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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHasting's Death Needs Special Investigation
So far it is being treated as nothing special.
But there certainly are reasons that Hasting's death requires a careful and independent and thorough investigation.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)There are scads of DU'ers that have done put this baby to bed already. Nothing to see here!
Good post!
Cheers!
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)It really sucks to see so many here totally invested in quashing open minded thinking. They make DU suck.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Besides examining the car and doing a toxicology test, what else should they do?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)You can't think of any other things? That closed minded, are you?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Where would the facts take your 'special investigation?'
If the examiniation of the car shows no tampering, and his toxicology comes back Jack Daniels, where does the investigation go from there?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Glad that I could help you open your mind a wee bit. I am gratified. I realize that were I so inclined, and had hours of time, we could probably move you another few steps. But I'm not, not with you, anyway. You're on your own.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)"Looks like an accident, pending confirmation of toxicology and other tests."
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)mind, given the high rate of speed at which he was travelling when the accident happened.
I don't work in law enforcement and I have absolutely no idea how one would answer that question. But I think it needs to be asked.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)know in any event.
The witnesses who saw the car don't report another car coming behind it.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)possibility that Hastings was fleeing someone or something (or perhaps thought he needed to flee).
Again, I offer it merely as a suggestion of a question that should be asked and answered.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The paradox of an investigation into his death would be that the only source of information would be his own records. So, the only way to expand an investigation beyond the physical and eyewitness testimony would be for the government to go through all of his phone records, emails, web history, etc.
Which is problematic for obvious reasons.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)FBI might have an axe to grind and Lord knows the LAPD has its own checkered past.
The other thing I wondered about in passing is whether Hastings might have attempted a 9-11 call. Now we're back to telecom phone records. Argh!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The reason I asked upthread what kind of 'special investigation' would take place is that, beyond the crime scene stuff, it would be the governmental agency given free access to his records with authorization to go on numerous fishing expeditions.
"Did you talk to Mr. Hastings? What did you talk about? Who knew about your conversations with him?"
Etc etc.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Witnesses didn't report a car following him either.
Does that answer your question?
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)like to know why people are speeding at such high speeds if I can. OTOH, I see a lot of assholes driving at excessive rates of speed in LA every day and to my knowledge none are fleeing from anyone
zappaman
(20,606 posts)and accidents.
A friend of mine used to live nearby and said residents were always trying to get speed bumps installed, but it is a major N/S thruway so the speeding continues.
Also, a great place for speed traps. Cops are always out there writing tickets.
Unfortunately, not at 4AM on a Sunday morning it seems...
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)will be moved to install speed bumps there. Not holding my breath. (The weird thing is I could have sworn I remembered there were speed bumps there, but it's been quite awhile since I've been up that way.)
zappaman
(20,606 posts)It's far from the only accident there.
You are definitely thinking of another street. Unfortunately, I drive Highland almost every day. Especially now that LaBrea has so much construction going on...
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)to your recent first-hand experience.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)LaBrea is the worst it's ever been right now.
Side streets are my friend!
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)the 405, so I know whereof you speak (about side streets). (BTW: avoid the 405 exits\entrances onto Santa Monica Boulevard in Westwood if at all possible. That is a friggin' Blade Runner scene come to life.)
zappaman
(20,606 posts)I always avoid the 405, but lately it's been such a clusterfuck on every surrounding street with that neverending construction, I just don't go to the valley at all!
And yeah, I have heard the stories about that entrance...
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)as it sat at an intersection. She watched it fly down the street and then explode. She didn't mention anything about seeing any other car involved.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)a tragic accident and nothing more.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)some reasons to believe that they know why he was, as some have already stated, very concerned about the surveillance he was under?? Who would you believe then, them or the FBI?
We'll see, but much as people would like to put the whole tragedy to rest, unfortunately that isn't likely to happen, whether it is warranted or not. And the reason is that so many Americans have lost trust in their government and when a reporter who fearlessly reported facts that were inconvenient to the government, and we have leaks that reveal massive surveillance programs (the largest in history according to some analysts), a lot of people will need more than the world of the 'authorities' that there is nothing to worry about, rightly or wrongly.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)then further investigation would clearly be warranted.
chimpymustgo
(12,774 posts)How can we ever really KNOW the truth in the world we now live in?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)reasons for that. And nothing anyone says here can change the decades of built up mistrust that people feel. That is the price they pay for the myriad of lies that have been told to the people. And then they try to blame the people.
I have no idea what caused this terrible accident, it is likely that is what it was, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't open to it being more than just an accident. There was a time when I could not entertain such thoughts about our government, but I was very naive back then.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...a myriad of things. This needs to be treated as something special because of his occupation and his high profile. He pissed off VERY powerful people. They need to not Michael Connell this investigation....
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)...then isn't investigating death threats a waste of resources?
If there is evidence of outside forces causing the crash, then there is no reason to believe the case wouldn't be turned over to homicide division, and death threats investigated.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)as part of this investigation?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Who do you think should investigate?
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Hastings had many inside sources. Do you really think the FBI ignored that fact?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)will that satisfy you?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)When the FBI investigates the Bush crimes then can I really trust the FBI.
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)Trust the Government and stop outsourcing to private companies like Booz Allen Hamilton.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)That way we will know it's on the up and up.
BeFree to investigate and let us know!
FSogol
(45,525 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)But when the closed minded people invade and just throw crap, it sucks.
Open minded discussions about current issues and situations is what draws me to DU. What about you, Tarheel? What makes you keep coming back?
As for conspiracy theories, no cop worth his badge would ever discount a conspiracy until proven otherwise.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Or even the CT that the government was acquiring all this data.
Before there was evidence, these were CTs.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)1) a lowlife thug terrorist being involved in another murder is a mundane suggestion;
2) everyone knew the government was vacuuming up a bunch of data.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Is that a CT or does everyone know that?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)If it's electronic and passes through US territory, the feds are likely going to be able to access it.
dkf
(37,305 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)The supposedly new one NUCLEON, is on job qualifications lists posted online. So are others you haven't heard of, but I have and so have others.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)I say BeFree to let your freak flag fly high!!!
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Perhaps wait until its done and made public, before requesting a special investigation?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)That is not how a proper investigation is performed. What if all the cops did that? Why, that would be like how the FBI investigated their bosses, the Bush family back in 2001.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)No physical evidence so far this is a homicide case. So no need for accident investigators to be investigating death threats...that isn't their job. If any evidence surfaces of this being a homicide case, then I'm quite sure homicide detectives will be brought in.
Investigating the threats themselves is a separate issue, unless there is evidence of this being a homicide. Did Hastings report the death threats to police or FBI? Is there already an on-going investigation into them? If so, then it doesn't seem to be efficient to combine the two, let alone add another, unless evidence arises that would compel such action.
If there is reason to believe either accident investigators or death threat investigators have been not thorough, or acted improperly, then a special investigation is warranted. But that determination can't be made if current investigations are still on'going. Hell, its only been a couple days so far...
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)For introducing the evidence of death threats.
I wonder if the FBI is looking into those threats? Those threats could have come from across state lines, making FBI action actionable.
See, when we have open discussions about matters, new people can feel comfortable introducing other factors, like you have here. Very good work, hooptie.
Who was it that made those threats? That is a damn good question, eh?
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I don't know if he reported them to police or FBI, or the status of any possible investigation of them.
Still, the point remains that traffic accident invedtigators aren't equiped or trained to investigate death threats. If any evidence shows up this is a homicide case (accident investigators are equipped and trained to determine that) then the case will be turned over to homicide detectives, who will investigate the threats.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)DU is usually a great place
But when the closed minded people invade and just throw crap, it sucks.
Open minded discussions about current issues and situations is what draws me to DU. What about you, NightWatcher? What makes you keep coming back?
As for conspiracy theories, no cop worth his badge would ever discount a conspiracy until proven otherwise.
The Magistrate
(95,255 posts)You have been here about two years. The people disagreeing with you here, whom you refer to as people invading the place, seem to mostly have been here seven or eight or nine years. They would be within their rights to paraphrase your little schtick as:
"DU is usually a great place, but when credulous people invade and just throw crap, it sucks."
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)They were BeFree until shortly after DU3 went live, then abandoned that account and became Robert Earl.
Sid
Who knew?
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)No problem with that. There's no mechanism to change your screen name, other than abandoning an old account and starting a new one.
And there was only about 6 weeks or so when they were using both accounts.
Sid
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)Given the scandals were seeing, I think all possible efforts should be made to identify the cause of this accident and placate our concerns. We know they've lied to us, why should we trust them about this or anything else.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)I'm not glued to this story because there's so much going on but do you know of any further investigations? Thanks
zappaman
(20,606 posts)They investigation is not finished.
Why do you think it is?
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)they won't get toxicology reports for at least 3 weeks
For sure they know the public will be all over this so it will be a careful investigation I think and we're libruls in dis town hir
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)And I can't see a second accident investigation being started before the first is complete, nor homicide div being called in without any evidence this is a homicide case.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Even if the police and other authorities do a botched job, or attempt a cover up, you can be sure there will be some very high level, and highly efficient investigative reporters on the job. So anyone in the government who is involved in this investigation should realize that they had better do the best and most thorough job that they can. Everything they do and write down about it will be picked apart by some of the best journalists in the business. Mark my words.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)And that is part of the special investigation called for in my OP. I am sure they are already on the case. They will not sit around and wait for the ordinary investigation to tell them exactly how this happened.
Thanks for backing me up, Cleita.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)If the autopsy shows he died of a heart attack or that his blood alcohol was very high, I wouldn't see the need for a special investigation.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)people will say somebody drugged him or the coroner's report is falsified.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I thought you hated thinking of CT, yet here you are with your own special CT? ""...people will say....""
Dude, your flip-flopping is like looking at a fish out of water.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)An absence of evidence IS evidence in itself, thus its perfectly logical to conclude foul play
GeorgeGist
(25,323 posts)deurbano
(2,895 posts)the investigation is thorough, even if they have to do it, themselves.
<<LOS ANGELES (KTLA) The crash that killed journalist Michael Hastings was ruled an accident by police, but conspiracy theories continued to circulate on Friday....
...Staff Sgt. Joseph Biggs told KTLA that he received an email from Hastings on Monday.
Biggs had known Hastings since 2008, when the journalist was embedded in his unit in Afghanistan.
On Monday morning, I woke up and I got an email, and its very panicked, Biggs said.
He was blind-copied on the email, which was sent to Hastings colleagues.
In part, it said that the feds were interviewing his close friends and associates, and that he was onto a big story and needed to get off the radar.
The FBI has denied that Hastings was ever under investigation.
It alarmed me very much, Biggs said. I just said it doesnt seem like him. I dont know, I just had this gut feeling and it just really bothered me, he said.
The email was sent just before 1 p.m. on Monday, 15 hours before the deadly crash....
....Biggs said he just wants to know the truth about what happened to his friend.
Im going to be willing to help and do whatever I can and make sure that people look into this story and make sure they find out whatever happened.>>
Read more: http://ktla.com/2013/06/21/exclusive-hastings-sent-colleagues-email-hours-before-crash/#ixzz2WtN3qR8P
Also: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-hastings-crash-emails-20130621,0,2806628.story
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)That is a new piece of evidence, for me anyway.
This is what I love about DU, we can sit and discuss things and bring new items to everyone's attention.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Is that his car?
What is she doing there???
And what is in her hand???
You sir, may have solved this mystery!
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Some dude with a history of alcohol and drug abuse gets killed in a tragic car crash. Happens all the time. Why is this guy any different than the many others?
Oh, and did you hear that the Obama adminstration gave Breitbart a heart attack? It must be true, cuz some dude wrote it on the internet.
Here's his picture.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)obviously, knew too much.
You watch--it was the Clintons, for sure. Darrell Issa should investigate.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)& furious. I can't keep 'em...straight.
deurbano
(2,895 posts)My point was to convey to the OP that I believe Hasting's death will be thoroughly investigated, because his friends will make sure of that. I was reiterating what another poster had written, while linking to a article in which one of Hasting's friends confirmed that... and also revealed a disturbing email he had received from Hastings prior to his death.
I have not speculated about whether there was foul play. On the other hand, you seem to have concluded Hastings was suffering from paranoia. (And maybe he was, but at this point, that is also speculation.)
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Itchinjim
(3,085 posts)82....
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)that needs to be pursued and eliminated (and the staffer who made the threat busted down to buck private and sent to do a tour at Ft. Leavenworth busting up rocks).
BTW, I've been interacting with a couple people up thread but wanted to tell you that I commend your interest in this case. The best citizens are those who ask questions and don't give up easily.
Here's one question for you; what set of facts or evidence will it take to satisfy you that Hastings' death was a tragic accident? Is there any set of facts that would do so?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)before he died? If he was clubbing, the bars close at 2:00 AM in LA and actually you have a hard time getting a drink after 1:30 PM. So at that time many club goers go to breakfast, which could keep him out until 4:00 AM, but that would have sobered him up some so he would have been able to drive. If he wasn't clubbing, what the heck was he doing out at 4:00 AM and speeding around town like Bat Man? Another possibility is that he was at a private party, so why haven't there been any videos or tweets from people who saw him like usually happens after an incident with a somewhat well known personality? There are some really unanswered questions here.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)never are answered definitively. I've read somewhere (long since forgotten) that most homicide and suicide investigations leave at least one or two threads, unanswered questions where things just 'don't add up' neatly and conveniently. I suppose that would account for all of your questions. Maybe. But I hope Hastings' colleagues keep the lights on high, as it were, to make sure we get answers to as many questions as possible.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)First, it really doesn't matter what I think. Except that the man was in a place that I sometimes wished I could be. That would be: busting balls of the elite.
He was an investigator of the highest caliber, and I think he would want a high caliber investigation, if for nothing else than to prove that the elites of whose balls he busted, did not murder him.
flamingdem
(39,321 posts)If they don't claim conspiracy then either they're keeping it hushed up while they get their own investigation going or they know he was a reckless driver / drinker / drugger and just hope the autopsy doesn't prove it.
We'll know the score on this one long run I imagine.
Remember that there are things like Life Insurance and Car Insurance that play into the family remarks as well. But no mention of conspiracy says to me they know who his is and don't think what happened is impossible.
My guess is he was in and out of consciousness on drink / drugs but I'm willing to believe anything if there's enough evidence.
elfin
(6,262 posts)Just a suggestion based on knowing two young men who were creative, smart and ambitious to make a real difference in their respective fields - education and creative writing.
Both were hitting slowdowns in their goals and feeling that superiors did not totally support them. Both were well liked. Both hit a tree at high speed, driving alone at night.
No final explanation for either, but I was not the only one who wondered if they had been masking severe depression for some time.
I had a girlfriend who's mother did that with a light pole.
Awful, but happens more than people think...
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Not likely though.
Just sharing that that scenario does happen and I know someone it happened to.
That a problem?
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)... theorists to share and compare fact-free, wild-eyed speculations so more discerning folks don't have to be annoyed by it.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)That's where we could put all the "someone must have remote controlled his car/planted a bomb in his car/cut his brake lines/made his accelerator stick" possible plausible theories!
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)""someone must have remote controlled his car/planted a bomb in his car/cut his brake lines/made his accelerator stick"
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Things that other countries do But Not The US
In it would could discuss what the mafia does.
But not what the CIA does, unuhh.
And not what we train some military to do. Nope.
Just keep it US clean, because we know the US never, ever, wouldn't dare.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)There are many, many possible fields one could wander.
But that's not where I personally want to go. People would get upset and start pulling their hair out and calling me names. Heh.
I'm content with just making sure all fields of inquiry are walked by those whose business it is, and who we like to trust will cover all the bases before final conclusions are made.
longship
(40,416 posts)But as there are witnesses saying he was driving like a mad man, maybe he was just driving like a mad man.
As Monty Python might say, Stake Your Claim.
Sometimes people do dumb things, like running red lights at high rates of speed. It happens all the time in LA area.
William of Okham may have had something to say about this.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)JI7
(89,264 posts)because how can we trust an investigation by those we say wanted him dead.