General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTraitor Exception Clause: "I don't agree with the secret data I stole, so it's okay"
Forget the methods used or the actual data, since when does taking top secret data out of the country and sharing with enemies transcend the act of treason?
Can a bank robber get an exception because the bank got some of the money from profiting from bad mortgages? Can a thief get an exception for robbery if the watch he stole was a knock-off?
It's the act, not someone's moral opinion on the data or its collection method.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)We used to hail defectors from the Soviet Union. Context is everything, not just when leaking/spying is involved. So yes, some people and some governments do accept the "I didn't agree, so I stole it" rationale. But only if it's in their interest.
pnwmom
(108,996 posts)Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)Others might want to argue that we never gave people reasons to defect to Russia. But I'm not sure that that is strictly true.
pnwmom
(108,996 posts)Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)pnwmom
(108,996 posts)It could end up being Russia, or it could end up being somewhere else.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)In espionage, I usually understand it to mean "collaboratibg with, sharibg secrets with". Simply transiting Russia doesn't make hin a defector to Russia in that sense.
But I get your angle.
pnwmom
(108,996 posts)Though Snowden says he has many to share.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/defect?s=t
to desert a cause, country, etc., especially in order to adopt another (often followed by from or to ): He defected from the U.S.S.R to the West.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)And anyway I made it clear that I was talking about "defection" as it pertains to espionage and not the more loose dictionary definition...
Aerows
(39,961 posts)apparently.
ETA: Mr. Soze. Fascinating name for you, too. LOL.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Snowden called out the government for violating our most sacred rights as citizens. NO ONE can tamper with those rights.
Snowden has brought to light the unlawful conduct of those who would spy on their own citizens. He is a truth-teller and whistle-blower.
ksoze
(2,068 posts)My bad.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)ksoze
(2,068 posts)avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Well we must then hang him based on some vague "some"!!
That's the rational thing to do.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Though knee-jerk terms such as "traitor" are easily invoked to avoid talking about our personal responsibility to make moral decisions.
ksoze
(2,068 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)...ignoring as it does the possibility of multiple levels of loyalty. Absolute adherence to the letter of Snowden's contract and/or his oath might conflict with each other, and both of those with his loyalty to our interests.
I can't prove that Snowden's were all altruistic, but if he can ultimately be said to have acted much more in support of the Constitution than he did against specific regulations, the word "traitor" would be seen as the simplistic label it is--at this point, at least, before we know what he has done and why.
You and I may have much cause to change our opinions before we learn all we are allowed to learn. Why make up our minds in the first two weeks?