And I agree with everything you said!

K & R

If so, what exactly should the judge do? Should she tell the prosecutor that in her opinion the word was "coons" because this would satisfy a DU'er who believes the word was "coons" instead of "punks"?

By the way, the judge is a white american woman, too.

But I heard the tape and I heard "coons."

I would imagine they didn't use it because Zimmerman denied its what he said in his statement and they can't prove it. It's possible this is something they argued over in pretrial but I really don't know for sure.

The prosecutor was referring to an interview with the police there days after the shooting. It appears Zimmerman said both "fucking coons" and "fucking punks". I have said it before and I will say it again, his supporters are no better than the KKK.

I don't believe the judge is racist - not at all. I believe that justice under florida law and in this case particularly is trying to wash racism out of this case where, unfortunately, George Zimmerman's racist beliefs as expressed in the 911 call (

) in my opinion go to the heart of the matter.

If Zimmerman was ITCHING for a confrontation with negligence at best or premeditation at worst, than the bench working to keep race out of this is in no way serving truth or justice.

Clearly Zimmerman didn't believe the 911 tape would clearly pick this up, as he says it under his breath. This case was all about race from the beginning, only complete idiots think otherwise.

I listened to the audio you provided and I clearly heard ”punks”. The more times I listened, the less sure I became...but in all sincerity, I believe it says ”punks.”

A year ago I thought I heard ”coons” but not today. Maybe I heard a different audio file a year ago..?

Regardless, I stand with you and totally support your passion for justice in this matter.

TYY

One where he uses "coons" and one where he uses "punks."

It's much more probabilistic that he said "punks" rather than some archaic hillbilly word. And to think he would utter such a thing in the presence of a 911 dispatcher? Come on.

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Do you live in the American South? I do, and even today hearing the word "coons" is less rare than you seem to think it is.

Edit: capitalization.

And what we heard was "fucking coons." No doubt about it whatsoever.

Edit: to clear up bad grammar.

Good luck with that. Because what I heard in that tape was "the walrus was Paul," and I'm sticking to it.

Much needed levity!

He clearly said "fucking punks". There's the pop of the "P" in the beginning, the vowel sounding like an "uh" and not an "ooo" sound, and the break of the "k" at the end....

Let me be clear, this isn't a comment about the other aspects of the case. But in this particular audio clip, he clearly said "punks" IMO, and people who hear "coons" hear that because they want to.

after the multiple listens, I heard punks too. I think it will sound like whichever you want it to sound like. Just decide which one you want to hear and it will sound like that.

Thank you


Having been raised in white suburban schools, majored in World Arts & Cultures at UCLA and having served in the Army , I am hardly a black nationalist!

I love people and this country. But this week has left me angry and frightened for my children's prospects.

Thanks for your service!

I love my country too. I can remember back in '08 before primaries were over, my husband and I discussed that a woman and an African-American were the top contenders. We both thought that the woman, Hillary of course, would win because there was just too much racism. We were pleasantly surprised when Obama won and I even volunteered to help get him elected. Now it seems that his election brought the racists out of the woodwork! Fox News and others use their thinly veiled code words and I've actually been shocked at the level of ignorance and hate directed at our President.

And now this case continues to prove the level of racism in this country. I'm disturbed by the attitudes about a young, unarmed black man who was just walking home. Between those afraid of black and brown people and gun nuts who think we should all be armed to handle "fucking punks" (and let's be honest, these groups have a large overlap) is anyone of color safe just walking down the street?

but I did not hear the word 'coon' being uttered by anyone on that recording.

Please explain why you seem to think the word 'punks' sounds like 'coon'?

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2013, 06:41 PM - Edit history (1)

And contrary to what others are saying the prosecutors did not say he said "fucking punks" in the call to police before the shooting, they say he said it in an interview three days after the shooting. It appears he said both "fucking coons" and "fucking punks".

Welcome to DU, and don't let the hateful comments get you down. The people calling you out for not having many posts forget that they didn't always have many either.

so some decide to complain about decisions of the judge. See ## 4 + 5 here, to learn some 'facts.' I expect the jury will get the facts, and if members are confused as are some here, they will ask the judge for clarifying evidence; that's the way the system works.

At Sat Jun 29, 2013, 04:16 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

And not just The Scream, but he called him an "F---in' Coon!!!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023129029

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Accuses anyone who doesn't agree of being racist. Uses racist terms. Obvious TOS violation. Says all White Americans are A-holes.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jun 29, 2013, 04:24 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Great post! And this is from a gay, white American who completely understands this posters rage and anger. The alerter needs to check their own unearned privileges before trying to shut down this conversation.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Letting steam off. Doesn't seem that personal in terms of attacks
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: wow
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Racism is racism, no matter what race you are.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I did not mean to indict all of white america by any stretch. Its an unfortunate consequence of race in america that generalization is at times necessary to communicate points. That does not excuse it and for those who are offended, I am sorry.

I knew I would be alerted, but I felt I had to get this off my chest. Racism is about power at the end of the day, and is never right, even from me or any other black person I admit.

Indeed, this is a VERY generalized screed at the powers-that-be in my world. It is NOT personally directed.

The man carried a loaded weapon with a bullet in the chamber and followed a kid who was not harming anyone. These f-ing gun nuts here on DU are actually supportive of his actions and their posts reflect that. Of course they deny it, but they also claim to be Democrats when it is clear they are not.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/crime/2012/04/05/nr-savidge-enhanced-zimmerman-audio.cnn.html

...and notwithstanding the fact that by enhanced it means that the recording was subject to a form of manipulation, I still hear "Coons" much more so than "Punks".

I definitely hear the air over the lips for the 'puh', and then 'awn' / 'uhn' and into the 'nkz' at the end.

f'ing cooons, which sounds nothing like f'ing punks. There is a definitive c sound at the beginning of the slightly drawn out word, not a p sound. There is also a definitive ns sound at the end, not a ks sound.

The "expert" needs to have his hearing aids checked.

The problem is that they already attempted to hire some clowns whose methods were junk, and dismissed by the judge.

Are there audio experts whose methods are really scientifically accepted and valid? I have no idea.

If there are, we are not sure whether they will determine that "coons" was said. Worth giving it a shot though.

...and why it would be difficult to find sound expertise(pun intended!)

My OP was inflammatory, was rude, was insulting to some and I am sorry.

I understand how some would find this insulting given its generalizations, especially that last line.

I still struggle to understand a perceived sense of victimization among some whites that has seemingly grown by leaps and bounds in the past decade, but I will try to connect with patience and understanding as opposed to flame out with anger and fear.

Love Du in all its glory, glad to join a good dialogue when I can.

in your OP. I've never listened to the audio. Still not going to yet.

You were ranting, but you are right. The underlying bigotry in this country is overwhelming. I have been very disappointed by what I have had to endure. Friends whom I have had to disassociate. It has left me alone. I have few associations now. I will not tolerate at this point in my life any longer these people. When I was young, I tried to ignore it. I set it asside. But I cannot any longer. When the president was elected I was curious as to what was going to happen. I knew the bigots had their backs against the wall. I knew they were frieking out. I called for them to come out into the light and stand up for their beliefs. Instead they cowardly hid behind the teabagger movement. That is where they are now.
When some teabagger tries to tell you they are not a bigot, they are lying.
I dont blame you at all. The arrogance displayed by these ignorant assholes for the 54 years I have endured them has been enough. Its time for reckoning. Its time to say enough.
You shout your message from where ever you are. I know I will.

I was not offended at all, I am well aware of the long history of racism in this country and I think you have every right to express your frustration. The fact is an innocent black kid was murdered and a lot of white people are defending the murderer, the people who defend this shit are the same type of people who defended the KKK in years past.

As I am sure you are well aware I am not the only white person who thinks it is disgusting that anyone would defend George Zimmerman, there are many of us who are on your side and those of us who oppose the murder of unarmed black kids know your post was not directed at us.

You go, my friend!

I appreciate your passion and my cracka' ass stands with you 110%.

TYY

as another middle aged white woman, who is also a MOTHER. For the life of me, I can't understand the way some people think. It's also getting tiresome to hear the whines about "reverse racism" which just reeks of ignorance. I was taught in sociology class that racism could not be claimed by the part of society that wields the power. Obviously. Hope there's justice for the poor kid.

George Zimmerman profiled, stalked, and murdered an unarmed teen because of his appearance. It doesn't even matter if Zimmerman knew that Trayvon Martin was black or not. Zimmerman decided that Martin was a potential criminal just because Martin was a young male wearing a hoodie, and Zimmerman took the law into his own hands and ended up murdering somebody.

Zimmerman's intent was clearly malicious. His behavior was reckless. He shot and killed somebody.

Personally, I think that the arguments about exactly which word Zimmerman said are a needless distraction. His actions are what matter.

And I have zero sympathy for Zimmerman over his supposed injuries at the hands of the person he stalked, accosted, and ultimately murdered. Personally I suspect that the injuries were self-inflicted and used as an excuse after Zimmerman realized that he might be in a little bit of trouble for murdering an unarmed kid.

but as a matter of this audio 'evidence' alone, it is not only a distraction but if I was on a jury and was told it said one of two things, I would be highly prone to reject both options, clearly someone is improvising one of the two. In addition, the word 'Punks' is frequently used toward young men being characterized as criminal and I have only seen or heard the other one in historical or literary contexts. Heard plenty of really vile racist crap, that word was antique when I was a kid, but I don't know if it is common in the South. Slurs for gay people are also not the same now as they were, so if a person told me 'he called him a pederast' I'd be puzzled but if a person said 'he called me a fag' that would ring true.

Now, 'punks' is itself a slur, it ascribes membership in a larger group to an individual by appearance, race is often a big part of that appearance although white teens get called punks in that context as well. The word has prison connotations, implies subservience to controlling others including sexual subservience and it is in fact a very vicious and deeply prejudiced word which is commonly used to characterize young men as criminal. Point being that if you tell me 'he just called him a punk' I'd say that calling someone a punk is a bigoted slur in that context. A word of hate.
So it is not like he either said 'coon' or 'brilliant genius' he used one of two disparaging terms about a stranger with prejudice. Punks is not a compliment, it is a slur. Of course, 'punk' is used to imply homosexual behavior as well, and thus many folks think it is a spiffy word, they use it freely.

No surprise they're trying to whitewash the whole thing. They didn't even want to charge Zimmerman. Hell, I'm half surprised they didn't throw a parade in his honor.

The Right Wing jumped to this guy's defense right off the bat and their FIRST tactic was to keep repeating, "There's no evidence that this was racial!" and then to point to the likes of Sharpton as PROOF that the ONLY racism here is REVERSE racism by those with an agenda of self promotion by false claims of victimization.

What is it you're trying to achieve?

If it's to get your ya-yas off, I ain't interested.

And if it's to get your ass kissed, you're going about it the wrong way.

...since I know that's not how it was intended. But fairly to your questions;

I am very concerned about the obvious institutional racism that surrounds this case and its narratives in the media. I am very insecure about the obvious anti-black activism of the Tea Party and it's proxies in the SCOTUS, House, MSM and States where that power is based.

I am still trying to figure out what I as an African-american have ever done to antagonize anyone else; because the political attacks against me based on only the color of my skin have been continual for all of my life by a certain group of people.

And I have seen ethnic-cleansing in person in Iraq; I have seen the end to which guns and anarchy and tribalism and rule by might lead - and it is dead children for nothing but simple greed, ego and hate. And I cannot help but see my children in a world where thugs with guns are the norm and i am concerned. Because I really do believe that is the world to which the Tea Party and their ilk aspire - I take them at their word!

I'm not getting my ya-yas off and I wasn't looking to get my ass kissed.

I guess I was trying to question why, in light of this week in America(which had its silver-linings worth mentioning!), why white americans are so fearful? I believe in the equation that hate is fear-based at its core - and pride-based as fear chiefly uses pride. I would guess it's existential in a post-9/11 world that is increasingly "multi-polar" and where that perch is in question. China, Russia and Iran are real threats although ones I think with soul-searching on all sides need not end in global tragedy and catastrophe.

But again, from a pratical standpoint, Americans, and moreso white Americans are the foremost polity in this world- for 75 years going. Unquestionably! And maybe that's it; when America power was ascending and with struggle; minorities, workers, women, gays, immigrants all moved painstakingly but surely to greater liberty and inclusion. Now that America is wavering - the reverse has happened in staggering fashion.

If you can recommend the right way to go about it, I am all ears. But having seen this reversal in my lifetime its shocking. I am sure that it is not me that's changed in this respect though.

Edited for spelling and some content

Your right, after all.

I'm 40. I know it started when I was three. A little speech Reagan gave in 1976 in Mississippi.

I shrug shoulders now and say: I haven't been in charge all of these years. So it's on "them".

making historic progress and recently gained some footing with DOMA being overturned-soon I might have equal rights to you! So I am bothered that you want to claim reversal of progress i 'staggering fashion' in the time of our greatest court victory of all time. You have no support for your assertion at all, and there is much to counter that pessimistic outlook.
Here is another thing to consider. About words and such. You type this " a world where thugs with guns are the norm" in a thread about racist words. Frequently on DU folks say the word 'thug' is racist, and they call people who use it racist. But you use it in a thread about racist words, very casually.

"8. In right-wing commentary, I've seen people use "thug" as a racist codeword
(because all African-Americans are criminals, according to right-wing mythology )

Example of use: "I moved to the suburbs because all kinds of welfare mothers, gangbangers, and thugs moved into my neighborhood."

Translation: "I moved to the suburbs because some upwardly mobile African-Americans moved into my neighborhood."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101627207

To let the wingnutariat steal a perfectly useful word — 'thug' — and bend and break it to their uses.

Thugs 'R' thugs: low-brow, low-achieving, lowlifes, who can be found wearing every skin color that human beings produce.

The officer gets a little defensive at this point. ....

Then Zimmerman whispers something.
“What is that you whispered?” the officer asks. “Fucking what?”
“Punks,” Zimmerman says.
This time, the officer seems genuinely taken aback. “He wasn’t a fucking punk,” he responds.

Thank you so much for telling it like it is. Based on what I've learned since Trayvon Martin was gunned down but prior to the trial, I don't know how anyone can be informed Democrats and not see the acts of Zimmerman TO THIS POINT as anything but racist. I believe Zimmerman is a bigot and a racist although there is a possibility he is ignorant of the prejudices he holds. There's always a possibility. Just like there is a possibility he will be found not guilty regardless of what you and I and many others here believe.

But given that there may be Democrats who are not students of history and thus ignorant, one would think they'd wait to declare for one side or the other and follow the trial with an open mind, weigh the evidence witness by witness, listen and think about all the testimony and argument from both sides, and come to a well reasoned decision AFTER the closing arguments are delivered and the case goes to jury. Or, maybe, they're just bigots and haters too. Like George.

Thanks again for your OP - Happy to K&R.

And that seems OK since it was Florida and he was black. I do not think Americans should be living with fears like that.

I hope the attention this is getting helps to shine the light on the racism in that city. Light helps change things for the better.

received the bloody injuries because I remember the first picture of him showed him getting out of a patrol car with no injuries. I would hate to think one of the police officers bloodied him so he could use the blows as reason of self defense.

and injured himself..

just sayin'

And it's sure not "punks" like some of these low post "members" claim they heard.

It's coons, plain as day.

I'm scared that If my children are followed by some strange man, they have no options. What do I tell them? If your chased, don't run, cause you'll look suspicious? I'm pissed that the young man did everything I teach my kids and relatives to do, and still died. And the killer is blaming the victim.
He ran to evade him, he tried to hide, used short sentences; " why are you following me?", he yelled for help, finally he fought for his life. Perfect procedure, that child knew how to follow guidelines. Zimmerman refused to do so.
How is that Trayvons fault? We know teenage boys are sometimes abducted for sexual purposes.
Remember Ben Ownby and Shawn Hornbeck? I think he was worried about that.
How can people defend the actions of a child killer?

Righteous rant! And I will add that if I had mixed race kids, grandkids, etc. I would be worried sick everytime they left the house.

I was indignant when I first heard about this murder back in the beginning. The fact that the cops let the 'crazy ass cracker' skip in the first place made me sick to my stomach. That was the first clue that this was a 'racial' thing. I'd never heard anything about the 'coon's remark and can't believe I missed it. He definitely says it! That just makes it worse (if possible?) and makes all the powers that be seem even more prejudice.

Excellent 'rant' although I would just call it the truth.