If he would have stayed on the spying of Americans that would have been one thing, but the little prick decided to expose our spying on our adversaries, and as far as I am concerned, that aspect makes him traitor

Does calling him a liar, criminal, dater of bikini clad girlfriend, high school dropout, or whatever other silly critique pops up tomorrow, add to his traitorishness?

Snowden is irrelevant, what he revealed, is not.
That is what we should be focused on, not some silly distraction about Snowden's whereabouts.

However, the other elements HE focused on to try and damage the U.S. are works of someone trying to hurt America, and I will personally NOT tolerate that.

Giving secure information, and slamming the U.S. in the presence of our adversaries, China and Russia is a problem. It also demonstrates that his intent is to hurt the U.S., by giving aid to China and Russia against us.

If it was to prevent potential NSA abuses to Americans that is where the focus would have been, it wasn't, because he choose to focus it on all types of spying.

Isn't calling him a traitor enough?

NOT a betrayal, but exposing our NSA spying on China and other international involvements is a betrayal

I don't think highly of a lot of people, but I don't need to smear them with inconsequential crap when what they are doing is already pretty shitty (re Republicans in .... well anywhere).

I get that you feel betrayed and that's fine. I don't agree, but the way we feel about this stuff is different, so it's all good.

The smear part is what I don't get.

from laughing.

Poor Greenwald.

Poor innocent victim.

just the message! Haven't you been listening to Greenwald at all?

disagreed with you. If you have a message, post it. If I disagree with it, I will tell you why and I will focus on your message. I won't call you names, expose, after paying for opposition research, that you once watched a porn movie, or shopped at Walmart. I will focus on the message. But so far I haven't seen you post any message, just opinions, which are wrong imo.

suggested they were doing. They COULD ignore him and prove him wrong, but that was always one of the most amusing parts of his blog, as it grew and grew during the Bush years. He would write a blog slamming the Bush Admin, and all these Bush supporters would come into the threads, after he had predicted their arrival. Lol, it got boring after a while, they were so predictable.

Anyhow, he's a great journalist and I'm happy that he has received so much support from the people who matter on the Left.

He has revealed more than he probably intended though, regarding some on the 'left' who appear to be willing to throw away our rights with the same abandon as their counterparts were prepared to do back in the bad old days when we had Bush to deal with.

but it is, but isn't..

?

I trust the viciousness of their digging. Still don't like him but while he might skew and distort, I still don't think he's an outright liar.

textbook

I had to view the thread in incognito mode - yep, the culprits were in my ignore list.

and the bullying and distraction become all too obvious without one's ignore list in gear

But I like to see what everyone has to say. Thanks for the info.

of projection because I knew what s/he meant and never would have thought what you suggested.

As I said, I dont have anyone on ignore, so I dont have an occasion to "not log in" as Im always logged in. Im kinda surprised youve never heard of sockpuppets, though. I thought it was a pretty common phrase on discussion boards.

I'm kinda surprised you've never heard of what sockpuppets are.

Viewing a site while not logged in would defeat the purpose of the puppet as it could not post the words you put in it's mouth, what you describe is closer to "lurking" which is not necessarily a negative thing, it just means observing.

FYI - the admins can spot a puppet just by comparing IP addys, it's not hard and if you are a sock, I suggest you just post under your actual login because if not they will find out about you and send you a message.

I just figured "incognito" = disguised = sockpuppet. Its quite possible that the poster meant lurking. Either way .

As for me, Ive first joined (Du2) in 2004 and was there briefly for the primary season. Computer died a few years later, and we changed ISP's. I decided to come back in 2008 for primary season again but didnt remember my login, email, or even my user ID. So I rejoined using my current email, under this user id. It is the only ID Ive logged in under since I rejoined in 2008. If you suspect me to have a sockpuppet, I invite you to alert the admins. I give them my full permission to put your suspicions to rest.

lately - calling people out as sock puppets just to smear them. I also wanted to point out that there really is no epidemic of sock puppets because they really are easy for the admins to spot.

what I meant more as a warning to people thinking about it came of as an accusation against you, it wasn't really meant that way, but more for everyone to read.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.

I understand where you were coming from. I wasnt aware of sock accusation plague, honestly. I was just being snarky about someone who has me on ignore for whatever reason. I honestly believe that most of us here arent trying to hurt or insult anyone. Sometimes the board gets the best of everyone, I think, myself included.

We're good.

It's almost unseemly, but one simply can't help but to join in.

Hey... wait a sec! You can't see or hear them because of your Haughty Helmet.

More's the pity. The punch is mighty flavorful!

Have fun in Jonestown.

*PLONK*

warrants? That was the question I wanted an answer to, considering they are spying on me also and we have a right to know how they were able to do that.

Now we have some more information, which SHOULD have been made public as soon as Bush was gone.

I look forward to seeing all of today's authoritarian followers mocking tomorrow's authoritarian followers for being such lemmings, and proudly pondering how they could so casually surrender their rights.

but you just know that when president jeb is calling the shots that these same people will be blaming progressives for not showing up to vote, despite all evidence to the contrary.

that didn't see fit to get this outraged during the Bush Administration.

why not spend a little time at the DU2 archives to get a feel for how pissed we were back then?

I was talking about that world. The real one.

you know, the real world.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't one of them, and that you are at least consistent in your servility.

But Greenwalds not the story. Oy.

I would like to know more about this rumour of him and the porn industry.

But on second thought, NO THANKS! my mind's eye couldn't take that.

I am mostly keeping out of these kinds of threads about him because if you comment, then you are a State Surveillor! Because only the gobmint knew these things about his life, not his acquaintances or anything like that.

They unlocked secret files on GG.

How much does that pay, anyway, that State Surveillor job?

I dont usually comment on these threads either for the same reason. It took a whole 5 responses before someone cried textbook authoritarian disorder or someshit like that.

Personally, I couldnt give two dog turds about Glen Greenwald. I just think the hypocrisy is amazingly entertaining. "Its not about me! Look at me! Its not about me! Look at me!" FFS! Make up your mind! But hey, pointing that out makes me an authoritarian.

I cant seem to find that State Surveillor job on any website. Dammit! Maybe Snowden can tell us where to look.

you are an authoritarian.

Anonymous. Very important topic which all Americans should be informed about. Were you around when they were exposed? When their proposal to smear Greenwald and a few others who were writing about the Bank of America and the Chamber of Commerce (remember them?) and hoping to get a contract for their 'work'.

We found out so much about how despicable these operatives are. They had to abandon that campaign after it was revealed that they actually get lots of money for this despicable 'work'. Dirty tricks it used to be called, but apparently it's big business now.

Greenwald was just a blogger back then but the BOA didn't take kindly to anyone revealing the corruption they were involved in. We cheered him on of course, being Liberal Democrats.

I am so glad he is writing about this. We'll never get it from the Corporate Media as they don't want the public to know how despicable they are.

I havent heard anything about that. Is this happening now? Or something that happened long ago? No. I dont remember hearing anything about Greenwald before this. I'm really interested in learning about it though. Do you have a link handy? If not, no worries, I try the google.

I believe Jeremy Scahill is interested in who is paying to smear Greenwald this time, HB Gary had to drop their bid for the contract after it was exposed by Anonymous. But it's clear that someone got the contract and if Anonymous does as good a job as they did last time, we're likely to find out.

I will definitely look it up. This damn Zimmerman trial is so distracting. Havent gotten anything done all day. Thanks again for the info. Im nothing if not open to new information.

began when HB Gary contractor, threatened to expose Anonymous, claiming he was that good at what he did. Lesson learned, don't ever threaten Anonymous or challenge them in any way. At the time Greenwald has been writing about the Chamber of Commerce and Bank of America.

Anonymous hacked into HB Gary's emails, thousands of them, and oh, what was learned about how our country works. Most people were shocked to see Greenwald's name as a 'target for a smear campaign' because of his writing about BOA and the Chamber of Commerce. He was just a blogger so it gave people some idea of the lengths they will go to to silence people.

After the exposure, HB Gary, at least that part of their operation, shut down. So the contract they were proposing against Greenwald was assumed to have gone nowhere. There were others targeted also, there were details about how they do it. Eg, find out if they have children, what schools they go to, what churches etc. Let them know 'we have photos of your kids, your wife etc'.

There was outrage, for a while. One Democrat launched a committee to look into the possible involvement of the FBI in all of this since they were implicated.

I couldn't possibly tell the whole story, but once you start looking I imagine you would be as shocked as most people were at the time.

The latest personal attacks on Greenwald appear to be the exact kind of material they described themselves looking for. But if that's all they got, and were paid the huge amounts these contractors get, they didn't earn their money, yet.

hopefully its a good place to start. http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/02/15/hbgary-execs-run-for-cover-as-hacking-scandal-escalates/

Obviously youve given me much information already. wow. I cant believe this happened in 2011 and I dont remember hearing anything about it. I know I was working a lot, but I didnt think Id missed *that* much.

How does the FBI get involved in something like this and never gets investigated? Ill admit theres a certain level of shady backroomedness (not a word) Ive always expected from the Govt. I guess thats why my point of view with this whole NSA thing is "yeah, I figured". But photos of your wife, kids, etc? Sounds more like the mob to me. I can tell Im going to be pretty pissed off by the time Ive done my homework here.

I had no idea you could hire someone just to ruin someone else. wow.

during the Bush years, especially when you kept reading the same 'talking points'. But I had no idea that there were corps, 'Spy Corps' who could be hired to do this kind of thing.

And yeah, the thing with the kids, that really got to people. It showed the lengths and the depravity and imo, actual danger posed by these people.

Here is a link you may not have found yet, from Salon I believe where some of the emails, re 'investigating the families' were published:

http://www.salon.com/2011/02/15/palantir/

I have completely changed my views about this country over the past several years. I agree that this stuff should have been thoroughly investigated. Those emails re people's children alone should have sparked as criminal investigation, but it was all ignored. A few Dems tried, Conyers and the W.V. Rep did demand an investigation by Congress, but it went nowhere.

This case was like watching a fantasy Spy Movie, except it was real and the 'good guys' didn't win, yet.

who likes the attention. Clearly he and Snowden have a lot in common.

I mean Matt Taibbi has exposed to my mind far more damaging information and his reporting is just as good if not better.

But no one's rolling there eyes and making jag off gestures whenever he shows up. There are no threads on Taibbi the person.

That's because he's not an @sshat.

attacked right here on a regular basis. How about Hastings, were you around for the personal attacks on him?

I hope Scahill finds out who is behind this. We would all like to know.

I guess Greenwald hired HB Gary to attack Anonymous so they would reveal these plans so that he could 'get attention'. And maybe liberal writers like having their families smeared and threatened by scum like HB Gary. And the smear campaign continues.

He's just another priggish attention whore.

If Greenwald was seriously interested in protecting the people of the United States, after reading most what he has been writing about, he would testify before Congress about what he has been told by his snitch, Snowden.

Journalists do not use Twitter to become famous.

unintentionally, of course.

journalists are not only encouraged to use twitter for promotion, but you're seriously rocking the boat if you don't.

You got a few people's pants in a knickers (or should I say into hyperbolic ranting) but what you really got?

Come on, you reading this?


Bradley Manning released some real top secret shit- the cables caused problems across the globe with international relations..
So far you really got nothin, so where's this big story that is going to "flip Washington upside down"?



Do your job, what, you getting lazy?

More than three weeks now and bupkis.

But hey! I certainly have had a fun time hearing Glenn describe his enemies list.

Super journalism, Glenn! Do they award a Pulitzer for nanny-nanny-boo-boo?

"Fuckin' Greenwald" is in his filter. My sources tell me he has you officially listed under "poopstain".

to make CYA statements and pursue Snowden.

Even though we already knew the NSA had the billing details from some not all carriers-


You damn well know that they are aware of everything he "stole", these supposed 5 computers worth of data that we haven't seen. Maybe there is something really good in there. What you got Greenwald? Why you teasing us!

You got something or not? This it? This the end of your career making story!

but something tells me we're going to be waiting a very long time.

when he shouldn't have...

not rocket science dude LOL. And no they don't have metadata for EVERYONES phone calls. Jesus christ on a fucking cracker you even know how many carriers are licensed to operate by the FCC?

And no, they can't get CONTENTS of everyones phone call. It really is a little more complicated than what you see in the movies

"The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called Prism, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

The Guardian has verified the authenticity of the document, a 41-slide PowerPoint presentation – classified as top secret with no distribution to foreign allies – which was apparently used to train intelligence operatives on the capabilities of the program. The document claims "collection directly from the servers" of major US service providers."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data

"directly from the servers"

Which was denied by all the companies involved, and you know what would happen to Microsoft's expanding Cloud Based service offerings if business customers thought the NSA was able to get all their "stuff"...

People read too many spy novels. Do you have any idea of the number of packets that flow through the public internet in the United States alone? The NSA would need a couple 100 OC192 into every Tier1 and Tier2 internet provider alone.

like about the "contents" issue, etc.

Release the actual documents....

I'm not surprised that they don't have anybody there that understands technology just like I'm not surprised we have US Senators that think the Internet is a series of tubes.

Plus I've seen enough power point presentations in my life to know that things put together for management to review and get a sense of what's going on are usually one sentence tidbits that don't tell the whole story.

I noticed a distinct absence of any link whatsoever to back up what
you are saying, but I'm supposed trust at face value, your speculations,
as opposed to trusting what a credible news source is reporting?

Apparently you take me for a gullible fool. Thanks for playing, but
no thanks for your private conjecture as to what's "really" going on.

Most of what I've read on DU for the past 3 weeks is bullshit---

What do you do for a living?

Every use wireshark? Ever actually do testing with LEA? Because I have...

You know our biggest problem, the lack of people in the FBI and other intelligence services who know Farsi. That's why Bush's #1 fuckup was diverting 80% of the troops who could speak to people in Afghanistan and sending them to Iraq.

A war I protested against in downtown Dallas...


So, what do you do for a living again?

I'm actually a happily retired community organizer, who
mostly worked with NGOs domestically to level the economic
playing field, get poor people into their own homes, my last major
gig was being hired to get 70 homeless people incorporated as
their own 501c3, that is democratically operated, with annual
elections of officers, etc.

These 70 became "members" of a membership based not-for-
profit, that the city (under quite a bit of duress and intense
public pressure) has leased land to, where they are building
a sustainable urban village of the poor, by the poor, for the
poor. It's called Dignity Village.

They/we started out as 8-10 pissed-off homeless people who
popped up some tents on city or ODOT land, determined to use
a chunk of public land on which to create a safe, sanitary place
to sleep at night. We played months of cat-and-mouse games
with the city, with them "evicting" them from one site, only to
have us call the press to announce a "shopping cart parade" to
the next (as yet undisclosed) publicly own site where they pop
up tents anew.

Now they are in their 13th year, and have built a village they
are proud of, because they are doing it for themselves, taking
care of one another; rather than having housed "poverty pimps"
dictate to them what is possible, what is real, etc.

You can check out the Village here, if you like ... there are many
great pics showing how it has developed over time. I'm very very
proud of the work I did with the Village and other poor people, to
help balance-out the gross injustices that our capitalistic greed-based
system visits upon those without wealth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dignity_Village

Let me know when you are ready to talk about the subject at hand again-

(Side note, I was installing Newbridge 3624's and Micom multiplexers when I was 20 years old)

It was cool when we thought a BRI was fast

which is I suppose the point you are trying to make.
That you do know a LOT about the interwebs & computers
and such.

That was a good career choice back in the day, and still is.

Why do you think it's a-ok for NSA to snoop into our private
affairs, with little or no checks & balances with congress or
anyone really? Can you tell me that part again?

and there are checks...

The FISA court actually works believe it or not---

no matter how many times people write that they give a "blank check"


You know most of the FBI warrants, the vast majority, are for kidnappings, child abductions, cross state line crimes?

About as believable tp me as the NSA/WH claims about illusory "checks"

hate way back when we also hated spying on the American people) lie to Congress?

I don't know why I think of it when Clapper comes up.

information and I responded by saying that 'I thought it was old news'. Which is it? You all can't keep your stories straight.

Have you read the new documents released today? Any comment on what was in them? I know Greenwald is fascinating and probably so does he, but way more important is what is being revealed and yet you don't seem interested at all. Just in HIM. Lol!

what new document was released today, got a link?

why the hoo-hah?? Why has Snowden been indicted? Why is Greenwald being smeared as a possible traitor if "we already knew" it?

boy, ain't that the truth. the authoritarians here have been shitting their pants over this.

Last time I heard giving away the nation's secrets to the enemy was called treason. Considering that the information affects the safety of all Americans, over 300 million of us, I see nothing to laugh about. And that is doesn't carry a death sentence is even more disturbing. So is the fact that he took the job precisely for the purpose of espionage is also disturbing.

Why are you making such a "big deal" out of it?

this thread and inform those still using the old talking point!

China? Russia? they're now our enemies?

The First Amendment spells out what the issues are.

He whines too much.

But I bet Whoopie and the other Liberals there, would love to have him on.

'The View', lol, is that where people are getting their 'news' from now? Explains a lot about the state of the country when someone talks about an actual journalist who isn't so tied into the top 1% as Barbara is, in the same breath.

Do you have any kids?
I don't know much about you is why I ask.

People have discussed "The View" here at the DU before, many times.
Barbara was a journalist, and she was even an anchor for one of the big 3 networks for awhile.

I've read quite a bit about her and her 1% friends. She doesn't have many among the working class though. There are rewards for never upsetting the status quo, one of them is you always have a place on the Corporate Media.

Clearly you know very little about her.

because of the secret control "they" have over journalists who are asking Questions. Hey, Glenn, even I know that real journalists aren't supposed to ask softball questions. It's not an attack by anyone.
Grow up.

He was right about the Senate Democrats during the healthcare bill in process in 2009. And Glenn Greenwald isn't the only one who has written about surveillance being abused for pernicious ends by U.S. government. Michael Hastings did as well.

That NY Daily News story, "Glenn Greenwald, journalist who helped Edward Snowden expose NSA spying, once was a lawyer who owed" was so lovingly quoted and rec'd by certain people at DU but it speaks says much more about deplorable thinking skills than it does about Greenwald.

The crayon-scribbler of that hit piece is Darah Gregorian, none other than the son of Vartan Gregorian, head of the Carnegie Corporation of New York. His questionable research skills and dishonesty have landed him in court several times, like the time he literally raped someone's facebook account and wrote "Gender Bend Shocker, Kinky Sex Suit Gal is a Man" for which he was sued.

It's laughable and extremely sad. I'm sticking to laughing and a wholesale dismissal of people who give any credibility to that kind of trash.