...I agree. Your Christ is better than that and most of "us" know it.

how the hell did he get associated with such freaks these days which claim to preach His message?

And the Spanish Inquisition among others.

Jesus has been manipulated into a icon of rich, selfish power ever since Paul made him into a symbol.

Paul of Tarsus killed the message and turned it into a business...

....is whose hands Jesus was loathe to leave his church in the hands of. When he died, Mary Madelene had to flee for her life because Paul and Peter both wanted her dead because she didn't fit in with their plans for the church. Because she was Christ's favorite, rumored wife. Their legacy made her a whore and sullied the love she had with Christ. I will never not believe that she was the true heir of Jesus's legacy, she and her children. This is why I cannot reconcile these modern day "Christians" and their patriarchal bullshit. They have made God in THEIR image when Jesus was someone they would never have in their church.

Last edited Thu Feb 16, 2012, 03:31 AM - Edit history (1)

a young woman who had been raised in a very strict fundamentalist church in rural Missouri, came to talk to me. She was very stressed, because she loved my class and really liked me as a teacher, but she felt afraid of me. Her parents and church had warned her that Satan would not appear to her as something ugly and scary, but rather as something appealing, but that she would know it was Satan because whoever or whatever it was would tempt her to question her faith and the things she had been taught to believe by her parents and her church.

According to the warnings she had received before leaving for college, I was a manifestation of Satan.

Understand that I never in any way attempt to question people's religion or to challenge it in my classes. I don't have a right to use my classroom or my authority to impose my own beliefs (or my lack of belief) on my students. The problem was that she really liked me and she admired the way I acted toward others. (I try to be kind and helpful wherever I can. I am very maternal and nurturing.) As she explained it to me, the fact that my behavior was more “Christian” than the behavior of anyone in her church, even though I was not a Christian or at all religious, caused her to begin questioning some of the things her parents and her church elders had been saying her whole life (including the claim that people like me would be damned for eternity).

But since I was “appealing” and, though not directly or intentionally, I was causing her to question her church and the religious authorities in her life, that meant I was exactly what they had warned her Satan would be.

I told her that I didn’t believe I was Satan or an agent of Satan, but that if she spent too much time around me there really was a good chance that she might end up questioning her faith—not because I would directly argue against it, but because I would encourage her to read a lot and do a lot of thinking on her own, without the constraints imposed by those who had been in control of her life up to that point.

Crystal ended up taking 3 classes from me, and in fact her faith was modified over her years in college. She never stopped being a strong believer in Christianity, but she gradually moved toward a more tolerant version of faith than the one practiced by her family and her community at home.

But I have never forgotten the conversation in which she tearfully explained that according to her faith, I was Satan himself (!)—or at the very least, a manifestation of his power in the world—and that the evidence of my evil nature and intent was the fact that despite not being religious, I behaved in a way that was more “Christian” than anything she saw practiced by those in her church who so loudly proclaimed their Christian faith and, especially, their unchallengeable right to speak for Christ.

IOW, I the very fact that I was "good" was the evidence that I must be evil incarnate. Wrap your minds around that if you can!

I know of this situation in a lot of variations. That's why I think that right wing xtianity in the u.s. is a very large cult.

God has set up a really good deal for himself. You have to believe, without question, in him and his infinite wisdom, power and glory. And if you do ANYTHING to question all that stuff, you are a blasphemer. You can't test him, cause if you do; you are a blasphemer. If somebody comes along that DOES question him and they are nice, they are Satan and you are supposed to run like hell.

It's a pretty good gig.

and teaching them. A good teacher, like you, if what you claim is true (and why wouldn't it be?) has the obligation to teach in such a way that your students eventually question everything on their own.

You Satan you! Your evil trick and intent is to get young people to think for themselves! Gottcha!! LOL!

of subjects at all levels, and for 18 years (until my own kids left home for college) I ran a home daycare as well, raising 37 children (my 2 and 35 others). I considered my babysitting gig to be a “teaching” job, too, and took very seriously my responsibility as the babies’ and little kids’ teacher.

I continued to teach college the whole time, using a regular substitute babysitter for the 12 hours/week I had to be in class. I held office hours during the 2 weekday evenings and alternating weekends that my kids were at their dad's house, and I often had my students come to my home during daycare hours for conferences. When that happened, I would have my regular daycare sub entertain the kids while I worked with the student--often with various babies or toddlers crawling in and out of our laps the whole time. The college kids loved it! Many had younger siblings that they missed and were glad for a chance to wallow in little kids.

I have often said, only half jokingly, that teaching is my “religion”! Certainly I consider it a vocation rather than just a job. I knew by the time I was 4 years old that I would be a teacher, and whenever I played school with my 3 older siblings, I was always the teacher, even when they were in school and I was still too young to have started school. My older sister, who is a nurse, always knew from an equally early age that she would be a nurse. I think that sometimes people know almost from the moment they become aware of themselves as individuals exactly what sort of work they are meant to do.

since you were 4 years old.

Congratulations on such a long run and many, many successes I hope!!

...and you spotlight one of religion's convenient traps.

You're supposed to believe all of this nonsense and ignore the contradictions and hypocrisy--and anyone
who dares to ask questions--is Satan.

So--believe it all, even if you have to suspend reality in order to believe things that make absolutely no
sense whatsoever--and if you even entertain the idea of questioning any of it--well, that's just a big
old devil working his evil on you.

I am saddened that so many human beings live their lives this way.

I love the tenants of many religions. Peace, love, compassion, selflessness. However, what is practiced, especially
in Christianity--are not these things. I see intolerance, hatred, hypocrisy, bitterness and people who use religion
to position themselves as superior than others who don't have it.

You were pivotal in this girl's life. You most likely catalyzed very big changes within her. I had a professor
like you. Before I met him I had been indoctrinated into Catholicism (including a lifetime of private, religious
schools). I was taught to hate gay people, taught to loathe the poor, and taught to have contempt for people
who didn't have money--because they were lazy. My father was so conservative that he was against the Americans
With Disabilities Act because it mandated that he make the bathrooms in his business handicap accessible. He
didn't want the government telling him what he could or couldn't do.

I left home very closed minded and pretty much emotionally stunted. My professor didn't knock down my beliefs. He
just challenged us to think and he made clear that beliefs are not facts. He wanted us to cherish any faith that we
had--because faith is personal and entrenched in our own worldview. He wasn't knocking faith, but he helped us to
understand that faith and fact are two different things. Powerful stuff---when you've been raised in the dark for years.

This professor changed my entire life. He got the ball rolling. I've never told him any of this. So thank you--for helping
young people to think. The seeds you planted in her (and others) will grow and live on in her--and probably change her
life (and the lives of others) in ways that you will never realize.

Very nice.

.

in students' lives that makes teaching worthwhile. The pay is low (especially for adjuncts like me--I am full time, but not tenure track), the workload is heavy, and the conditions are often difficult. Yet if we take our work seriously and don't trip out on power and authority--as admittedly some teachers do, though fewer than many people assume--we can really make a difference in a student's life.

It is always a special pleasure to hear from students whose life I have affected for the better. If you still have any way to contact that professor, you should. It would mean the world to him.

A few years ago I got an email from a student I'd taught in 1973. He was in remission from a cancer he had not been expected to survive. When he went into remission, he devoted himself to using the unexpected reprieve to contact people who had made a positive difference in his life and let them know how they had affected him.

That email was one of the highlights of that year for me!

Education is BAD. It makes people question what they believe, it makes them think for themselves, it makes them much less easy to CONTROL.

That's what religion is, control. And religious leaders do not like it when their control is questioned.

My oldest will start college this year if we can afford it. I hope he gets teachers like you

He is one.

I confess to a certain respect for the socialist rabble rouser in the NT. I have no respect for the one that is spoken of in most pulpits and all "Christian" television.

The one in the New Testament is the actual one.
Prosperity Gospel and all the rest are heresies.
What I dislike most is how His Words have been used to make folks hate one another.
That isn't how it is supposed to be.

"What I dislike most is how His Words have been used to make folks hate one another".

Deal?

If you're calling Christ a myth, you shouldn't be so incurious.

He's sure had a lot of effect on the world over the years, and some have misused his words, so I'll mention that before you blame Christendom for anything and everything.

Sorry puddin', but when you're in a reality-based community, ancient mythology will be treated as ancient mythology.

Don't like it? Go somewhere else.

Meanwhile, allow me to share something with you that you may or may not be able to grasp: I believe in The Divine and The Christos or 'Messiah' même. I don't for one moment believe in the 'sky daddy' or 'zombie Jesus' that so many 'Christians' do. In fact, what I believe in is everything you do and so much more. Unfortunately, it's a bit more complicated than I'm feeling like getting into right now. But I will tell you this:

I believe in Everything. That means everything from the beginning of time to the 'end', from where I sit to the edges of the baryonic universe, every dream, thought, idea, breath, orbit, world, life, blade of grass, breeze, subatomic particle, solar system, galaxy, anomaly and everything in between and in every possible universe that might exist before, after, or parallel to our own and every other thing we can't yet see or measure... period.

THAT is my 'God'.

And it is the repository of all things of any kind. In that and that alone, we are immortal.

We are all 'part' of the Divine.

That means the Divine is not and will never be complete until every possibility has been experienced in every way possible. You want to talk about 'eternity'? We have a long way to go before we get there.

The "Jesus" même is a reflection on the solar cycle. Why do you think the 'Sun' was 'born' just after the solstice? The 'son' was born because our ancient predecessors understood that around December 23, the winter in the Northern Hemisphere was past it's peak and the days would soon become longer. The cycle went from 'death' to 'life'.

But I have another position on the Christos... of which there were MANY throughout the ages.

You'd have to express some kind of humility to request that. If you're a true Christian, that won't be difficult for you. I've met only a few true Christians in my 'significant' years.

Keep it classy, sweetheart.

This ain't a Christian board, by any stretch of the imagination...

What glowing "Christian values."

At the risk of being labeled a "Satan":

The Jesus who was called Christos, "Anointed," took his title from middle-Eastern savior-gods like Adonis and Tammuz...
...
It seems Jesus was not one person but a composite of many...Middle-Eastern traditions presented a long line of slain and cannibalized Saviors extending back to prehistory.
...
Like Attis, Jesus was sacrificed at the spring equinox and rose again from the dead on the third day...

Like Orpheus and Heracles, he "harrowed hell" and brought a secret of eternal life...

Modern theologians tend to sidestep the question of whether Jesus was in fact a fable or a real person. In view of the complete dearth of hard evidence, and the dubious nature of the soft evidence, it seems Christianity is based on the ubiquitous social phenomena of credulity...

Early Christians contrasted their sacred stories with "myths", by which they meant false and pagan stories.[1][3][4]

Within contemporary Christianity, the appropriateness of describing Christian narratives as “myth” is a matter of disagreement. George Every claims that the existence of "myths in the Bible would now be admitted by nearly everyone", including "probably all Roman Catholics and a majority of Protestants".[5] As examples of Biblical myths, Every cites the creation account in Genesis 1 and 2 and the story of Eve's temptation.[5] A number of modern Christian writers, such as C.S. Lewis, have described elements of Christianity, particularly the story of Christ, as "myth" which is also "true".[6][7][8] However, other Christian authors assert that Christian narratives should not be categorized as "myth". Opposition to the term "myth" stems from a variety of sources: the association of the term "myth" with polytheism,[9][10][11] the use of the term "myth" to indicate falsehood or non-historicity,[9][10][12][13][14] and the lack of an agreed-upon definition of "myth".[9][10][14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mythology

If you want to start a trolling thread about how you disbelieve, then do so.

Jesus may have lived, we don't really know, only have fables. IF he did live more than likely he was a carpenter who told good stories.

The character Jesus in the stories seems like a nice enough fellow, not at all like the gay-hating, war-loving, pro-death-penalty-for-anyone-who-doesn't-vote-Republican guy that I hear about from politicians.

Cusack could have picked Hamlet or Clark Kent, characters who didn't exist in real life, but do exist in an imaginary way. Why limit his choices to real people? Just admit it, you're prejudiced against imaginary people!

Once again, this ain't a Christian board, no matter how much you wish it to be.

Bless your little heart....





Though one may perceive that statement as dismissive, petulant and minimizing; its intent is equivalent with calling religion a mythology Accurate? Perhaps-- but quite possibly as dismissive, petulant and minimizing to other people as telling someone "bless your little heart".

I imagine the accuracy of both statements are justified and rationalized every day by many people. I also imagine both statements carry the precise same weight of sincerity.


However I do recognize that for many people, the intent to belittle others holds much more weight than the words of logic or the blessings we often hide behind.

second-
I'm sure that at least half of religous folks are sincere in their belief system as well. That's the difference between Frothy and the Newt.

third-
Yes, it is a mythology, research the word. And if calling it such hurts somebody's sensibilities then good, we have something to talk about. It's time we start using factual evidence about our little planet and the rest of the Universe in these conversations and hopefully people will start to get it. On our little planet, humans, came up with fantastic stories to describe human kind, our World and why we are here. The cool thing is, these days we have a shitload of bitchin' technology. We can see light being pulled into the black hole in the center of our galaxy. We can observe supernovas millions of light years away. We can fly humans into fucking space, and look back and see what the hell is around our planet. (No gates made in China LOL)

We don't need these stupid myths to guide our lives anymore. We have a lot of the answers more ignorant humans thousands of years ago were perplexed by. Imagine what science will discover in the next hundred years. It took a while but eventually we figured out no, you don't need to do a ritual for it to rain Someday we may be able to control that rain. (Aside from what the dungeon folks believe )

Woo begets woo, I guess.

I've heard about Charlie Sheen but I didn't think Cusack was one.

I found Sharon Stone and Kevin Smith, but no Cusack.

Pos hoc ergo prompter hoc.

first one I've seen today...

A few decades ago John Cuzack was in a beat up old Pontiac doing cookies next to Burnham Harbor in Chicago my buddy had his boat tied up to the peir , John Cusack lost control of the car and crash onto my buddies boat and pier and when the police arrived they announced to my buddy that they were going to cover this up and nobody was going to hear about John Cuzack smashing his car in to my buddies boat with two underage girls who were drunk in the car , in the end my buddy got about $130,000 from the event

Now we all call John Cuzak "Larry's sugar daddy"

Just thought I'd share that story

Who were you talking about?

Maybe you have some gossip site link to prove your smear?

if for no other reason than it has to really piss off the members of the suburban mega-churches.

and I've said for years that while I won't allow Yahweh to play in my sandbox because he's a mean, selfish, bully, I do allow Jesus in my pantheon because he was one cool dude who really got it.

I'm WHERE? Where the heck is Syracuse and why am I making a movie here?

http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story/Hollywood-hype-takes-over-Syracuse/3ts-n41VgkiIIy-tsUfeAA.cspx

... well he better save himself.
From the gory glory seekers
Who'll use his name in death

- Ian Anderson

If you can do that with Jesus (I think you probably can) then fine.