Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 06:58 PM Jun 2013

The best thing about the Snowden Affair?

For me it's summed up in this paragragh: (ignore the cocky description)

<snip>

The cocky defiance by so-called "non-state actors" - Snowden himself and the anti-secrecy group, WikiLeaks, completes the picture of a world less willing than ever to bend to U.S. prescriptions of right and wrong.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/23/us-usa-security-obama-analysis-idUSBRE95M0HL20130623

I want a world less willing to bend to the U.S. We've been a horrible bully on the world stage for too long. Empires never see their own evils- and we commit plenty of them.

I want a less dominant U.S. I want a less arrogant U.S. I want a country that doesn't assume it can send drones to sovereign nations to bomb people.

I'm sorry that President Obama is the one getting caught in this , but it's happening. He wanted the job and this country needs some change that may not be on his agenda now.

And yes, what's happening as a result of Snowden is a very big deal.

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The best thing about the Snowden Affair? (Original Post) cali Jun 2013 OP
the international consequences for the US dwarf the domestic consequences for Obama and his party carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #1
The two are not mutually exclusive KamaAina Jun 2013 #16
Bush and Republicans can never be rehabilitated in world opinion, let's hope the US is the same carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #20
If Democrats governed as Democrats Coccydynia Jun 2013 #22
kick cali Jun 2013 #2
Obama had 4 years to dial this back. bahrbearian Jun 2013 #3
Agreed - One Can Only Guess That He Lost Hope In His Change - Or The Establishment Prevailed cantbeserious Jun 2013 #9
All aboard the karma train..... dixiegrrrrl Jun 2013 #4
I've had enough of Obama talking falsely. L0oniX Jun 2013 #5
What a fraud this guy has proven to be. Daniel537 Jun 2013 #6
Sure, and now he's giving a big speech on his plan cali Jun 2013 #7
"Cynically, the first thing I wonder, is how soon after that will he announce approval..." scarletwoman Jun 2013 #10
Experience warns us pscot Jun 2013 #13
Indeed. Sadly. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #14
I Would Not Put It Past This Administration cantbeserious Jun 2013 #11
He doesn't hold a ALEC membership card does he? L0oniX Jun 2013 #12
I doubt it KamaAina Jun 2013 #17
He will claim fracking and the Keystone pipeline are the BEST ways to combat climate change. Divernan Jun 2013 #21
k&r thanks for posting. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #8
I agree we do bully, but I also believe we have done many great things as well. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #15
OK. What great things have we done over the last 20 years or so? cali Jun 2013 #23
"I'm sorry that President Obama is the one getting caught in this" Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #18
No kidding. Had enough of some Obama haters sitting on their rumps whining like tea baggers. lumpy Jun 2013 #19

carolinayellowdog

(3,247 posts)
1. the international consequences for the US dwarf the domestic consequences for Obama and his party
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:09 PM
Jun 2013

it's not even much worth discussing who does and doesn't approve/support Snowden here, if the rest of the world sees him as David vs. the NSA Goliath

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
16. The two are not mutually exclusive
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:29 PM
Jun 2013

What if the repukes take the Senate in '14? Then the (Lily) White House in '16? What would be the international consequences of that??

carolinayellowdog

(3,247 posts)
20. Bush and Republicans can never be rehabilitated in world opinion, let's hope the US is the same
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:58 PM
Jun 2013

the worst possible outcome would be for the Republicans to gain from this now when they started the slide into total surveillance

 

Coccydynia

(198 posts)
22. If Democrats governed as Democrats
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:18 PM
Jun 2013

in the present, they wouldn't have to worry about how the Republicans might govern in the future. Republicans would rarely govern in the future, and when they did, their governing would be short lived.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
5. I've had enough of Obama talking falsely.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:37 PM
Jun 2013

“This Administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand. I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom.
That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are.”

Candidate Obama, August 2007.

I knew better after hearing Obama with his absurd "clean coal" talk but voted for him twice ...only because the alternative was worse.

 

Daniel537

(1,560 posts)
6. What a fraud this guy has proven to be.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:41 PM
Jun 2013

I knew he wasn't going to be some great civil libertarian, but one would have at least thought he wouldn't have expanded the criminal police state Bush put in place. So much for that.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
7. Sure, and now he's giving a big speech on his plan
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:41 PM
Jun 2013

to combat climate change, on Tuesday. Cynically, the first thing I wonder, is how soon after that will he announce approval for the xl pipeline.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
10. "Cynically, the first thing I wonder, is how soon after that will he announce approval..."
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:06 PM
Jun 2013
"for the xl pipeline."

Me, too.

If we're both wrong, I'll be happy, of course. The problem is, there's simply nothing on which to base any faith that we will be wrong.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
12. He doesn't hold a ALEC membership card does he?
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:19 PM
Jun 2013

Just watched Bill Moyers doing a piece on ALEC ...not a good thing for the people.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
17. I doubt it
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:32 PM
Jun 2013

since he is not a state legislator. ALEC shoves BS like right-to-work (for peanuts) and transvaginal ultrasound ("penalty dick" FTW!!!) through state legislatures, down the throats of people in states where repukes get a toehold.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
21. He will claim fracking and the Keystone pipeline are the BEST ways to combat climate change.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 10:49 PM
Jun 2013

And he'll continue to sing the praises of "clean coal". I can just hear the rhetoric: "Yes, my friends, our great country is blessed with great natural resources which we must privatize, exploit and market to the rest of the world." "Scientists agree that large areas of previously viable farmland will become desert. Thank GOD for Monsanto and genetically engineered crops which will produce more crops per acre on the reduced farmlands available."

Prepare for a rationalization of Keystone Pipeline approval and justification for giving frackers free rein. Oh and let us not forget lots and lots of new nuclear energy plants. They'll be absolutely safe you know! As if Fukushima never happened. Obama's first big backer, Exelon, an Illinois company that is the largest nuclear plant operator in the US. Obama's been referred to as the nuclear industry’s Golden Child. No president in the last three decades has put more taxpayer dollars behind atom power than Barack Obama.

I predict lots of fluffy icing, bells, whistles distractions, ponies and rainbows slathered sky high over Big Oil/Big Energy's profiteering agenda. Fast track the profits and the devil take the hindmost!

Doubtless there will be token commissions appointed to carefully study future development of solar energy and wind farms. (cough! stall and delay! cough!) There ARE other, albeit far less profitable, sources of energy than oil/gas/nuclear power, but the US has lagged behind other advanced countries in developing them. When he tells us we have no choice but to continue to rely on coal, oil, gas & nuclear power for now, I concede that's the case, since he's squandered 5 years before getting around to the environment. Just look at what Germany's done in the last 5 years re wind farms and solar panels.

The very least he should do is to tighten up regulation and oversight of all stages of oil,coal & natural gas extraction/refining & transporting, with SUBSTANTIAL fines for violation. And announce that he has gotten some state to agree to be a repository for the spent nuclear fuel rods. And remember, even if we get tight regulations on the books, the agencies responsible for same must be fully staffed and fully funded, and given active oversight and support from the Oval Office to monitor energy industries and quickly prosecute offenders.

This is the president who basically privatized the Gulf oil spill monitoring and clean-up operation to BP. As one example, will we little people be lectured about doing without air-conditioning, or will Obama push for federal funding/tax credits for ceiling fans? Big bucks will doubtless be announced as being thrown at the problem - will the projects be privatized or government-run? What about a nationwide program of emergency shelters to be ready for heat waves/power failures/floods/blizzards? Those should be local government functions - give them the money and let them hire local workers, as opposed to huge contracts for the likes of Halliburton.

And where will the huge amounts of funding needed to effectively prepare for climate change come from? Will he announce he needs to divert billions from the MIC and fighting multiple wars, or will he tell us to suck it up and accept cuts to social security and medicare/medicaid? Seriously, where will the money come from? We know his administration has been sharing information with and soliciting input from some 600 corporations re Obama's Trans Pacific Free Trade Partnership, while refusing to brief Congress on it. How many of the Big Money corporate interests already know what Obama's planning to announce in his environment speech?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/03/12/obama-and-nuclear-power/
Resurrecting a Failed Industry
Obama and Nuclear Power
by JOSHUA FRANK And JEFFREY ST. CLAIR

At first it seemed Obama was intent on making a decent change in the reporting protocol, even demonizing Exelon’s inaction in the press. But Obama could only go so far, as Exelon executives, including Chairman John W. Rowe, who serves as a key lobbyist for the nuclear energy lobby, have long been campaign backers, raising hundreds of thousands of dollars dating back to Obama’s days in the Illinois State Legislature.

Despite his initial push to advance the legislation, Obama’s office eventually rewrote the bill, producing a version that was palatable to Exelon and the rest of the nuclear industry. "Senator Obama’s staff was sending us copies of the bill to review, we could see it weakening with each successive draft," said Joe Cosgrove, a park district director in Will County, Illinois, where the nuclear leaks had polluted local ground water. "The teeth were just taken out of it."

Inevitably, the bill died a slow death in the Senate. And like an experienced political operative, Obama came out of the battle as a martyr for both sides of the cause. His constituents back in Illinois thought he fought a good fight, while industry insiders knew the Obama machine was worth investing in.

Obama’s campaign wallet during the 2008 election, while rich with millions from small online donations, was also bulging in contributions given by employees of Exelon, his firth largest bloc of campaign contributors. Two of Obama’s largest campaign fundraisers include Frank M. Clark and John W. Rogers Jr., both top Exelon officials. Clark even served as a “bundler” for Obama for America, helping raise millions of dollars for the campaign. Even Obama’s chief strategist in 2008, David Axelrod, has done consulting work for the company.
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
23. OK. What great things have we done over the last 20 years or so?
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 06:09 AM
Jun 2013

specifically, what have we done that's great re foreign policy?

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The best thing about the ...