...
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)If he was in a tiny, voiceless nation.. who knows what his status would be by now.
wandy
(3,539 posts)The ones he should worry about would be Booz Allen Hamilton.
Weather you think Snowden is a hero or a villain it's Booz Allen Hamilton that has egg on their face.
Their the ones that stand to loose some big bucks.
If they think he can do them any further damage.....
They don't gots to worry bout no stinking diplomatic immunity.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)It's almost as if they don't notice how scary it is.
"I don't think the President will, on his authority alone and with no evidence before OR after, decide that he should be executed."
Oh Jesus, it is scary to watch them frogs boiling...
Rex
(65,616 posts)China might fight back.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2013, 03:43 AM - Edit history (1)
Tiger. Said a famous general before Truman shitcanned his insubordinate ass.
Whence the origin of 'Support Our Oops!'
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)No, there is nothing they can do but charge him. He could be on the run for a very long time assuming either he gets granted refugee status somewhere or finds someone who is wealthy with connections that can get him moved around and make him disappear. Too many possibilities to think of.
LeftInTX
(25,551 posts)Unless he was in some Mid-East country, a drone strike would cause the country to retaliate.
If he goes to Iceland at least it will squelch some of the Chinese spy fear.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I don't think we want to attack China.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)You don't see that line as now being dangerously thin and hard to read?
What if it was announced that he was going to give away the keys to our entire FBI triple top-secret bloggedy blah?
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)and I see no need to invent hypothetical scenarios to worry about. There is enough wrong already.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Or do we just have to take the word of our government?
Yemeni Government Covers Up U.S. Responsibility for Civilian Drone Deaths
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022321462
Following a 2009 U.S. drone strike on the southern region of al-Majala, which resulted in the deaths of dozens of civilians, Yemens then-leader Ali Abdullah Saleh told then-U.S. Central Command chief Gen. David H. Petraeus, Well continue saying the bombs are ours, not yours. The assurance was made in a U.S. Embassy email, which was later disclosed by WikiLeaks.
cali
(114,904 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)What's next? Obama is a Reptiloid from Zeta Reticuli and therefore isn't a natural-born US citizen?
treestar
(82,383 posts)I think you actually want this to happen to Eddie so you can make him a martyr.
However, it will not. He's not engaged with Al Qaeda or the like. He's just guilty of some crime of revealing information he was not supposed to reveal by law.
FSogol
(45,525 posts)Dammit, this spaghetti isn't sticking to the wall. Try something else.