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Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:03 PM Jun 2013

Greenwald does not have a timeline problem. The NY Times as the story broke:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/us/how-edward-j-snowden-orchestrated-a-blockbuster-story.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

Cryptic Overtures and a Clandestine Meeting Gave Birth to a Blockbuster Story
By CHARLIE SAVAGE and MARK MAZZETTI
Published: June 10, 2013

1) January 2013: Snowden reaches out to documentary filmaker Laura Poitras
2) February 2013: Greenwald receives "an enigmatic e-mail identifying himself as a reader and saying he wanted to communicate about a potential story using encryption."
3) February 2013: Greenwald receives encryption software but doesn't complete the installation process.
4) March 2013: Poitras reaches out to Greenwald to discuss the issue. "At that point, neither knew his name yet."
5) Late April or early May: Greenwald and Snowden begin communicating via encrypted email.
6) Last week of May: Greenwald flies to New York to meet with Guardian editors and then he and Poitras fly to Hong Kong.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/06/25/msnbcs-reid-raises-questions-about-guardians-glenn-greenwald/
It was only in May — and not before — that Snowden told [Greenwald] who he was, who he worked for (at that point he identified himself as affiliated with the NSA) and what sort of documents he had to share, Greenwald says. It wasn’t until June — when Greenwald visited Snowden in Hong Kong — that Snowden told him he worked specifically for Booz Allen, Greenwald adds.
“We had early conversations about setting up encryption, so we worked early on to set that up,” Greenwald says. “We didn’t work on any documents. I didn’t even know Edward Snowden’s name or where he worked until after he was in Hong Kong with the documents. Anyone who is claiming that somehow I worked with him to get those documents or helped him is just lying.”


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Greenwald does not have a timeline problem. The NY Times as the story broke: (Original Post) Luminous Animal Jun 2013 OP
I never thought Greenwald would lie about the timeline like that senseandsensibility Jun 2013 #1
oh senseandsensibility you are so right!!! tartan2 Jun 2013 #24
Kick. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #2
are you trying to confuse people with facts?? grasswire Jun 2013 #3
It's a cryin' shame that DUers are now capable of being confused with facts. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #4
We've Been Dumbed-Down Considerably Over The Years... WillyT Jun 2013 #8
That's the problem with a big tent OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #23
sometimes vermin crawls under the tent flaps frylock Jun 2013 #36
I guess the attack posse will have to pivot back to the "boxes in the garage" Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #5
I still think there's milage in the "Poledancing girlfriend" angle - she needs more investigation. leveymg Jun 2013 #51
We've already known for two weeks about Greenwald's "timeline problem" Jarla Jun 2013 #6
People are insinuating that he knew who Snowden was IN FEBRUARY (false) Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #7
Yes I know. Jarla Jun 2013 #9
Because the NY Times article and the facts would have been too fresh in people's memories. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #13
It took the posse two weeks to figure out the law of conspiracy as it relates to whistleblowers. leveymg Jun 2013 #52
Big picture? What big picture? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #56
Dry, very dry. ;-) leveymg Jun 2013 #62
It's suddenly an issue because it may implicate Greenwald jeff47 Jun 2013 #20
But is Snowden's admission really such a surprise? Jarla Jun 2013 #22
The surprise is that it destroys the "whistleblower" claims. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2013 #44
This doesn't ProSense Jun 2013 #10
Yes. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #12
And he was communicating with him without knowing his name or where he worked. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #14
That's actually an interesting legal question. Robb Jun 2013 #48
How could he have possibly encouraged him to do an illegal act when it appears the illegal act had Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #54
But he deleted that Tweet that's still there. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #11
I saw some made up shit the other day about a deleted tweet. The Link Jun 2013 #15
There is so much made up shit that people like me who have a full-time job, can't keep up Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #42
So Greenwald flew all the way out to China Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #16
Bart Gellman of the Washington Post never even met the guy and wrote a PRISM article. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #17
Yeah, he did. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #18
it's amazing the lengths that a JOURNALIST will go to secure a story frylock Jun 2013 #28
It helps to have the paper behind him nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #58
Kick. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #19
Only people who can't understand plain English. Or pretend not to. /t Catherina Jun 2013 #21
The folks you are correcting are not confused on the facts, they are liars cthulu2016 Jun 2013 #25
No, the confusion are the rubes who think Greenwald just randomly installs encryption systems KittyWampus Jun 2013 #27
do you even KNOW what PGP is? frylock Jun 2013 #29
LOL! KittyWampus Jun 2013 #32
i'll take that as a "no, i don't know fuckall about encryption" frylock Jun 2013 #37
Unbelievably odd interpretation of what investigative journalists do. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #35
in a garage? really?!! frylock Jun 2013 #38
Did the garage have boxes in it? DesMoinesDem Jun 2013 #59
The real question is why a supposed "investigative reporter" didn't already have PGP installed? baldguy Jun 2013 #47
and that is a valid question frylock Jun 2013 #49
I honestly think that Greenwald never expected to be a go-to reporter for classified documents... Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #55
Woodward and Bernstein met a stranger in a garage. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #34
why they just type out words spoon-fed to them by the establishment.. frylock Jun 2013 #43
they don't seem very bright or tech savvy imho frylock Jun 2013 #30
and THEY (the others) don't seem to be very tethered to the reality based community. KittyWampus Jun 2013 #31
one person's reality is another person's fanatasy.. frylock Jun 2013 #41
Yes, he does. He was communicating with the traitor in February. Whether he knew the name or not KittyWampus Jun 2013 #26
He should have had encryption software all along and investigative journalists communicate with Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #33
Thanks for pointing that out. ucrdem Jun 2013 #46
i'm not in your party, i just vote a straight dem ticket.. frylock Jun 2013 #50
Recommend... Thanks for doing the NYT Article in numbered points! KoKo Jun 2013 #39
You are welcome, Koko. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #40
Greenwald doesn't have a timeline problem, he has a serious legal problem ucrdem Jun 2013 #45
As usual, Hissyspit Jun 2013 #53
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #57
you really think that? Whisp Jun 2013 #60
i will say #3 certainly gives me some affinity w/greenwald arely staircase Jun 2013 #61
Me too! Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #63
it is funny how little bits of real human experience come through in these things arely staircase Jun 2013 #65
Aw! Nice post! I'd bet we'd get along well in real life, too. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #66
Every time that other OP rises to the top. I'm kicking this. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #64

senseandsensibility

(17,146 posts)
1. I never thought Greenwald would lie about the timeline like that
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:05 PM
Jun 2013

He knows that all of his words will be examined and that the corporate media is just waiting to pounce on any inconsistency. Say what you will about him, but he is not stupid.

tartan2

(314 posts)
24. oh senseandsensibility you are so right!!!
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 03:27 PM
Jun 2013

Glenn Greenwald is a remarkable smart human being and he is very aware of just what a cluster fuck our corporate media is!!!!!

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
3. are you trying to confuse people with facts??
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:08 PM
Jun 2013

It's clear that once a narrative is created by the low-evidence crowd, any facts are useless.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
4. It's a cryin' shame that DUers are now capable of being confused with facts.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:10 PM
Jun 2013

Why, I remember when we used to brag that we were the smartest discussion board on the internet.

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
5. I guess the attack posse will have to pivot back to the "boxes in the garage"
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:16 PM
Jun 2013

and "high school dropout" arguments.

Thanks for posting!

cheers!

Jarla

(156 posts)
6. We've already known for two weeks about Greenwald's "timeline problem"
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:18 PM
Jun 2013

We've known since June 10th or 11th that Snowden first contacted Greenwald before he started working at BAH.

June 10th Tweet from Greenwald:

The reality is that Laura Poitras and I have been working with him since February, long before anyone spoke to Bart Gellman


June 11th Press Release from BAH:

Booz Allen can confirm that Edward Snowden, 29, was an employee of our firm for less than 3 months


So why is this suddenly a major issue?

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
7. People are insinuating that he knew who Snowden was IN FEBRUARY (false)
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:23 PM
Jun 2013

encouraged him to take the job at Booz Allen (false), and encouraged him to commit a crime (false).

Snowden already had the documents before Greenwald knew his name or knew where he worked.

In late April or early May, he and Mr. Snowden began to talk over an encrypted chat program.

About a week later, he said, Mr. Snowden sent a sample of about 20 documents
...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/us/how-edward-j-snowden-orchestrated-a-blockbuster-story.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&



Jarla

(156 posts)
9. Yes I know.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:27 PM
Jun 2013

I'm just wondering why people are only asking questions about this now and not two weeks ago?

If this is truly such a big deal, then why did they wait two weeks to raise the issue?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
52. It took the posse two weeks to figure out the law of conspiracy as it relates to whistleblowers.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 05:47 PM
Jun 2013

Those who've been most avidly pursuing Snowden aren't the sharpest tacks around here. They still don't grasp the details. The big picture is totally lost on them.



 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
56. Big picture? What big picture?
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 07:02 PM
Jun 2013

He gave money to Ron Paul, and I covered a Ron Paul rally


That is all that matters.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
20. It's suddenly an issue because it may implicate Greenwald
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:58 PM
Jun 2013

It's legal for a journalist to receive and publish leaked information. It is not legal for a journalist to solicit a leak.

Snowden just admitted to getting the BAH job in order to leak information. He was in contact with Greenwald before he got the job.

If Greenwald encouraged or otherwise advocated for Snowden to get the job so that he can leak, then that could be a crime on Greenwald's part.

But to do more than speculate, we'd need more information than one quote from one newspaper from Snowden.

Jarla

(156 posts)
22. But is Snowden's admission really such a surprise?
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:06 PM
Jun 2013

Given the chronology of events, I'd been assuming all along that Snowden took the BAH job in order to leak information.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
10. This doesn't
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:27 PM
Jun 2013
1) January 2013: Snowden reaches out to documentary filmaker Laura Poitras
2) February 2013: Greenwald receives "an enigmatic e-mail identifying himself as a reader and saying he wanted to communicate about a potential story using encryption."
3) February 2013: Greenwald receives encryption software but doesn't complete the installation process.
4) March 2013: Poitras reaches out to Greenwald to discuss the issue. "At that point, neither knew his name yet."
5) Late April or early May: Greenwald and Snowden begin communicating via encrypted email.
6) Last week of May: Greenwald flies to New York to meet with Guardian editors and then he and Poitras fly to Hong Kong.

...change the fact that Greenwald was in contact with him before he took the job.

No matter how dismissive anyone is of that fact, it's going to be scrutinized, especially in light of Snowden's admission that he took the job with the intent of leaking the information.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
14. And he was communicating with him without knowing his name or where he worked.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:40 PM
Jun 2013

As was Bart Gellman of the Washington Post.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
48. That's actually an interesting legal question.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:52 PM
Jun 2013

It's illegal for a reporter (or anyone else) to encourage someone to commit an illegal act; does it matter whether the reporter knows exactly who the person is?

I have no idea. There is certainly a line somewhere.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
54. How could he have possibly encouraged him to do an illegal act when it appears the illegal act had
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 06:50 PM
Jun 2013

already happened?

If you notice, so far, the documents revealed are date stamped with the date prior to Greenwald and Snowden communicating in late April or early May.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
42. There is so much made up shit that people like me who have a full-time job, can't keep up
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:31 PM
Jun 2013

debunking the smears.

 

Life Long Dem

(8,582 posts)
16. So Greenwald flew all the way out to China
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:41 PM
Jun 2013

Before he even knew or met Snowden. I didn’t even know Edward Snowden’s name or where he worked until after he was in Hong Kong with the documents.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
17. Bart Gellman of the Washington Post never even met the guy and wrote a PRISM article.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:45 PM
Jun 2013

And, he didn't know his name until Snowden outed himself:

Separately, in mid-May Mr. Snowden reached out to Mr. Gellman. Mr. Greenwald said Ms. Poitras had decided “it would be good to have The Washington Post invested in the leak, so it wasn’t just us — to tie in official Washington in the leak” — and picked Mr. Gellman. Mr. Snowden sent Mr. Gellman the same sample set of documents. In an account of his involvement, Mr. Gellman said Mr. Snowden had called himself “Verax” — truth teller in Latin — a pseudonym used by both a 17th- and a 19th-century British writer, one of whom died in the Tower of London, and the other much honored.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/us/how-edward-j-snowden-orchestrated-a-blockbuster-story.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
27. No, the confusion are the rubes who think Greenwald just randomly installs encryption systems
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 03:50 PM
Jun 2013

whenever some stranger asks him to for no reason.

"Hey I got a story for you, here's an encryption system for your computer".

LOL!

frylock

(34,825 posts)
29. do you even KNOW what PGP is?
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 03:58 PM
Jun 2013

some stranger asked an INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER to install encrypton software in order to exchange email regarding a STORY. what's so sinister about that?

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
35. Unbelievably odd interpretation of what investigative journalists do.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:14 PM
Jun 2013

Woodward and Bernstein met a stranger in a garage. Oooooooh!

frylock

(34,825 posts)
38. in a garage? really?!!
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:24 PM
Jun 2013

that's where people keep cars. you don't exchange information clandestinely in a garage! going to have to rethink the whole Watergate scandal now.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
47. The real question is why a supposed "investigative reporter" didn't already have PGP installed?
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:50 PM
Jun 2013

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
55. I honestly think that Greenwald never expected to be a go-to reporter for classified documents...
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 06:56 PM
Jun 2013

Well, now he knows and I hope other reporters will assist keeping him up to date technology-wise.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
41. one person's reality is another person's fanatasy..
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:30 PM
Jun 2013

I have to question your judgment based on the many references that you make to the "real world" and "reality." based on the "substance" of every one of your posts, I don't believe you have a very firm grasp of either.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
26. Yes, he does. He was communicating with the traitor in February. Whether he knew the name or not
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 03:49 PM
Jun 2013

is irrelevant.

Greenwald just randomly install encryption systems on his computer whenever some stranger calls him up and asks him to?

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
33. He should have had encryption software all along and investigative journalists communicate with
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:10 PM
Jun 2013

people who have classified information regularly. It is the nature of their job.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
46. Thanks for pointing that out.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:47 PM
Jun 2013

I wonder why this is so hard to accept. Aren't we all here because we're in the same party? Greenwald is not in it and never has been and never will be. He is not our friend and does not need our hearts and flowers.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
50. i'm not in your party, i just vote a straight dem ticket..
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:55 PM
Jun 2013

am I, or others like me, not welcome? I mean, I can stop voting for democrats if that's what you'd like.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
39. Recommend... Thanks for doing the NYT Article in numbered points!
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:29 PM
Jun 2013

So many won't go there to read the link and you made it accessible here to remind folks.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
45. Greenwald doesn't have a timeline problem, he has a serious legal problem
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:44 PM
Jun 2013

and I hope his attorneys give him better advice than he appears to have given Snowden.

p.s. glad I could clear that up. Carry on.

Response to ucrdem (Reply #45)

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
60. you really think that?
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 07:33 PM
Jun 2013

wtf is wrong with you?

57. Predictable
I suspect you'd be happy if a few inconvenient journos had inconvenient, preferably lethal, accidents.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
61. i will say #3 certainly gives me some affinity w/greenwald
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 07:33 PM
Jun 2013

I can totally see myself "not completing the installation process."

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
65. it is funny how little bits of real human experience come through in these things
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 09:42 PM
Jun 2013

like you and I (for all our disagreements) "getting" that bit about the software. This is perhaps horrible, but remember the horrific Danny Pearlman beheading? And they fucked up the recording? They cut that poor man's head off and then someone must have said "hey the little red light wasn't on."

Anyways, hope you are well LM. We have crossed swords many times here but I bet we'd be good friends in real life.

Selah,
'rely

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
66. Aw! Nice post! I'd bet we'd get along well in real life, too.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 09:51 PM
Jun 2013

I've always appreciated your wit and sense of humor.

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