NO it doesn't and it can't be, at least we have to do everything we can to fight these injustices, these monstrosities.

I've been proud to stand by your side in this fight and I will always be.

I'm concerned about your living situation. Please check your inbox dear Undergroundpanther.

"We have to save each other to save ourselves."

That's the simple truth of your brilliant rant.

They fear they could succumb to weakness.

they cannot love. They will not share,refuse to face what they are, they are petrified of differences,petrified of another's freedom to say no,they won't understand, don't want to care,so they do thier best to make us, like them . But they can't no matter how much they hurt us.

They aren't "stronger". They are a bunch of scared, ignorant cowards who fear everything and everyone that doesn't fit in their narrow, little worlds. What they are really doing is bullying people.

Some, not all but some, of these people are scared shitless deep inside. They hate this part of themselves, so they abuse the hell out of those who overtly show fear.

Sometimes I wonder if I could have escaped some of the childhood bullying by learning to act tough and appearing willing to fight back. Unfortunately I was raised by European immigrants who taught me to fear and respect teachers and other authority figures, and to be meek, passive and obedient. I was taught to never argue or fight back. In other words, I received the perfect training to be a bullying victim.

Undergroundpanther, I think there are a lot of people on DU who not only don't hate you, but actually like you.

It sucks. I am one to defy abusive people Even if it got me in trouble. I had a limit bully went past it they'd get hurt.But because I was different I didn't lead or follow,I was a target.

As for early childhood I had no example to know what was abusive or not to compare.So I got hurt and realized why, after that I tolerated it no more as much as I could.Sometimes I trigger become locked into the past and be passive.But I am aware of that now.I was only half aware half the time during the years of bullying.Much of my past is unknown to me.

...try and comprehend what drives the heartless bastards.

And you are absolutely correct that the world does not have to be like this, but sadly as long as we nothing but bullies on one side of the aisle, and spineless surrender monkeys on the other, the kind of REAL CHANGE, not campaign LIES, will not happen.

People have been trying to since ancient times.Maybe you should listen to the monsters themselves and what they say to explain themselves. Not after they are caught,but before..Like,because I can,I feel like it,or "you" made me do so and so,usually aimed at a person they've victimized in private. Could it be these empty hearted emotionally dead monsters in human suits do such evil becauuse they're bored and can get away with it?

You are seeing a sociopath from your own perspective. Too many people do that,and it helps the abuse continue.

Maybe WHY is the wrong question. Maybe the question we should be asking is Why do WE let this happen? Why do WE tolerate the intolerable behavior of some people.What good is it doing to help the world tolerating all this abuse by some people?

... sociopaths from my own perspective because it's the only one I have. I'm not sure where you got that I think it should be tolerated, when in fact, quite the opposite is true.

Yes our own perspective is what we have most the time,but we need to learn to step outside our own perspective sometimes.


How I do it is by imagining what if I were..__________ It is an excercise in knowing the 'other'. it cultivates awareness.But you have to be totally honest.


What if there were no limits on what I could do,If I wanted to do it I could. But avoiding all the people who might say I can't do____ becomes a game of how can I get away with___... ever notice how bullies build gangs around themselves by manipulating emotionally passive people? Soon others who share that sociopath way of thinking will join in the game all will build a posse it will become a huge game, with___ as victims. All that matters in that mindset is "winning" and building a posse to protect you from losses and those people that say you can't do____.

That's all social interaction can be to a person with dead emotions. A hallmark of sociopaths is emotional shallowness or deadness.

Perhaps I'm not expressing myself as well as I should.

But the simple answer is that if they have someone to look down on it makes them feel higher...They themselves are insecure.

are living in denial at their own peril. Because I desire justice and feel it tear at the very fabric of my being when I see someone being violated and abused, I know that it is elemental to this universe. I didn't create this longing for justice and by your words and others who have inspired me I know it exists independent of me. Even if its fruition were to take the lifetime of several universes, it still seems reckless and foolish to willingly cause others suffering and pain for the sake of personal pleasure and gain. True justice demands complete restitution.

Justice is making what is wrong,right. I desire justice I see everything used to block it,and I find those who fear justice ,mock it,undermine it,twist it,lie about it, try to disarm it are those violating and abusing life itself.

"Is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. . ."

Gluttony "Is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires"

People who crave power over others are afraid of losing statute, and their material things.

You are far from being alone in your reality. I believe the so called powerful loses sight of civil and compassionate reality.

they just happen to be in a position of advantage that allows them to kick those around who are not. Someone strong wouldn't feel the need to do that. They're just mean.

gives them some little justification in their cold hearts and that little bit is all they need. Its a sad and scarily place to be, yet so many people live there.

What you posted is complex, but like you, I believe there is hope.

but in my seeking I got abused by religious people and have decided organized religion is not for me. I do not believe,I seek..
Other than that a pedophile christian asshole abused me when I was a kid.
And yes I hate religion.I hate the books that are supposedly holy written by people that get used as tools of opression or social control.Any god with less moral character than I have is worthless.That is MOST gods. Including pagan ones. I am no worshipper. Christ says some very evil things and some insightful things.Most people who believe rather than seek rationalize away the ugliness written holy books.I mean c'mon APOLOGETICS..I do not rationalize it I discard it ,but take out what seems true.and I do not believe I seek.I explore the unknown in myself in the universe. I find what I find and ften attempting to build a "framework" fails so I do not believe,I seek.Reality changes information changes wisdom grows but it can't grow if faith is in the way.

When you mentioned PTSD, I wondered about religious sexual abuse. I do find that discipline helps, but when it is learned through Christian religion it is skewed and while it may benefit the individual it ends up hurting the culture, as the Christian religion has been co-opted by extremists.

Maybe that answers part of your original question. The strong are prejudiced against the weak because they have been portrayed by these extremists as unloved by god.

religious sexual abuse.also church abuse.Assemblies of god.


I don't think there is a god.

If there was and he let the innocent,the goodhearted,the gentle in this world suffer like this I would want to kill it. I don't want to think there is a god because the only god I see is a fucking asshole who put me in this body prison and did nothing to help me,nothing to tell me he was there,nothing to give me hope for a future or stop the abusers,nothing to stop anything bad from happening all over this planet . I am too cynical to hope for things unseen.Because the reason it's unseen bothers me.

I feel this not only for myself but for every suffering creature made to suffer here because of bad lazy cowardly evil people. I actually hate the concept of a god.

Because I am not bowing down to a monster that created this horrible world just so the good within it could be abused.I don't care about heavens or hells.I want to be out of this fucking body cage ,crammed on this rock with so many assholes and too few good people around. I don't want this body,don't want this life,don't want to compete,fight,struggle stress and hurt and pay the rich to exist.I am so tired and so sad,and so alone,so frustrated,There is no justice because people are scared to use thier own power.They let the assholes take over.

And I have a very hard time existing in this world to be honest.

and had similar thoughts and now I feel far less alone with them than before. Your longing for what is good in this world and your disgust of all things evil is a gift to this world, to the universe. We need more of that, not less, and it's a terrible burden to carry in the face of such gross negligence all around us. Even if everyone else blindly marches to the cliff of extinction, our very existence is an opportunity to cultivate kindness, compassion, love, understanding, the fire of justice, and to burn away ignorance and greed.

Those are my better angels speaking. I can get pretty cynical too sometimes. But this thread and all its contributors have woken me up out of that delusion, even if for a brief spell.

like they can still control somethings

I mean morally, ethically and empathetically lazy and selfish. The poor, to these people, are like hungry people outside the window as they try to enjoy dinner. The selfish part of them wants those poor gone so they can enjoy the dinner--out of sight, out of mind. And the lazy part of them doesn't want to have to do anything constructive to get rid of them because, well, that takes work. If you say, "If a person s poor it's their own fault..." then you don't have to do anything--you absolve yourself morally and ethically from any obligation to help them--even to help them help themselves (i.e. provide jobs).

Stigmatize, ghettoize, and demonize. Stigmatize means you blame the victim so you need not take any responsibility or ever feel bad for not helping them. Ghettoize means out of sight, out of mind. Get the hungry away from the window--or more precisely, out of the stores where their food stamp cards remind others that they exist and hurt their enjoyment of their own good life. It also means no one can call you on your lies (i.e. "I'm friends with a poor person and know they work hard..." If poor people are all in the ghetto, you can say what you like about them and those out side the ghetto will believe it). This also allows one the fringe benefit of demonizing--meaning instant scapegoat, one that (like all good scapegoats) can't really fight back. So you can blame them not only for their own situation, but for other evils. Like "why is our government so in the red?" --uh, oh, can't let anyone know it's because of that useless war we started..."The poor! All those expensive programs to help the poor are to blame."

It's no surprise this ancient method is used time and again by the selfish and lazy so they can eat in their exclusive club without undesirables ruining their lunch. The real problem, however, is not these people. It's those that are not them, and not their victims. The ones who could end all this simply by siding with the victims and calling the selfish/lazy on their lies. But they don't. Like the town backing the footballs player rapists and blaming the girl who was raped, they'd rather swallow the lie then face the truth. The truth means they have to get involved, feel bad, take responsibility, and actually do something. Given a way out of all that, they too will selfishly, and lazily take it.

about the selfish assholes that make up the posse that cluster around the sociopaths and do the sociopaths dirtywork as they collect perks of being powerful and popular.

Because they'd rather swallow the lie and be lazy rather than risk being abused and scapegoated themselves by associating with the undesirables.

Politics is just like in school ..

There was a girl in a bully posse who always tried to instigate a fight, with me.She'd say insults,when her leader and posse were there to back her up. Often they'd get to the point my limit was crossed and one or more would get hurt.One time the teacher assigned just her and I to a table that was seperated somewhat from the other tables.. She told me my art was amazing,she actually said she liked me,she never knew I was so smart.. But as soon as she was re-assigned to the table with her sociopath bully leader and the posse she went back to being cruel to me,like that time with me never even happened.

She would start an incident and then when teachers moseyed over she blamed me.Again and again she did this.Later the vice principal figured out she was full of shit put us in a room to 'fight it out' and she was scared shitless of me.I grabbed her throat and told her that because she said she liked me,in art class that day 2 years ago I would not kill her,but I told her you know I could kill you right now.I could do it anytime..So I reccomend you leave me the fuck alone.And..finally she did. And there were no more incidents between she and I.

That is how vile people can be when they accept a leader and become a minion of a bully and are scared to be disloyal to the posse they think gives them social privleges.

the unpopular kid is bullied by the ones clinging to the lead bullies coat tails. If they actually had the guts to step out of the posse then they might find scapegoats are not always bad people,and if they had the guts to stand up against the posse and the abuser at the center of it,they might find freindship does not need cocercion to be real,but it takes compassion and understanding and sharing even of weakness and an honoring of the bonds of trust,and there is nowhere to evelate ones self lest they face rejection..

No, no! The world does not have to be like this!

The bullying I suffered as a kid "taught" me to be invisible. That was not a good thing. I have things that need to be said and people who will listen.

I don't have the resources to make things better for you (not money anyways...) but I am listening.

"The world does not have to be like this." Yes. You are absolutely correct.

The "strong" hate the "weak" because the system we live under rewards bullying and sociopathy, and punishes compassion and empathy. Sometimes I wonder if, at some level, the bullies and sociopaths recognize that they contribute nothing to society but destruction, greed, and , but they aren't willing to admit that, so they project that hatred of themselves onto the weaker people.

Maybe it's also a defense mechanism, too. Think of it this way: a lot of people are only a couple steps removed from joining the ranks of the "weak" (the poor, the voiceless, the downtrodden) themselves. They fear (correctly) that the system will have little to no use for them in the near future, other than as slave labor. However, it's more socially acceptable to hate, mock, and wrinkle their noses at the poorest among us than it is to turn your anger on the REAL culprits-the rich and powerful.

Thanks for this post. Solidarity, forever.

solidarity

I just realized this,solidarity with the vulnerable,the victims,the innocent,lovers, the wounded,the scapegoats, the trying to be free is what keeps me from killing myself.

Maybe later.

The reason? Because I felt the post was about me. It hurt. It scared me. It sickened me. All the things you are going through are things I am going through. And there is no help. I just spent three weeks in the corner of my couch, not answering the phone because the world terrifies me and there is no help.

People with who I have so much in common disdain me because I am poor and damaged, only adding further to the damage.

Poverty, PTSD and dissociation. The reason I don't kill myself. Two friends and two cats.

in a dysfunctional world only the dysfunctional can function normally.

i hope what i say does not sound patronising and i am no expert or anything, but from where i stand ptsd and disassociation these are symptoms, and symptoms of a sickness outside of you, and not coming from you, or belonging to you.
the people that "measure" you based on wealth or poverty are empty,
it is easier for me to say because for me it is a choice to have more time for myself,
and less stress, and less money than i could have if i wanted.

i value sunshine, a nice breeze, being out in nature, the smells and sensations, i value that much more highly than money.
walking/being outside is good, its not help, but it is good.

The rampant cruelty and willingness to torment and destroy the weak is a trait of one of our nearest simian relatives, but not the other. We also have a nurturing and peaceful solidarity as a potential within us, to be more like our bonobo cousins. But the kind of group ganging up and bullying that humans and chimps enjoy-- that is something subhuman in us that can destroy everything we build with our cooperative side.

Bullying is not about being strong and taking it out on weak ones. Bullying is usually about insecurity and self loathing.

Have you ever looked deeply at the problem usually it is an excess of self esteem that makes bullies
http://thenarcissistinyourlife.com/tag/narcissists-are-bullies/
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cutting-edge-leadership/201010/unholy-trio-bullying-cronyism-and-narcissism

Although I admit I was also misstating the problem. Clearly neither one of us are psychologists.

People with healthy self esteem have no need to bully others.

What you call an excess of self esteem (narcisissm) is actually more like a superiority-inferiority complex. Those are deeply insecure people who need to feel better than everyone else. So actually bullies are not strong at all. Bullies are insecure, and are psychological weaklings.

I think you know this.

You once told me that (I'm paraphrasing), 'for those of us that can see the wrongs, the world treats us badly as a kind of immune response'.

Because it fears us. Because THEY fear us. They hate because they are afraid.

accept the bad within themselves.