please vote to that effect.

It's not so simple as hero or.... This is not about a person or personalities it is about defining ourselves as a society. What sort of world do we really want to live in? Do we trust the government to do the right thing? In my view people ought to look at the history of the last several decades and what the trends are and make their own judgments. In theory, I would support the right of government to insure what it believes are the needs, security of otherwise, of the people. In practice I do not believe the current system exists for any other reason than to enrich the already rich and to make sure the status-quo never changes. I don't believe the government has an interest in my needs or my welfare--it promotes policies and systems that are bad for me personally and appear to harm most people. This, in the end, is what this issue is about.

The "secrets" the government holds are so great and so immense that we know very little about what actually goes on unless we do our own research. The mainstream media is utterly useless in my view in getting at the truth for a variety of reasons that go back, to Walter Lippman's notions on how public opinion ought to be shaped--I leave it to the reader to look into that.

I don't know enough about him to be 'Pro Snowden'. I am Pro Transparency and support the leak.

It seems to me that there is a cadre of DU'er's making a disproportionate amount of noise about how bad Snowden or his actions were; but I suspect the majority of DU'er's are in fact glad for the leak -- that's what I'm trying to establish.

So if you're pro-leak, please vote to that effect.

hi VV!

and a lot of what we are hearing lately is speculation.

I was aware of what was likely happening in the post 9/11 US spy biz, and I'm smart enough to know that once a govt gets those tools, they aren't too likely to lessen their usage just because a new administration comes to town.

I feel there are a LOT of differing agendas at work here, and I am not jumping to any conclusions just yet.

I would still like more actual facts rather than rumor and innuendo.

Do those that support Snowden have to accept responsibility if, as a result, there is a successful terrorist attack on the US?

I am not a star member so I cannot start a poll so I will ask a star member to do this and put me down as Yes.

Or is that verboten because he's got our best interests at heart?

will all be responsible for the next terrorist attack by that logic-- which will undoubtedly be used by someone here in the aftermath of any such attack

the loyal subjects of the king's government, terrorist. If an innocent bystander gets killed during a protest against a war, a victim of terrorism.

Even he, surprisingly, didn't dare to try to criminalize journalists, but he did have a meeting with the NYT journalist who published the leaks. In what has become an infamous statement to the journalist he said:

If the current Admin can't commit to transparency, then we need whistleblowers to show us what's going on.

The fact that we even have to demand this from a (D) President is ridiculous.

with the caveat that I don't know what he showed the Chinese in secret.

either is lying, it would appear that he has used the media, not any government, to inform the public.

Snowden lied his way into the job, and the Chinese government is not known for its honesty.

I believe nothing either says, just like I don't believe what the head of the NSA says.

I have no real reason to trust neither Snowden nor the Chinese.

We will see what happens.

and then reveal it to the world'? Well, now I feel better about trusting those charged with protecting our rights!

Which is why I like the 4th Amendment. It sort of covers these things, and is pretty clear about Government intrusion into the lives of American citizens. Just trust these morons, right? Outsource our Security System to third world children. But the money is great, these 'security' contractors are multi billion dollar (tax dollar btw) operations whose only purpose is to make a profit. Hey, they accomplished their goals. Think about how much more it would have cost them to hire an American to do that job.

Therefore he did not have access to the inner workings of the NSA. If you want to believe him, that's fine. But he has shown no evidence that he knows what a Systems Analyst has access to.

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[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
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con if dubya does it.

this leak there would be no public debate about the relentlessly and ever increasing and ever more Orwellian surveillance industrial complex.

Unless they have a warrant and a cause and can produce it publicly for review.

They get to keep secrets, why don't we?

A vast majority has supported this leak from day one, I am happy to see it is growing.

One cannot undo what is done.

And about Snowden? I think there's some squirrelly things about his history where I would not have given him access, but that's a moot point, too.

No matter. I have only recently decided -- during the last day or so -- that I do not want him captured. This is mainly because of the fact that he would likely not be treated very well and we'd likely never know the story.

I now want to know the story, and the only way that's going to happen is if he escapes prosecution, even if only temporarily. (What eventually happens is up to the Fates and the vagaries of a world in more than a bit of political chaos.)

However, knowing what I know about the guy (only through media reports) he may be smart, but I do not think he has the experience to pull this off. If he does not have people with such experience helping him, he's going to get caught, and it will likely be soon.

In his favor is that big, influential countries seem to want to help him a little bit while retaining plausible deniability. Hong Kong protects him, but is apparently glad to be rid of him. He ends up at a Moscow airport and Putin protects his rights (no extradition at any rate) but signals he'd like to see the back side of him as well.

The only question, and this is a big one, which country will he go to next that will protect him, but which won't let him stay?

Mr. Snowden is in a bit of a pickle right now, I'd imagine.

I cannot entirely condone what he's done, but that ship has long since sailed. At the same time I do not want him captured such that it all gets smothered under the dreaded Cone of Silence. I guess that I wish him the best.

This is my first post overtly supporting him here on DU. But I am mightily conflicted about this and can make arguments to myself multiple ways.

on edit: would such sentiments be appropriate for an OP here? Or would it only start more flame wars? I would hate the latter. We've had far too many of those already.