I didn't think it would be that offensive. OP if you're the one who alerted it it was more of a gentle ribbing not a personal attack.

but I am pretty sure it was someone else commenting in the thread... some verbiage from the alert indicates who it might have been. either way... great pic!

sP

on non-allied nations to these non-allied nations?

You must have taken debate classes in grade school.

skills.

FAIL

Real classy jury member we got there.
Good grief.This place is really getting to be an embarrassment.

Hang in there.

considering the title, I expected another "damn that Snowden! He is a no good traitor, and all around super villain!" like some have been saying lately.

I am disappointed.

Might want to try it.

This wouldnt even be an issue if the NSA wasn't spying on the American people

a problem with. After the cluster-fuck George W. Bush left this nation, I can't really blame Democrats for not making addressing any issues with the Patriot Act a top priority in the less than two years they controlled the house and senate.

huh what?

How does someone complaining about :

the secrets and lies in a government Obama said was going to be transparent

I'm sick and tired of people blaming liberals for not fixing every damn thing they have...

a problem with.

NSA isn't really a secret. What they've been doing was brought to light back in 2006. But sure lets blame Obama for something we were dumb enough to forget.

Someone explained it further down the thread. You carry on with your... errr... "sick and tired'ing"?

Can't have it both ways. You can't freak out screaming that he divulged secrets and then in the very same thread pretend there were no secrets and the NSA is just a bastion of transparency.

I like good points.

does snowden have to flee?

get your fucking stories straight.

So dont give me that crap.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/patriot-act-extension-signed-obama-autopen_n_867851.html

to satisfy the 4th amendment.

But hey, don't let that get in the way of some good-ol Obama hatin. We'll show him in 2014 just like we did in 2010, right?

It's not being protected. It's being grossly encroached upon.

The courts almost always side with the government on 4th amendment issues.

Not because the courts are evil or ineffective.

But because the executive branch shouldn't even be asking the courts unless they meet the criteria for a warrant.

Courts frequently having to reject the executive branch is a sign that the executive branch is out-of-control.

But that doesn't make for compelling TV, movies or books. Out-of-control or nearly out-of-control prosecutors are a more compelling story. And after getting that story over and over again, we start to assume it's true.

You are asking for a LOT of trust for a government that hasn't done shit to deserve that trust.

First rule in political science...Absolute power corrupts absolutely. You can't have a secret court issuing secret warrants. That's not the way our government and our justice system is supposed to work. It's supposed to be open to the public. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

If that puts Americans more at risk for a terrorist attack? SO BE IT! It's the cost of living in a free country and Im willing to accept that cost. Your demand for an illusion of safety is infringing upon my rights and liberties to live in a free country.

If we were not fucking around in all these countries in the mid-east, none of these terrorists would even give a shit about this country.

Such as what was discovered in 2006 when the NSA metadata program was first leaked.

No one gives a crap if we are spying on China. No one cares if we are spying on foreign nationals. And we don't need to know such things.

The problem is we are collecting data on AMERICANS on American soil! That's what people are pissed off about.

It makes it look like WE are the enemy.

I'm getting really tired of the people upset by this program being utterly divorced from reality.

So, where the hell do you think all that data on your phone bill comes from? Magic pixies?

Should we jack up everyone's phone bills to "unlimited calling" so that you don't have to trouble your head about metadata?

over for future government grazing.

You are utterly divorced from reality. Once upon a time the government did not know who I called however, thanks to their preent efforts (at our expense $$$ + privacy issues) they do.

The SCOTUS ruled on this in 1979. It's T-mobile's data. They could sell it to marketers, give it to the government, or publish it on a billboard.

they can go to the phone company and collect the data for the number assigned to me. Fine.

What I am objecting to is the collection of data by the gov't pre-emptively, or just in case they have the 'need' in the future to secure a warrant. No.

Are you actually of the belief that the Federal government does phone billing for US citizens?

When this story broke in 2006, it was revealed that the phone companies were just handing over the metadata.

No warrant, no supervision, no due process.

Why could they? Because it's their data. We don't get a say.

You are claiming that returning the data to the whim of the phone companies is better than a process that explicitly requires a warrant and Congressional oversight.

And no, it's also not true that I am claiming that the data should be at the whim of phone companies, rather than requiring a warrant. The phone company needs to keep that metadata confidential (metadata also includes specific geographical location data, in the case of smart phones). The government needs to get a SPECIFIC WARRANT for SPECIFIC PEOPLE when they have actual PROBABLE CAUSE. Thank you.

the rest of the country does.

I am correct.

That some people’s interpretation of how the Democratic process works in the framework of a Constitutional Democratic Republican … especially when it conflicts with their fantasy world where there really are national security risks and people out there that really do want to bring harm to American people.

I know … I know … “give me liberty or give me death!” and that “giving up liberty for security” clap trap that sounds great … until the bomb goes off in your neighborhood. Then, it’s “The government really dropped the ball on that one!”

{witness Boston: 2013}

I think that may be exactly the sort of thing he was talking about. Take courage--most of us find we aren't terribly afraid of terrorists, but we like our freedoms. It takes a real load off when you release yourself from being frightened of the things you're conditioned to be frightened of.

everyone is noble, until there is a cost to pay ... and then, only if it is them that has to pay the cost.

Most of us aren't terribly afraid of terrorist/terrorism BECAUSE we have not experienced terrorism ... All of us are fearful of "the lose of our freedoms" even though it really only in the abstract.

state. If the Democrats can't even fix that then what can they do? I don't want to hear any excuses. Fixing this problem is basic to the survival of this country as a democracy.

in such short order I figure it had been done ahead..."just for the right moment". We have been taken for a magical ride in the name of security....sorta like the Clean Air Act, NCLB, etc.

So no fuss, no buss.

Those that apparently embrace the propaganda spewed from the Corp-Media.

Then we won't hear the sound of Snowden cheerleading around here

They're as fanatical as Teahadists - and they share a common goal: they hate Obama. It's the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" group.

Oh, and despite their love for this country, they have NO qualms in attacking her first and foremost. They're the reason why Cons and Rightwingers can rightfully say that some are part of the "blame America first" crowd, only, in this case, it's "blame Obama first".

Then again, they didn't vote for that black man to be in the White House, either. What I've also seen today is, and what's alarming, is that there are more pro-Snowden and Manning posts than posts about the ruling that the Rightwingers on SCOTUS have effectively gutted the VRA. You'd think that these "Liberals" would be OUTraged against the civil rights of minorities in our country. I guess it's not as important.

though I am about to post about the spat between Reed and Greenwald, this issue shines a certain light on things..

when that's the crux of your argument, then you lose. now tell us all that we're racists.

You are against a policy of the government so you are haters. Really? lol.

binary thinking. everything is black and white in their "reality based" world. no nuance, no grey area. if you're A, then you must be B. it would never occur to them that there is a C.

but I can think clearly and don't follow the poutrage of the day.

Snowden signifies very little long run but he's a hook for the right wing.

Other issues that REALLY matter to more than Liberatarians include

citizens united
climate change
voting rights

will you embrace the surveillance state when president jeb has the NSA at his fingertips?

The particulars are somethng else that require a major breakdown of what happened and when by whom and what now.

More than can really be worked out in a few lines at DU

I lived through Nixon and Reagan, surveillance is not my number one concern.

By the way do you log out of your google account or do you allow them to gather all you page clicks?

See what I mean? This issue is the poutrage of the day and there is plenty of loose thinking on the topic