I don't believe him

??

yes I think it's possible my words are being monitored. yes, I have a problem with it.

if they ever catch up with him on my worst enemy.

International law dictates.

It doesn't matter if I like him, believe him, hate him, etc. I am not a hypocrite.



PS it would help everyone to remember that only thing that matters is what Edward Snowden believes he is doing and why. He doesn't even have to be right. If he believes that the information he is releasing shows wrongdoing by the organisation he worked for than he is a whistleblower.

If he'd stopped at letting the information out about the NSA spying on American's, I'd be rooting for him as a courageous whistleblower. But when he started giving asset information to foreign governments, putting their lives at risk, I went from courageous whistleblower to treasonous bastard.

You can't condemn Cheney and the Bush admin for what they did to Valerie Plame and exult this dude for what he's doing. His actions are putting many more lives at risk than Cheney did with Plame. Whether you agree with international spying or not, Snowden made the decision to put American lives at risk.

So pretty much all your concerns are invalid in my case.

The concept is ridiculous.

I kind of like the drama, of course. Where's Eddie? That's a lot more fun than his being caught.

a great deal is the level of hatred here for his leak, a strand of opinion which doesn't seem to be able to weight the net good that Snowden has done by exposing universal surveillance from the possible harm of revealing state secrets.

A lot of people seem to still be fighting the Cold War inside their heads, and that is not good, particularly as it's on a supposedly progressive website. Some of the comments read like the board on the Free Republic.

There's an excellent article at The Atlantic that sums up the good that has come of these revelations along with the continuing NSA lies: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/2-senators-say-the-nsa-is-still-feeding-us-false-information/277187/

"a lot of people are still fighting the cold war inside their heads"...

Yep. Freep mentality, ie. congealed in time. Doesn't work that way any more.

n/t

But, many went back into the dream state in 1980, and still haven't reemerged from hybernation.

The galloping horde after Snowden here sounds exactly like those Freepers who hated Bill Clinton, and those who defended Bush-Cheney, and those who now hate Obama. You do know that Bill Clinton hung used condoms on the WH Christmas tree, molested his daughter in the WH, and so on? (Snowden's gaffes are as widely disseminated now, thanks to the framers and the propaganda catapaulters).

The ugliest facet of all is the characterization of good Democrats here as supporters of Glenn Beck and Rand Paul.

Nonsense. Ugly framing by hysterical people who should be ashamed.

But, that takes a functioning conscience.

Let him disclose whatever he has to whoever will listen. This is not about nationalism, this is about human rights violations, worldwide.

Absolutely! And guess which country has the worst record in this regard?
That's right, we do, with our war mongering, attacking countries that have nothing to do with the reasons why we are attacking them. Torture in secret and not secret prisons. Supplying arms and ammunition to both sides in the conflicts we foster. Drone ambushes on innocent victims, then ambushing the rescuers, too. And the list goes on and on and on...

control mechanisms of the inner goverment!

don't take my name in vain.

That's a separate issue from that posed by the OP.

They will max out the charges and engage in a prosecutorial bloodfest.

The security state has to be torn down. It can only be torn down with the help of people like snowden who step and reveal the details of its operations against the institutions of our democratic republic.

Who does the security state fear most? Why that would be us, the people of this republic, and their fear is that we will wake the fuck up and dismantle the monster.

some necessary state secrets -- launch codes, identities of U.S. agents abroad, etc. -- and the really hard task is making the right moral judgements between maintaining those necessary secrets and simply doing everything in the dark. The worst thing is secret government with secret laws, secret courts, and secret police that create fear about secret unknown threats - that's where we are, and it has to change.

then the very term 'justice' is a cruel mockery and insult to anyone with even a whisp of intelligence (npi).

Injustice stares us in the face each day we awake, contemptuously smiles at us from behind its cloak of 1% privilege and dares us to do anything about it or risk the crushing weight of Leviathan land upon our own heads.

But I still keep my support of him to myself, except for a very few places like here.

I have no doubt that I'm being watched, although in a pool of a few hundred million others, I'm likely not being watched that closely. But it has changed how I communicate, I refrain from certain words in electronic communications. Several weeks ago i deleted my Facebook and LinkedIn accounts.

The fact is we now live in a world where you do have to "watch what you say".

I hope he gets away.

RUN SNOWDEN RUN!

I signed a White House petition for a pardon.

My 9 year old saw him on the news and asked me what was going on -what he did...

I told him that if he sees someone at school do something bad to another person, it's his responsibility to tell -EVEN IF it gets him in trouble...

It's like that I said. The US govt. did something bad and Snowden told people -like he should.

So then if he did something good, why do they want to arrest him, he asked...

Because they're mad at him, I said. They're mad that people found out they were doing bad things.

He got it. Why? Because that's the truth beneath all of this.

So I am very openly hoping that he avoids the clutches of the US govt.

Openly.

what's the point? The damage is done.

Do you have a secret connection to the Chinese and Russian security services? Maybe you are the one who ought to be checked out. How do you know what you are claiminig?

this would be one of the greatest intelligence windfalls in decades - don't you think a deeper understanding of the NSA works is high on their list of things to do?

Snowden is dependent on Putin for his future - why would Putin, the ex-KGB officer, throw away such an opportunity?

Let me ask the question another way - if this guy was a Russian, do you think the CIA would not extract every piece of information from him?

it's all speculation on your part with no proof to back it up.

to such a windfall.

Why is it such a big deal? This entire situation is lacking in hard facts and is fertile ground for speculation - as evidenced by nearly every Snowden thread.

LOL...


but enough with the jokes-


NSA agent #7087, Please contact me when you get a chance-

One of the 34,000 optical splitters at 60 Hudson has a cracked prism. We have the replacement but you still need to send a PO for $83K to finance. (for others reading this yes we mark them up 5400%, government money free!)

and I hope there are more whistleblowers after him. Until the Surveillance State apparatus is repealed, actions like Snowden's will be necessary to stop the damn thing.

No, I'm not paranoid about saying so. There was a time when I would've been though, I understand that feeling. I am one who has dealt with harassment from that angle, every so often, ever since the Nixon years, and I long ago stopped buying its "bogeyman" image -- I know from my own direct experience that 'they' are cowards, and not very bright. At this point, I think I have simply outlived the pod that was on my back. But if they care to play again, I know how it moves, I know what it looks like, and I know what to do about it. I no longer have anything to lose, except myself, and I'm an 'old lady' now. I'm left from it with nothing but a story, which is too complicated to tell, even if I wanted to -- which I don't. Even if I did want to, I know that no one would believe it anyway (only those who have dealt with it too, and they don't need telling). So there has been an impasse for a long while now, and I expect it to stay that way. But I couldn't care less if it doesn't. It has already wrecked my life, and there is nothing more that it can do, nothing that I care about.

And I'll tell you something funny -- I'm one of the most patriotic people on this board. It isn't the government that did this to me, but a criminal element within it. And I'd like nothing better than to see that rooted out. Maybe not in my lifetime, but I believe someday it will be.

loving it

Put me in the NO column.


Tikki

He's become a joke, and with all the focus on him...his actual cause is lost

Last edited Tue Jun 25, 2013, 12:08 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm enjoying their well earned discomfort and attempts to dig the very deep hole they've put themselves into.

...Emmanual Goldstein Edward Snowden. Let's get back to work for the homeland, shall we?

thought I might need to have a government security clearance due to a career choice, I would be saying nothing.

I really do not have any position on Snowden. I find the discussions on the domestic spying to be more interesting, generally, than those about the individuals involved. But, of course, I do recognize that there is some overlap, by the very nature of the issues involved.

I can say that I find that some of the DUers who I disagree with most strongly on many issues of significance, are among those attacking Snowden most consistently on this forum. And to be fair, a few DUers I have respect for also are attacking him. However, I keep in mind Malcolm X's saying that he knew he was doing the right thing when his enemies squealed the loudest.

Recommended.

I'm pretty much out in theopen about it.

Our justice department is a farce and a tool of the 1%. For whatever faults this man may possess, no one died as a result of his actions. Bush and Cheney have gotten thousands killed in a war based on lies and continue to live as free men, with no fear of ever going to prison for their crimes against humanity.

This is "justice"? What a fucking joke.

No secret about it. I don't care who in the government or private sector knows it. (I publish a legal blog under my own name with these views).

A Government that takes our rights away in public can't be trusted to protect them in private. When my country gets on the right side of international law, then we can talk about giving people fair trials. Until then, heck no.

Run Snowden Run!

I don't hear that this is going very well though. But he's still in Russia at the airport I hear. Maybe waiting on Ecuador's answer to amnesty.

i'm pretty open about it.

...about anything concerning criticism of the government, just as I did when Bush** was in the WH. But I do anyway.

I resent the chilling effect.

He'll get asylum somewhere.

The issue here is spying. Let's focus on that.

he is doing a damn fine job. And still they hound the great white whale...

and hang out in airports like the guy in "The Terminal." Great theatre.

with no national loyalty.

If corporations are people, its time they were required to have passports.

don't have to hear about him and his escapades for effing ever. I've already overdosed, and I don't even know if I support or oppose what he did.

We were counting on Obama to dismantle all the noxious stuff enacted by the previous administration - if he won't, that means Snowden needed to step up to the plate.

No secret about it. I hope the authoritarian assholes can't touch him, EVER.

They are the real criminals who should be locked up, PERMANENTLY.

I'm not afraid of my government, I'm utterly disgusted with it. And as a free human being I will speak out, whether they're monitoring me or not.